Thread: Guardian Spirit

  1. #1

    Guardian Spirit

    So after the "fix" to Guardian Spirit was implemented, I've noticed the simultaneous killing blows don't even allow the 50% maximum health heal to even proc and the target just dies flat out.

    Is anyone else seeing this?


  2. #2

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    I've noticed in PvP it doesn't seem to work at all when I cast it on myself (haven't tested it on other people). In PvE i haven't notice it either, but i don't usually cast it and it hardly ever gets the chance to proc when i do. It might have been nerfed last patch idno, i don't follow up to closely on patch notes.


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Ap%C3%A1che

  3. #3

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    They changed it in 3.0.8 so that it no longer procs multiple times within a tick. After the hotfix two days later, it also works very well on bears; it reliably saved our beartank on Sarth 3drakes yesterday.

    But I did notice that the poor mage-under-multiple-fire during yesterdays Malygos kill still got killed in one tick died despite having GS on him. So I don't think it's quite bug free yet.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Re: Guardian Spirit

    Managed to get myself trapped in the middle of trash pack due to the tank pulling them onto me, so I cast spirit on myself. Was hit by WW 3 times for 7k and died without spirit doing anything. Not very impressed by this ability.

  5. #5

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    I haven't noticed a big difference at all. But normally I cast it on the tank when a healer goes down or I notice heals not landing on him/her as much as they should. The Bonus to healing will save the tank more than the 50% HP gain from "death". with my current gear and what not, I have managed 22k crit heals with GS up on the tank.

    I rarely have to use it as a "OH CRAP" button, if that's the case the tank is probably going to bite it anyway after the GS heals him/her so I use it much sooner to get the tank topped off more than a life saver talent. Again, that's just my take on it

  6. #6

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    I have seen it not proc what so ever, the target just dies. -.-
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    But we're worried that logic might not lead to the best game.

  7. #7

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by Serentis
    I haven't noticed a big difference at all. But normally I cast it on the tank when a healer goes down or I notice heals not landing on him/her as much as they should. The Bonus to healing will save the tank more than the 50% HP gain from "death". with my current gear and what not, I have managed 22k crit heals with GS up on the tank.

    I rarely have to use it as a "OH CRAP" button, if that's the case the tank is probably going to bite it anyway after the GS heals him/her so I use it much sooner to get the tank topped off more than a life saver talent. Again, that's just my take on it
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  8. #8

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    What could be nice is to get a confirmation on what this ability is supposed to do.

    First a quite pointer on how I believe damage works in WoW. The game tracks time in discrete time intervals of 0.3 seconds, known as ticks. Everything happening within one tick happens simultaneously. If you are damaged, the damage is not subtracted from your HP total until the end of the tick. Should you get a heal at the same tick as you got damaged, you can end up in this situation:

    time=0.1 sec: Bobby Tank takes 20 million damage
    time=0.2 sec: Bobby Tank is healed by a massively overpowered GHeal for 19 million 999 thousand 999 damage
    time=0.3 sec: Damage is calculated for the last tick, new hp = old HP - 20 mill + 19.999999 mill, resulting in Bobby Tank dropping one HP. Despite being absolutely dead for a very short while, the healing and damage happened at the same tick, and cancelled each other out. Thus Bobby Tank Lives.
    I'm fairly certain this is how it all works, but if anyone have other inputs I'd be delighted to hear your opinoin. Anyway, my real question is how this corresponds with GS. My conjecture of the situation is as follows:

    Random Raider has 200 HP left.
    Priest cast GS on Random Raider

    Within the same tick as GS was applied, random raider takes 500 damage.
    However, GS is not yet really applied or something, and does nothing.
    Random Raider dies.
    I have seen far too often that I cast GS on the tank, but he still die, while my cooldown is consumed. This is what I think is happening. But I'm not 100% certain. It could simply be network lag - but in that case I feel I should be refunded of my cooldown. I am fairly convinced that HP recalculation happens before new buffs are applied, which leads to this behavior.

