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  1. #1

    cant break ~2400 dps

    as the title says; im still struggling trying to break the 2500 dps mark.

    I'm hit capped, 2k Spellpower, and running 56/0/15;

    ive got roughly 95% Haunt uptime (only falls off when i have to move/get silenced/etc), 88-95% DoT uptime on all my DoTs (Curse of Agony being my big offender), and i just cannot seem to break 2500 dps in raids.

    I dont really know what else i could be doing; 90-95% uptime is about the best you can realisticaly hope for on DoT uptime given lag, not clipping, etc...

    i see lots of locks posting much higher numbers with this spec, and i just cant figure out how theyre getting them...

    i also see locks saying they have 2300-2400 spellpower, and im just not seeing how they get that, either, not and remain hit capped or have any real crit. Ive researched the items on Wowhead and most upgrades for me are less than 10 spellpower (other than a few slots where ive got some good blues that could do with upgradeing) - no way it totals up to another 400 spellpower.

    any thoughts?

    is it just raid makeup (no shaman totem, no boomkin) making up the difference... because i am sick of seeing the frostfire mage standing next to me press two buttons in gear that isnt even within 20% of mine and faceroll his way to 4500 dps....

  2. #2

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Could you post your armory or at least also your crit and haste stats, maybe link your spec.

  3. #3
    High Overlord
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    Oct 2007
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    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Is there any good addon to measure realtime dps please?

  4. #4

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul
    i also see locks saying they have 2300-2400 spellpower, and im just not seeing how they get that, either, not and remain hit capped or have any real crit.
    I've got over 2000 spellpower completely unbuffed, over 2400 with armor and felhunter out, over 3000 raidbuffed (with elem sham, about 300 hit, 18% crit w/o moonkin aura or totems, and 535 haste). I do over 5k dps on fights like patchwerk, and yes, I am dependent on spriest and elem sham to be hitcapped.

    If you can't get over 2400 dps you must be doing something very wrong, i did way over that with 70's gear @ 80.

  5. #5

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Dyson, with all respect, I fail to see how your post helps at all.

    At least reply with your spec, your rotation, armory link.


  6. #6

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Hmm what is your rotation? Maybe you arnt putting in a specific rotation?

    DoTimer is a great addon to show your dot timers...

    My rotation is SB -> Haunt -> UA -> Immolate -> CoA -> Corr -> SL

    On tank spank fight I can get to 5k dps (Being Patchwerk)

    On a normal fight where you have to move etc its usually between 4-4.5k

  7. #7

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    0/41/30

    That's the answer to your question.

  8. #8

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Korah
    Hmm what is your rotation? Maybe you arnt putting in a specific rotation?

    DoTimer is a great addon to show your dot timers...

    My rotation is SB -> Haunt -> UA -> Immolate -> CoA -> Corr -> SL

    On tank spank fight I can get to 5k dps (Being Patchwerk)

    On a normal fight where you have to move etc its usually between 4-4.5k
    I have been having an easier rotation with SL -> glyphed CoA, just when SL falls off and GCD is done you can directly put up CoA saving you another random DoT time fall off.

  9. #9

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    you can Armory Kagthul; there's only two of them, and one is a lowbie alt that isnt mine.

    US Servers, obviously; also, i dont do 25 man raids.

    I was speaking from a 10 man perspective, so my bad there.

    I dont log out in PvE gear though; so the armory wont help you really there, and i dont have time to switch before i have to leave for work here in about 2 minutes.

    Usually I throw SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > Corruption > Agony > SL > Haunt; then try to throw Shadowbolts in there (and just not have the time; im reading Shadowbolts as less than 25% of my dps, and i throw one whenever i have time)

    also, im sorta lost on where to get upgrades; most of the gear that is "upgrades" is a significant loss of hit/crit to gain spellpower; (thats why im having trouble breaking 2k spellpower) - again, 10 man loot only, since i dont get to do 25 mans (and dont really want to)

    sorry to cut this short but i need to get going..

  10. #10

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Well dude, shadow bolt should be about 50% of your total damage.
    Try going 53/0/18, replace hit rating gems with spell power ones, and drop immolate from your rotation, it will leave you more time to hit with shadow bolts and keep shadow embrace up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul

    Usually I throw SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > Corruption > Agony > SL > Haunt; then try to throw Shadowbolts in there (and just not have the time; im reading Shadowbolts as less than 25% of my dps, and i throw one whenever i have time)

  11. #11

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that affliction locks still priorize spell power over crit any day. If am wrong correct me.

