Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewhenn
    Not trying to sound like a jerk, but you have little sympathy from me. Try raid healing the way Holy Paladins have had to, for say.... oh... the last 4 years. For you, that means Flash heal your heart out and no AoE heals. You might see why we complain so much about not having any real AoE healing at all.

    I'd KILL to have anything even near as effective as CoH on a 6 second cooldown.
    There's really no need to be pissy about not having an AoE heal- any half decent Priest or Druid would tell you that COH/WG were OP and sucked the enjoyment out of healing. Do you really think it's fun spamming one button for an entire raid? That was a half viable strategy without the CD and it made life intensely boring. I personally can't wait for the CD- it'll put a 5 million candela spotlight on poor healers who will now finally have to figure out the mechanics behind situational healing. My resto druid is regularly beaten into second place on heal meters by a COH Priest whose Recount shows up to 80% of his healing is COH- it totally takes the fun out of trying to prove yourself as a healer when crap healers can faceroll their way to the top.

    Trust me, Pallies shouldn't want an AOE heal, we should all instead be petitioning to have them completely removed from the game.

  2. #22

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Am I the only one who remembers vanilla healing? When aoe heals consisted of PoH and that was it?

    Seriously, I've healed a ton, and even when they gave us CoH in BC I was not impressed. Too mana intensive and too little healing. Pound-for-pound Holy Nova is a better heal. Look at the numbers, no it's not a smart heal, but if your near the people who need heals you can hit all of them, instead of just 6.

    I understand the concerns coming from those who spammed CoH for all of BC and forgot how to heal intelligently, but come on, I can't be the only one.

    I remember timing 4.5 second greater heals by watching boss animations, and catching tanks just in time. Seriously, learn how to click more then one button.

  3. #23

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluestick
    Am I the only one who remembers vanilla healing? When aoe heals consisted of PoH and that was it?

    Seriously, I've healed a ton, and even when they gave us CoH in BC I was not impressed. Too mana intensive and too little healing. Pound-for-pound Holy Nova is a better heal. Look at the numbers, no it's not a smart heal, but if your near the people who need heals you can hit all of them, instead of just 6.

    I understand the concerns coming from those who spammed CoH for all of BC and forgot how to heal intelligently, but come on, I can't be the only one.

    I remember timing 4.5 second greater heals by watching boss animations, and catching tanks just in time. Seriously, learn how to click more then one button.
    In vanilla WoW, with how the macro system worked, you only had to click one button.

  4. #24

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluestick
    Pound-for-pound Holy Nova is a better heal. Look at the numbers, no it's not a smart heal, but if your near the people who need heals you can hit all of them, instead of just 6.
    Wrong. Only with the Glyph does it start to pass Circle of Healing, and it only hits your party (+pets) not other peoples'. So assuming you have a DK tank, 2 hunters, a frost mage, and your shadowfiend out, sure it can hit 10 if you're all in melee-ish range. But realistically speaking, considering it's still bound by "groups" you're not gonna get more than 5-6 off at best.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  5. #25

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Alright, i just finished my 25 man naxx. For all of those who posted, thx. I read all of it and as i thought there is alot of hate for the coh spamming.. Ill be honest, Most fights tonight i didn't have to use Coh for more then 30-35% of my total healing. On sapphiron though you should of seen me! Spamming Coh and Mending like a real noob! Paladin healer and myself on one side (8-10 dps). I ran oom by the end. So i thought, Could i keep those 8-10 dps up with a 6 second Coh? Answer was pretty simple, Yes. Spam mending, flash heal, and coh once every 6 seconds. Hell yeah ill make it! Ill just be OOM 2 mins earlier .

    My second round of questions:
    1- Should flash heal have a reduce cost?
    2- Make Prayer of Healing a 2 second cast, drop its cost by 1/4.
    3- Increase the amount healed by Coh? (lets say by 25%, would mean 2.5k heals non crit.)
    4- Make Shadow fiend Cooldown a 3 mins one? (untalented)
    5- Buff the Healing Prayer Talent, Lets say 30% total reduction?
    6- Make Hymn of Hope a shorter channel? Make it regen 3-4%? Would be like having an extra shadow fiend.

    Btw for all of you who thought i said ''why didn't i roll a druid'' because i QQ or w/e... Know this: Regrowth (crit)- Nature's Touch (0.5 sec cast) - Swiftmend , when i look at it i don't really see druids as Hots :\
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...h=042014070800

    Anyways, thx for answering.