    New scenario, new issue.

    Random Raider has 200 / 20000 HP left.
    Priest cast GS on Random Raider.
    At least one tick passes, Random Raider spouts wings.

    Random raider takes 500 damage. But he only have 200 HP. GS is a cheat death ability, which lowers incoming damage to 199. His current HP is now 1.
    GS adds a +50% heal to Random Raider's HP bar. This is however not applied immediately.
    Random raider takes another 500 damage. But he only have 1 HP. GS does wonders again, reduce the damage to ensure he does not die - in fact the second blow does no damage. GS is adds another +50%.

    We're done calculating damage. Random raider is a t 1 HP, and definitively alive.

    Then as a bonus, he is rewarded with 2x10000 HP boosts.
    GS proc #1 is calculated, add 10000 HP to Random Raider. He is now at 10001 HP.
    GS proc #2 is calculated, add 10000 HP to Random Raider. He is now at full HP.
    At the end of the tick, Random Raider is now at full health. From one GS. This was how GS worked earlier (my conjecture on the details, but it did definitively proc once per killing blow). This bug was fixed in 3.0.8. But I don't think it was fixed perfectly. This is what I think is happening instead.

    Random Raider has 200 / 20000 HP left.
    Priest cast GS on Random Raider.
    At least one tick passes, Random Raider spouts wings.

    Random raider takes 500 damage. But he only have 200 HP. GS is a cheat death ability, which lowers incoming damage to 199. His current HP is now 1.
    GS adds a +50% heal bonus that will happen later. Cheat death is not allowed to proc again this tick.
    Random raider takes another 500 damage. But he only have 1 HP. He is now at -499 HP.

    We're done recalculating the HP of Random raider. He is at -499 HP. He is flagged as dead.

    Then as a bonus, he is immediately rewarded with a 10000 HP boost.
    GS proc is calculated, add 10000 HP to Random Raider. He is now at 9501 HP.
    But he is still flagged as dead. And thus die.
    So, the big question is - is this how it's supposed to work?
    Is GS supposed to give you invulnerability in one tick? Or vs one blow? How does cheat death for rogues work in this case?
    And either way, the GS healing should apply before death is resolved. Does it do that, or is it just network lag causing us to lose cooldowns for nothing?
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  9. #9

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    This is the spell that made me go Disc. After watching player after player die while having GS on them I just respecced Disc and haven't looked back. Glad to see the spell is still up to its old tricks. Honestly I wouldn't waste the talent points on it anymore now that Divine Providence sucks.

  10. #10

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    I raid on a Paladin so I can't say how it works but it definitely saved our asses in 10m Sarth 3d. Without that cooldown we would not have "of the Nightfall." It sucks if it's buggy and I hope they fix it but I <3 it.

  11. #11

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    Guardian is STILL broken. I cast it twice last night, the +40% healing bonus works fine, but the sacrificing part doesn't work. I'm going to respec out of it, totally worthless if you can't rely on it.

  12. #12

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by blee732
    Guardian is STILL broken. I cast it twice last night, the +40% healing bonus works fine, but the sacrificing part doesn't work. I'm going to respec out of it, totally worthless if you can't rely on it.
    And use that point for what??

    It's a good oh shit extra heals needed button - using that one point anywhere else will NOT get you 15 sec of 40% increased heals.

  13. #13

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    I gues it's a similar bug to the one where PoM will not "save" you in a duel, so you loose while having 4k life left. Kinda sucks.

  14. #14

    Re: Guardian Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by mutantboy
    And use that point for what??

    It's a good oh shit extra heals needed button - using that one point anywhere else will NOT get you 15 sec of 40% increased heals.
    Divine Spirit (mostly b/c i'm hurting for some better regen now). It's definitely hard to give up the 40% heals but I honestly have not seen a single priest with guardian. I've asked every one of them about it and they don't miss it at all.

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