Avoidance? What's that...

[dotsdotsdots]

Sorry, that might sound stupid, but I read this term in every tanking thread, but I'm not exactly sure what it means.

People write:

this is my armory
unbuffed:
20.05% dodge.
19.25% parry.
540 defense.
24.8k health unbuffed


so pretty much talents included ~50% avoidance

~50% avoidance...before I though it's just another term for dodge, but that can't be right.

As I'm writing this reply it came to my (smart) brain that it might be the number, if you combine dodge and parry, is that right?
Sorry, for wasting forum space with this...

[Aknot]

I read your other thread (Pally tank so I like to keep an eye out), why not post a link to your armory? It is a lot easier for people to give you advice if they can see the whole picture.

Just a suggestion.

Wont delete it... I was slow on the uptake you did..

Yes it is the dodge and parry and block and miss added up.

"How Much Do You Need? It can obviously be bit of a balancing act getting all these stats straightened out. Overall a tank can become “block capped” at 102.4% avoidance. This means when dodge, parry, block, and miss add up to 102.4% every incoming attack will be affected by one of those stats. This is not easy to do, but remember to take into account class abilities. Paladins for example have a fairly easy time of reaching this because holy shield gives 30% extra block rating, and it is possible to keep it up 100% of the time. If you do reach the block cap then it is time to stop stacking block and replace it with the superior dodge. Ideally just stack as much avoidance as you can, because it rocks. Just strike a balance, some of it is more effective, some is easier to stack.

A few things to keep in mind are that there are diminishing returns on these stats, so taking one of them way above the others may not be your best bet. However when in doubt dodge is almost always your best option for an avoidance statistic. This topic goes pretty deep so feel free to read around for more info, I am just giving you the basics here."

From: http://projectlore.com/blog/tanking-...t-2-avoidance/

[Sergejsvk]

Dodge + Parry + mob missc hance (5%) + miss chance from Def (and talents)

[Amgyn]

Avoidance is a cumulative stat that indicates your ability to not get hit. (ie completly negate enemy damage)

dodge, parry, miss are all or nothing... you either dodge or you don't.

block/armor absorb damage....

[talitu]

when i talk about my avoidance i mean. dodge+parry+def based miss chance. i dont count mobs miss rate because thats not my avoidance thats just how they work. i dont count block either because its mitigation not avoidance

[Offhand]

Now that other people have cleared up avoidance I'll define it's cousin mitigation.

Mitigation is anything that has you take less damage from an incoming attack but you don't completely avoid it. This includes block (warrior/paladin), armor, magic resistances, bone shield, ice bound fortitude (or any shield wall type effect), etc.

[Raptorg]

when i talk about my avoidance i mean. dodge+parry+def based miss chance. i dont count mobs miss rate because thats not my avoidance thats just how they work. i dont count block either because its mitigation not avoidance

Everything that prevents you from being hit, is avoidance..

Be it mob mechanics or not.

[underdogba]

There is no real good answer as to how much avoidance you need.

For heroics and trash tanking, a lot of avoidance is generally good because it tends to reduce a lot of damage in trash pulls.

In terms of raid progression, avoidance should only really be stacked for "farm" content, where you're likely to be running with a smaller amount of healers. For real "progression"-type content, you're going to do much better stacking effective health (i.e., stamina and armor), because it's more important in those situations to maximize the amount of time you can survive without a heal landing even during unlucky non-avoidance streaks.

(With warriors and paladins, since shield block value is so high now, avoidance kind of starts bordering on effective health in the sense that pushing all normal hits off the table would substantially increase your mitigation, but that doesn't necessarily really contradict the central ideas of effective health theory).

I forget who exactly posted it, but there was a good way to phrase this situation I saw on tankspot -- an avoidance-stacked tank tends to be a more efficient healing target, but an effective health-stacked tank tends to be a more forgiving healing target.

(Edit: I didn't realize that this was the DK forum when originally posting. I'm not totally knowledgeable about DK tanking mechanics, but it's entirely possible that Blizz took high avoidance gearing into account in balancing b/c DK's can't equip a shield, so take the above with a grain of salt in that case).

[Offhand]

I forget who exactly posted it, but there was a good way to phrase this situation I saw on tankspot -- an avoidance-stacked tank tends to be a more efficient healing target, but an effective health-stacked tank tends to be a more forgiving healing target.

This. Basically, you're giving your healer time to move out of the fire and get the heal off.

[Totschlager]

Now that other people have cleared up avoidance I'll define it's cousin mitigation.

Mitigation is anything that has you take less damage from an incoming attack but you don't completely avoid it. This includes block (warrior/paladin), armor, magic resistances, bone shield, ice bound fortitude (or any shield wall type effect), etc.

Thank you for explaining this. I went through most of TBC as a pally tank combining dodge, parry, miss, AND block and calling it all avoidance. Kinda wish someone would have corrected me whenever I said I had 104% total avoidance with holy shield. I guess it was just easier than saying avoidance plus block.