  6. #26

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyeVII
    1- Should flash heal have a reduce cost?
    Glyphed, it's actually one of Holy's cheapest spells already. It's cheaper in terms of healing / mana than a greater heal. It's more efficient than your average renew. It's faster than most other spells (except PW:Shield and CoH). And it heals for quite a substantial amount. I think flash heal is pretty decent as is.

    2- Make Prayer of Healing a 2 second cast, drop its cost by 1/4.
    PoH is stupidly expensive, I'll give you that. The long cast time is also slightly limiting it somewhat. But neither of these points are really the breaking point of the spell. The major problem is that it only targets your own party, making it very clunky in a raid setting. Change it to healing the nearest 5 damaged people in the raid, imo.

    Heck, change CoH to heal the 5/6 people nearest your CoH cast target. That alone would have solved a lot (but not all) of the OPness CoH has at the moment.

    3- Increase the amount healed by Coh? (lets say by 25%, would mean 2.5k heals non crit.)
    This would make a lot of sense, but as the entire point of the nerf was to limit the raidwide healing output of the spell. I don't see us getting a concession on this. At least CoH is still mostly filling up the HP bars of people you just fortituded. Mostly.

    4- Make Shadow fiend Cooldown a 3 mins one? (untalented)
    Holy Priests do have a serious mana issue, and with the loss of CoH, it will get worse. But noone really likes the shadowfiend, it's just seriously unreliable. If you ask me, blizzard need to do some significant redesign of the entire mana management model. As it is now, no classes (except spamming holypriests) have the slightest remote difficulty with mana as long as there is replenishment present. And if there isn't, most classes (except holypriests, direct healing spamming druids who give away their innervate to priests, boomkins who give away their innervate to priests, and shammies) have some way of compensating that will eliminate the problem by sacrificing cooldowns or dps (viper aspect, JoW/evocation, mana gems/evocation, lifetap, innervate, short cooldown shadowfiend, rapture).

    5- Buff the Healing Prayer Talent, Lets say 30% total reduction?
    Things like this could be done to make the holy tree more mana efficient. Mana efficiency is without a doubt the major issue with holy at the moment, but you don't want to overdo it either. Mana management should be part of the game. It used to be a good tradeoff for the holypriest, sacrificing stability for throughput. But now this will mostly mean excessive overhealing on single targets... sure, we got a talent for turning that overhealing into regen, but ... that's wrong on so many levels.

    6- Make Hymn of Hope a shorter channel? Make it regen 3-4%? Would be like having an extra shadow fiend.
    Our hymns have so many issues going for them that most priests consider them a cruel april fools joke that blizzard forgot to call. For the record, the blood elf racial ability is way better than hymn of hopelessness. There will be a redesign of the hymns, but don't hold your breath. I expect it to come sometime after the summer vacation, personally.

    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    There is only one Legion.
    Posts
    4,032

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    @OP
    As long as PoH is partywise, it's completely useless.
    If you have more than 60-70% of CoH heals at the end of a fight, well you fucking need to learn your rotations.
    Renew/PoM/FH are great and way more useful than our beloved CoH.
    You pointed out the fights were we need the CoH. Loatheb? you Spam CoH at Loatheb? Lol.
    Besides from that fights, anyways, we are assuming that all the others won't need a CoH spam, right? So, where's the bad in it, 10% of all the fights even need a CoH spam. Grobbulus, Gluth (Don't come tell me you need CoH spam for Decimate), Maexxna, Anub'Rekan, Faerlina, Razuvious, Gothik, Heigan, Noth, all of these don't require a CoH spam, and we whine about Malygos and Sapphiron? Oh please...

  8. #28
    Brewmaster moremana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,362

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    My 2 cents...

    This topic is just getting way too old. Its coming, adapt and learn to play without it!

    We are the most versatile healers in the game with druids right behind us imo (some will say they are better, so be it). There are so many ways to heal your party back to full without spamming CoH, at the current state holy is, my 4 year old grandaughter could heal with a priest.

    One thing is, raid healers need to assignments, you can not take 6 healers to a 25 man and just say "aoe heal everyone..CHARGE" which is what alot of raids are doing at the moment.