    Keep the said hypothesis, Kagthul you keep mentionning you could upgrade you spell power, but only by losing spell crit or spell hit. I personnaly would certainly lower my crit for more spell power. (to an extent obviously...)


  12. #12

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Don't read these forums and ask why you aren't matching others. Most people who post here are in 25 man gear, have raid comp support and are flasked to pad the numbers. Go E-peen! Keep in mind, a 25 man geared person will do significantly more dps than a 10 man geared person. The gear is a full tier higher in quality, which equates to about 8-10 points higher in every stat. Multiply that per piece, factor scaling and you have a nice chunk right there.

    Your "rotation" for affliction seems fine. Your uptimes are great. There has to be something missing from the raid to push you a bit higher.

    Aside from that, its much more important to compare yourself to the rest of the DPS of the raid you are in.

    I have similar gear to you based on your description, but I run 0/41/30 with the imp out. In a 10 man with only hit support I can hit 2600, non flasked. Add heroism and it goes up to around 3k. I lose to our best hunter by 2-3% total Damage per boss most times, i lose by 1% or less to our best warrior,Spriests, and mage occassionaly. They are geared and competant as well. I have 2047 SP w/ armor and imp out, 35% crit and hit capped, 8% haste. It may even be time for me to switch to /30/40 +1 but I can wait till I am full epic to try that.

    The gap opens the more we gear, because only affliction has very good scaling atm, and if you have another affliction lock in the run 1 of you won't have shadow embrace due to the bug.

  13. #13

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Yeah compare yourself to the rest of your raid, If the rest of the raid is sitting around 2400 youve nothing to worry about but only to get better gear

    Yes once you hit the cap (Taking into consideration SP, Boomkin and Dreani) go for +spell over crit anyday.

    Try using flasks, food, and spellstone and that rotation your using is fine but I wouldnt drop Immol out of the rotation but thats my opinion...

    You will have less damage in 10man than 25man no doubt about it... You won't have all the buffs and replenishments that come along with a good 25man balanced group. Tbf I wouldnt worry to much about breaking 2400 dps if your doing 10mans, if you can take a boss down thats good enuf

    Also try get a group together for 25man if you can possibly - you will be impressed with the difference in dmg ^^

  14. #14

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    K I can give you one suggestion that might help. I played a destro lock in the old game and everyone kept claiming that hit rating was important, you had to be hit capped...but I wasn't and I was constantly ahead of those that had more hit...so I'd suggest you get rid of some of that hit gear and replace it with crit..or haste, seeing as how the new locks arent based on one shot...especially if youre doing haunt rather than spamming the chaos bolt or incinerate....so don't buy into that hit bullshit, because its just not true, especially if youre not in the destruction tree....add more haste and crit

  15. #15

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Absynthe
    Well dude, shadow bolt should be about 50% of your total damage.
    Try going 53/0/18, replace hit rating gems with spell power ones, and drop immolate from your rotation, it will leave you more time to hit with shadow bolts and keep shadow embrace up.

    Bad advice, keep your hit it's the most important stat till you are capped and immolate is a great DoT.
    Shadow bolt ends up with me to be around 20~30% of my dps.

    Even if you do gem outside of hit, take spell power, it's a far better stat than haste or crit cause with affliction the stats of haste and crit still don't scale as well as other classes.

  16. #16

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Man i think you didn't read well what i wrote.
    In his build he skipped the hit rating talents for both affliction and destruction trees.
    I suggested in keeping those and gaining some more spell power from sockets.
    Haste scales pretty well, you will notice it a lot when using drain soul under 25% of boss life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Offsprngr
    Bad advice, keep your hit it's the most important stat till you are capped and immolate is a great DoT.
    Shadow bolt ends up with me to be around 20~30% of my dps.

    Even if you do gem outside of hit, take spell power, it's a far better stat than haste or crit cause with affliction the stats of haste and crit still don't scale as well as other classes.

  17. #17

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    I didn't inspect his talents cause he was in pvp gear anyway.

  18. #18

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    ok a few things

    must have probably been said but i havent read every post.