But actually it makes sense, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all. I never realized I had been using the incorrect term for block this whole.

[dotsdotsdots]

Wow, great replies. Thanks guys. Seems like my threads just the visited by the smart guys

Is the miss-rate of a mob always the same? Or does it depend on his level? I guess it depends on the lvl...

[Offhand]

The miss level depends on your relative level to what your fighting. I believe a raid boss (lvl 83) has a 4.4% chance to miss you.

Miss chance is increased via defense however. Reaching 540 defense nets about 5% more miss.

Hence 20% parry, 20% dodge, 540 def = ~50% avoidence

[Raptorg]

The miss level depends on your relative level to what your fighting. I believe a raid boss (lvl 83) has a 4.4% chance to miss you.

Miss chance is increased via defense however. Reaching 540 defense nets about 5% more miss.

Hence 20% parry, 20% dodge, 540 def = ~50% avoidence

To be precise, 540 gives exactly 5.6% miss.

So against a raidboss, when capped you always have at least 10% chance to be missed(and not the 9.4% you seem to imply)

[Advahama]

I'm aiming for 75% avoidance, then will focus entirely on Health. Why 75%? It's a large number, and when I turn on Lichborne, I will have 15 seconds of invincibility against physical attacks. With cooldown rotations, I will generally have 80%+ avoidance, or will just be taking 50% less damage.

DK tanks will be more forgiving on healers once patch hits, and will retain all of their high avoidance. Will be exciting.

[Deleted]

hmmm, first i thought that avoidance is only parry + dodge. Now it appears that i have more than 52% xD with no blade barrier

[Offhand]

That's not an entirely bad idea, but remember that all avoidance stats are subject to the big evil DR (that's diminishing returns).

Simply put, all avoidance stats do not award an increase in parry, dodge, or miss in a linear manner, but a logarithmic one. For parry and dodge, this is increasingly noticeable after about 20% for each stat. What I'm saying is, each point invested in +dodge, +parry, or +def will net less then the point before.

Now, I know what you're saying, "But def rating awards parry, dodge, AND miss, how does it effect DR?" The simple answer is that it will effect all three stats, so DR being equal, def pumps everything up equally. Miss, is a funky stat in that is only increased via def, doesn't follow the same logarithmic function (no of them have the exact same function, but dodge and parry are similiar). It's extremely hard to get a solid graph for miss because of the low amount of def rating available at the moment.

Now looking at my paladin, my defensive stats are as follows: 542 def (meaning 10.06% miss chance), 23% dodge chance, 17% parry chance, 17% block chance (sans holy shield). Combine these three with my miss chance nets me 67% chance to completely avoid or block an oncoming attack. If I up holy shield, that nets me 30% straight up block chance for a 97% chance to avoid or block and attack. Now running an old macro made before DR was implemented gives me the numbers 73.5% and 103.5% respectively. Reaching 102.4% avoid/block still holds meaning for warriors and paladins but we're just doing the basics here and the 102.4 number does not apply to DK's (as it's unattainable).

Now there is a 5.4% chance that I will take a physical blow fully. Any of the above mentioned stats could close that gap further but what would be the easiest (or more importantly, effective) way to do this? Well, just looking at the numbers, either parry or block rating would be your best bet. Block value is not effected by DR, but it is an inferior stat and has no use once paladins hit the 102.4% value

[Whippingboy]

I think you meant block rating not block value there Offhand. Block rating has and will from the looks of it always scale faster than dodge or parry in the pure percentages. Up until the patch just before Lich King it wasn't all that great to stack in terms of survival as block value was so low before. Now with talents and the way str increases block value things are kind of in the air for a pally and a warrior. I like getting 4k+ crit blocks when I have shield block active.

[mitchimitch]

Block value is not effected by DR, but it is an inferior stat and has no use once paladins hit the 102.4% value

block value is probably our best stat once we hit block cap since 1 block value = 1 effective health or whatever its called.

[Offhand]

I think you meant block rating not block value there Offhand. Block rating has and will from the looks of it always scale faster than dodge or parry in the pure percentages. Up until the patch just before Lich King it wasn't all that great to stack in terms of survival as block value was so low before. Now with talents and the way str increases block value things are kind of in the air for a pally and a warrior. I like getting 4k+ crit blocks when I have shield block active.

Yes, my mistake. Damn naming conventions.

block value is probably our best stat once we hit block cap since 1 block value = 1 effective health or whatever its called.

Yes, block value is a worthwhile stat after hitting the block cap, I worded it incorrectly. However, BV is a scarce stat on most tanking gear as any non-set gear is usually intended for use amongst all three plate tanking classes (there are a few exceptions I'm sure). For me, there's also plenty of room for more parry as well. Seeing as warriors/pallies get BV from strength and DK's get parry from strength, the numbers will definitely be different and DR for parry will be more set in on a DK then it is for me, but the general principles remain the same.

In other words, I'd rather have gear with more +parry rating and +block rating instead of strength right now.