    The game wasnt designed that way and imo CoH needs this nerf and a maybe a smart heal on PoH and just maybe rework our bouncing ping (PoM) a little, you have a whole set of abilities that warrant the nerf, please stop crying and making us look like we cant heal without spamming one button, if you cant figure out how to heal without CoH you need a skill check! And to the Pally crying about ae heals..get a grip, you werent designed to group heal "Mr Never OOM"! Heal MT and OT like your designed to, if you wanted to group heal you should have rolled another class!
    Build #1 Corsair 350D Case - EVGA 600B PSU - Gigabyte Z97M-D3H - Intel i5-4690k - Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD / WD 1TB - EVGA GTX-760 - 16GB DDR 1600 - Windows 8.1
    Build #2: Aerocool DS Case - EVGA 500B PSU - Gigabyte Z77N-WIFI - Intel i5-3570k - Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD / WD 1TB - EVGA GTX-750Ti - 16GB DDR 2133 - OSX 10.10


    "You are what your life says you are, nothing more, nothing less"


  9. #29

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    This kind of post always makes me chuckle, People QQ because boss encounters are to easy, so they make them a little more challenging by nerfing a few spells or whatever the case maybe. Seriously what do you people want. lol

  10. #30

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    You pointed out the fights were we need the CoH. Loatheb? you Spam CoH at Loatheb? Lol.
    Actually, on loatheb, 1xPoH followed by 2x CoH allows you to heal 10 people easily alone. CoH is a very potent heal on Loatheb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    Besides from that fights, anyways, we are assuming that all the others won't need a CoH spam, right? So, where's the bad in it, 10% of all the fights even need a CoH spam. Grobbulus, Gluth (Don't come tell me you need CoH spam for Decimate), Maexxna, Anub'Rekan, Faerlina, Razuvious, Gothik, Heigan, Noth, all of these don't require a CoH spam, and we whine about Malygos and Sapphiron? Oh please...
    Can you live without CoH? Sure. Will you heal as efficient? Hell no. That's the point of the nerf. The same argument can be made for any of our heals. We can stretch your argument. Can you heal people just with lesser heal? Absolutely. But not very fast, not very efficient. CoH is just that. A very fast and very efficient heal. It's not the golden bullet for every fight, it's not the best heal to use in any situation. But extremely often, it is. Thus why almost all priests agree that it is overpowered.

    It's quite useful on all the fights you mentioned, and especially on trash. Need it? no. Makes my life easier? Yes. Too easy? Arguably yes.

    No priests can spam CoH exclusively, you'd need some 3000 MP5 to sustain that. But a priest trying is healing for two, easily, while it lasts. Holy Priests have that strength, sacrificing reliability for this overdrive button. It's a powerful tradeoff for most priests. But with CoH on a cooldown, our reliability is as bad, but our overdrive gets taken away.

    Is there any particular reason for you to berate fellow priests for using their most efficient heal a lot? If there is, I challenge you to only using lesser heal.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  11. #31

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirLancelittle
    My disclaimer: I healed as a priest in BC, but I play a resto druid now. So I may be a little out of data.

    Mstone accuses some "noob" priest of spamming CoH at the exclusion of there other spells. While, I certainly agree that only casting 2 greater heals for an entire fight is a little extreme, I think the problem was that even very good priests were spamming CoH almost exclusively. After all, if you use it on the right targets it has very good HPM and HPS, meaning it is the best spell to be using(as long as someone isn't about to die). Spamming it means the other healers with less AOE ability can focus more on single targets. This is why I completely understand nerfing it (same concept applies to WG) so priests aren't FORCED to CoH spam.

    My big problem with the nerf is this. CoH is your big 41 point talent and, imo, was originally designed to be spammed. Its relatively low healing and cast time (instant) really make it a spam spell. With only one cast it is a health topper or a "I hope some one else can heal them the rest of the way" spell. Seems like this means a lot of priests will be rarely using it, instead going to PoH for significant group heals. Considering CoH is your 41 point talent, it makes me wonder if a number of priests might respec disc. Many of the priests I know who are holy now, choose holy because of its superior AOE ability, which won't be as obvious once CoH is nerfed.

    As you can tell, I see both positive and negative things about the CoH nerf. I feel like there are other changes could be made to prevent CoH from being used to the exclusion of other spells, without nerfing it as much. I liked a previous poster's idea of allowing CoH spamm for 10 seconds every 3 mins (allowing it to be spammable occasionally, but forcing you to use other spells most of the time). Other options include a debuff (like mage's arcane blast), or increasing the cooldown by a lot (say 45 seconds) but increasing the healing amount.
    I wasn't talking about for a single fight, i was talking about for an entire Naxx clear.