    Sites to read:
    1) Clearly and Fallenman L2Warlock: http://l2warlock.blogspot.com/
    2) Elitist Jerks: how to raid as affliction

    make sure you check those out. lots of good advice.


    Its hard to gage your DPS since you are in PVP gear at the moment; but if you want to raid as Affliction here are some things to remember

    1) you will need a good Addon to keep track of your dots. I use dotimer, works very well
    2) NEVER clip your dots (which means casting a new dot before its done ticking). You might want to practice on target dummies. For example, if there is 1 sec left on Immolate or UA, then cast it, it will tick its last tick as you refresh it. thats what you want to aim for.

    the only time I clip a dot is if i am moving or will be out of range and want to make sure i maximize DPS during that time. Such situational examples are the ice blocks from saph or the vortex from malygos

    3) keep Haunt up 100% of the time. Thats the only spell you WANT to clip. remember its got travelling time, so unless you are very close to your target remember it will take some time for it to reach your target. Which means that during that time it might drop off and then you will lose 20% from your shadow dots.. thats a HUGE dps drop. So make sure you keep it up. Plus the extra heals it offers help out healers (to a certain point) and i time my lifetaps in concesequence.

    4) remember that SBs are your filler spell. Only cast at first to get shadow embrace up and then only when all your dots are ticking.

    5) ive seen a lot of discussion aboutSoul Drain at 25% but personally im having issues on keeping dots and not clipping my Soul Drain ticks, so for now i still use SBs while i practice it.

    the rest im sure you can figure out for yourself from the 2 sites. if you have questions/comments let me know ill be happy to help.

    Oh and, do you guys raid with more than 1 Aff lock? if so make sure you get your Shadow Embrace up ASAP so that way the other lock refreshes it for you and not the other way around, its a 5% DPS increase. We have 2 raiding locks, and both specced differently and it works well for us. I'm normally around 3.5-4k on most fights (on average id have to check WWS reports to make sure) but i do finish 1st on patchwerk almost all the time with 5k+ dps, and break 6k on Thaddius.
    Ishammael - Undead Warlock - Cho'Gall

    pew pew lazers!

  19. #19

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Shadow bolt ends up with me to be around 20~30% of my dps.

    Even if you do gem outside of hit, take spell power, it's a far better stat than haste or crit cause with affliction the stats of haste and crit still don't scale as well as other classes.
    Agreed. Although SB DPS is a bit higher than 20-30%, most of my DPS comes from Corr/COA/Siphon i believe

    once you are hit cap, go all out for +Spell Damage.

    Like i just posted read up on Elititst Jerks for the pure DPS value of Stats (SP, Hit, Crit etc) for a Aff Lock. Its all about the Spell power baby! (well after cap that is!)
    Ishammael - Undead Warlock - Cho'Gall

    pew pew lazers!

  20. #20

    Re: cant break ~2400 dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamb
    I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that affliction locks still priorize spell power over crit any day. If am wrong correct me.

    Keep the said hypothesis, Kagthul you keep mentionning you could upgrade you spell power, but only by losing spell crit or spell hit. I personnaly would certainly lower my crit for more spell power. (to an extent obviously...)

    its hit and crit, really. the pieces in general have both hit and crit on them. and with no Spriest or Boomkin in the raid, i cant afford not to be hard capped on hit.

    ive tried dropping Immo out of my rotation for more shadowbolts; it was a dps loser. the DPCT on Immo is just too high.

    I always throw haunt as soon as the cooldown is up; you never want that to fall off.

    as for the guy who said that hit isnt that important... thanks for your opinion and for trying to help, i dont want to seem ungrateful: but i dont believe that for a moment. Ive been in too many situations where not being hit capped = less dps. And given that before i managed to get hit-capped again in WotLK, i managed to wipe the raid twice with a "missed" soulshatter, ill never leave my hit cap in the hands of talents that dont help Demo spells. (and this was when i was at 15.5% hit or so)

    ill try to log out in my PvE gear this time.

    I know there are some upgrades that are no brainers, and they will help some:

    T7 shoulders are a no-brainer
    need to replace my legs - using T6 still - but im finding few upgrades outside of T7.5; the T7 legs seem marginal at best.

    Thanks for all of the help so far guys

    Kagthul

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