    One of the interesting ideas that was mentioned when talking to a few priest friends, was to put a debuff on the priest that reduces healing done by CoH, that say lasts 10 seconds (or longer) and stacks infinitely (time wont stack, just resets the timer). This would make each consecutive CoH weaker and less mana effecient, but still allow for the spell to be spammable and used when heavy raid wide healing is needed.

  12. #32

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mstone2005
    I wasn't talking about for a single fight, i was talking about for an entire Naxx clear.

    One of the interesting ideas that was mentioned when talking to a few priest friends, was to put a debuff on the priest that reduces healing done by CoH, that say lasts 10 seconds (or longer) and stacks infinitely (time wont stack, just resets the timer). This would make each consecutive CoH weaker and less mana effecient, but still allow for the spell to be spammable and used when heavy raid wide healing is needed.
    That's awesome. Although I'd say make it 6/8, personally.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  13. #33

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Problem is, Mstone2005, blizzard don't want you to have high raidwide HPS anymore. That's the shammy job, and you're doing it better than them.
    So that's why the debuff system, while an excellent idea, won't happen. Reason is apparently that they can't spend the time to program it. Frankly, CoH isn't allowed to be good. Besides, it was healing for 70% of our healing done now, and that's not acceptable.

    But hey, we have more limbs to walk with, we can easily live without CoH. While we're not better than any other healer anymore, we can still play with the big guys. I'm a bit more worried about the next patch big patch, when blizzard might find that priests have 70% healing done through flash heal. I can only wait until the same logic is applied.

    "Priests were turning into one button healers, this will be a good change"
    "I can easily live without my flash heal"
    "Priests are all about using all our abilities, the current setup is forcing us to use flash heal way too much"
    "I don't use flash heal anyway. only bad priests spam it all day"
    "I welcome the 6 second cooldown to flash heal"

    :
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  14. #34

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    I assume you mean COH

  15. #35
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,398

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    I doubt flash heal would ever become that one-button-healy.. And if it did, it would be OK becaaause? That's just being paladin-a-likes. The difference with CoH/wg was that you sorta stopped having to play triage, which I think is the game they have in mind for healers.

    IE, as a healer, you should have to ask yourself, repeatedly, "If I cast such and such a heal on this or that player, will other players die? Can I prevent those deaths by using a different heal, or targeting a different player?"

    It's stressful, but it's where the real skill in healing is, so I'm kind of cool with it being emphasized more.

    CoH/WG are still excellent spells, they just aren't as mindless now.

    Whether CH is ok, given this same question (IE, "Does this keep shammies from having to worry about triage?"), I can't say. I don't shammy heal, so I'm not really familiar with how they choose targets and the decisions they make. Seems like riptide probably helps keep them from literally just spamming CH in every encounter everywhere. :P

  16. #36

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbimojo
    I doubt flash heal would ever become that one-button-healy.. And if it did, it would be OK becaaause? That's just being paladin-a-likes. The difference with CoH/wg was that you sorta stopped having to play triage, which I think is the game they have in mind for healers.

    IE, as a healer, you should have to ask yourself, repeatedly, "If I cast such and such a heal on this or that player, will other players die? Can I prevent those deaths by using a different heal, or targeting a different player?"

    It's stressful, but it's where the real skill in healing is, so I'm kind of cool with it being emphasized more.

    CoH/WG are still excellent spells, they just aren't as mindless now.

    Whether CH is ok, given this same question (IE, "Does this keep shammies from having to worry about triage?"), I can't say. I don't shammy heal, so I'm not really familiar with how they choose targets and the decisions they make. Seems like riptide probably helps keep them from literally just spamming CH in every encounter everywhere. :P
    The diffrence here lies in the diffrences of the class design. Paladins are designed to be a single target heal spammer. Shamans are designed to be multitarget heal spammer. Priests are designed to be versatile but the way CoH is right now, they are not. They are currently an aoe heal spammer (no they dont use CoH only, but neither does paladins use only flash of light nor does shamans only use chain heal. Its their primary spells but not only).

  17. #37

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyeVII
    First of, I KNEW I SHOULD OF ROLLED A DRUID!

    Alright, now that this is said... I don't think blizzard thought real seriously into the whole Coh / Wild Growth nerf... If they did... then yeah, alot of bosses which required alot of aoe heals are going to become a pain to heal. Hear me out, im not crying because im getting nerfed, im just pointing out the obvious, last night while killing Malygos 25 man, i was top healer for phase 1-2. Between 70-90% of my heals were done with Coh, yes that is alot. But to my biggest surprise, the guy who was right behind me on healing was the Holy Paladin healing MT. And ya.. he didn't use a flask, use a mana potion, have mana tide. He just sat there and healed, healed, healed and healed. Mana wise... he ended phase 2 with 40% of his mana, i ended it with 15%... Thats 1 of the things i think you guys at blizzard didn't think. Some of you are going to tell me that im gearing myself badly, yes im going for Crit/spirit. Disc better at single target healing? Maybe in 10 mans... but then again its mainly because we have more tools then the paladin to heal. Ive come to realize that 25 man is just burst healing or who can heal the tank the whole fight without stopping. So what im asking right now is... Am I going to get something to compensate for the CoH nerf? More mana regen? Quicker Heals? More chance to proc Holy Concentration? How must i gear / spec myself to compensate for that lost? Haste, crit? Am i more a Raid healer or a tank healer? Because obviously im gonna need quick and powerful heals to raid heal. Did you also think about... Prayer of Healing -> only heals your group. If im not in the same group as the Resto shaman = no mana tide?

    So to resume it all :
    1- How will i be able to raid heal efficiently on aoe bosses (Malygos - Vortexes, Thaddius - Chain Lightning, Loatheb - Doom, Noth - Dance... obviously theres more)
    2- Should i stop stacking crit for haste? Even though as holy -> Holy Concentration and Surge of Light are really awesome and as Disc -> Divine Aegis isn't bad.
    3- How will i be able to compete with a Holy paladin on mana?
    4- Will you make Prayer of Healing a replacement for Coh and make it as intelligent as Coh?
    5- I REALLY SHOULD OF ROLLED A DRUID!

    Thx for reading my brain storm of ''QQ'' sry for the bad english.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...crusher&n=Lyme
    Ill skip most of this thread and address the "QQ how will i heal raid bosses that do aoe damage"

    malygos is probably the only example that holds up... and even then ive seen guilds down malygos with no priest or druid

    thaddius? lawl... if CoH is your main healing for that your guild should gkick u

    loetheb? join the club... proper healing assignments and PoH still works.. use Poh as the time on the debuff expires then cast CoH once... GG you will still out heal almost anyone else

    Noth... lmao..

    and dance? you mean heigan? no one should be taking that much damage... lrn2safetydance achievement







    Here are the 2 answers i typically get from priests on this subject
    1) zomg we always use CoH.. i spam it so i can be a good healer
    ^bad priest 1 spams CoH it obviously needs a nerf
    2) zomg i barely use CoH as it is... its only a small % of my healing why would blizzard nerf it
    ^bad priest 2 barely uses it so why complain its getting a cooldown

  18. #38
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    173

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    There's always changes people get scared of and we all learn to adjust our playstyle and adapt. Don't worry so much about it and see how it works on live. They're not gonna make any class unplayable. That said, I don't have a priest (resto shammy is my healer). Give it some time on live, see how it works and how you have to adjust, then issue complaints accordingly.
    I'm so out of this world, I make telescopes squint.
    -=702 Gamer=-

  19. #39

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    You priests today are spoiled. In my day we had to walk uphill in the snow every day to raid Naxx. We didn't have this newfangled thingamajig Circle of Healing. We had prayer of healing and single target heals. And we liked it! We had to manage our mana...time our healing...downrank...uprank...siderank... People knew who the good healers were. They were the ones who probably wouldn't cry about the nerf to a single spell when they knew what else they had in their arsenal. I've healed every single AoE damaging boss in the game up through Old Naxxaramas with 1-60 spells.

    Blizzard wants their to be a return to some kind of effort to healing and with that refocusing I have also brought my priest out of a two year retirement in the hopes that this will return healing to being less about one's spell damage/healing number and more about their ability to play the class.

    I welcome these changes.

    Also...stay off my lawn...dirty kids.

  20. #40

    Re: Consequences of Coh Nerf/whats next?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbimojo
    Whether CH is ok, given this same question (IE, "Does this keep shammies from having to worry about triage?"), I can't say. I don't shammy heal, so I'm not really familiar with how they choose targets and the decisions they make. Seems like riptide probably helps keep them from literally just spamming CH in every encounter everywhere. :P
    Wait. Shaman Triage?

    All through BC the only thing a resto shaman did was spam Chain on the tank (guaranteed heal) and let it auto-target who needed the others. At least Circle in TBC required us to pick a group (I liked it before it was smart, but hey, that's just me.)
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •