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  1. #1

    Priests - Any use left?

     GhostCrawler said that they asked every member in the team that plays a priest... i start wondering if any of them reached lvl 8 and went to "raid" in RFC or something.

    - Shamans are underpowered in both PvE and PvP
     I play a shadowpriest and i usually top the DPS meter. The only person that ever managed to beat me was a Elemental Shaman (the very underpowered class that will get a full buff on all offensive spells next patch). I have 7 buttons to spam and i must watch all my DoT's to see when they are up. I usually do 2.3k-.2.4k dps. He spammed Lightning Bolt! ... he did 2.6k-2.7k dps. Yep underpowered ... let's buff them.
     Enchanchement Shamans underpowered in PvP... I played a friend's DK (tank) with 27k hp. An ench shammy came and hitted me once - I was left at 14k HP - that is 13k HP on a naxx/malygos/sartharion geared tank with 28k armor (Frost Presence). The next hit was 3k while i had Icebound Fortitude up (-50% dmg).
     Ever tryed playing a Shadow Priest in arenas? In BC it was fun. In WotLK i tryed that... i got killed by a mage/retryladin while i was using Dispersion at about 13k hp... That means 60k burst dmg. I never managed to kill some1 in the new arenas so i decided to go Disc. It was nice until a muti rogue saw me... i didn't understood anything. I crited 3k with desperate prayer... I get down before i even get to cast. - Ghostcraler said that "Healers should go down to win arenas" ... ever tyed beating a resto shaman / Holy pala?. A shaman healed 250k in an arena match and my partener killed it after 14 mins. I got killed in 25 seconds. A Holy pala heals for 5k/13k crit with Holy Shock that has a 6 sec cooldown and bubbles every1... yeah go mele DPS...

     GhostCrawler also stated that priest stack Spirit so they taught: "Let's nerf Meditation... WOHOOOO"... nice that is what we needed. After the conversion to spellpower you said you will give players back the Bonus Healing lost through talents. Priests stack spirit because they get spellpower back and generate mana. Why don't you nerf paladins? They can stay in a spot without getting any mana regen gear/gems/enchs because they have a talent that grants them 60% of the mana used when they cirt.

      I almost forgot the sweet CoH nerf
      CoH will get a 6 seconds cooldown that you won't be able to reduce by any means. Doing so will make the shamans the only compentent AoE healers. Things will become easy when chosing the healing classes. Shaman > Paladin > Druid > Disc Priest > Holy Priest.
    Shamans will be the only ones that can still heal through some certain fights that require AoE healing.
    Paladins have imbah buffs, almost never run OOM and they can surpass every other singel target healer. They have an ability (Divine Intervention) that will make someone immortal for 3 minutes so they can ress up everyone and start the fight in a couple of minutes.
    Druids can still do some AoE heals spamming instant casts on everyone and have a combat ress.
    Disc Priests do a lot better than Holy priests at single target healing and have some interesting buffs that can increase DPS and can reduce dmg taken by one target.

    Druids and Shamans have abilities that make other people regen mana fast so that makes them to get into raids easyer.

     If anyone can post this on the US forums would be great :P
     
     

  2. #2

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    I do 4k DPS. What does this mean? My gear is way better than yours? I play 'our' class better? That Shaman will top out at 3.2K DPS or so... until they get fixed. While S.Priests are still climbing in DPS.

    Arena is a joke and shouldn't be attempted by people wearing cloth. /the end

  3. #3

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Well i can't immagine in what situations you do 4k DPS... :| i have 2158 spellpower self buffed and only the global cooldown stops me to spam more dmg (i also had that bug involving the "delayed mindflay bug" so mine only did 2 ticks at most)

  4. #4

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Where to start...

    I play a shadowpriest and i usually top the DPS meter. The only person that ever managed to beat me was a Elemental Shaman (the very underpowered class that will get a full buff on all offensive spells next patch). I have 7 buttons to spam and i must watch all my DoT's to see when they are up. I usually do 2.3k-.2.4k dps. He spammed Lightning Bolt! ... he did 2.6k-2.7k dps. Yep underpowered ... let's buff them.
    This is underpowered, if you at 2.3k to 2.4k are topping the DPS charts then your raid's or groups are slacking in DPS a bit, our Elemental shammy averages about 2.5-2.7k dps and he doesnt even make it to the top 10 most nights in dps. In that regard they are underpowered when you compare them to Enhancement shammies who I have seen pass 3k dps.

    Ever tryed playing a Shadow Priest in arenas? In BC it was fun. In WotLK i tryed that... i got killed by a mage/retryladin while i was using Dispersion at about 13k hp... That means 60k burst dmg. I never managed to kill some1 in the new arenas so i decided to go Disc. It was nice until a muti rogue saw me... i didn't understood anything. I crited 3k with desperate prayer... I get down before i even get to cast. - Ghostcraler said that "Healers should go down to win arenas" ... ever tyed beating a resto shaman / Holy pala?. A shaman healed 250k in an arena match and my partener killed it after 14 mins. I got killed in 25 seconds. A Holy pala heals for 5k/13k crit with Holy Shock that has a 6 sec cooldown and bubbles every1... yeah go mele DPS...
    I would say we are definitely worried that players are dying too fast, particularly to a handful of specs that combine high damage with high survivability. We know resilience will make a difference, but they jury is still out on whether it will make enough of a difference. Regardless, it's clear a lot of players aren't having fun, so it is something we are talking about.
    This is true to some extent however GC has in fact acknowledged that preists are getting slapped around like a rag doll in arena and they said the idea is that resillience will mitigate this however, if it doesn't then they intend to make adjustments to correct it, as it was NOT the intent.

    GhostCrawler also stated that priest stack Spirit so they taught: "Let's nerf Meditation... WOHOOOO"... nice that is what we needed. After the conversion to spellpower you said you will give players back the Bonus Healing lost through talents. Priests stack spirit because they get spellpower back and generate mana. Why don't you nerf paladins? They can stay in a spot without getting any mana regen gear/gems/enchs because they have a talent that grants them 60% of the mana used when they cirt.
    Everyone knows that our current mana regen sucks beyond belief HOWEVER, this is also something that GC has acknowledged and they intend to approch however it isn't likely any time soon.

    As for meditation specifically they are not saying they intend to "nerf" meditation they were talking about the idea that some classes are forced to go a certain depth into their tree for talents they are "Required" when their hope was to not have talents that are "Required" by everyone meditation just happens to be one of those talents that for nearly every priest shadow or not is "required".

  5. #5

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    One of the issues with Meditation per se is that players don't seem to be having many mana regen issues, especially with 25-player raid gear and especially with some form of Replenishment in the raid.

    One of the things I said before about "mandatory" talents like Meditation is that we like to have good talents, even ones that convince players to branch out from their dominant tree into a second tree.
    - Posted by GhostCrawler -

    Quote Originally Posted by jgnoel86
    Where to start...

    This is underpowered, if you at 2.3k to 2.4k are topping the DPS charts then your raid's or groups are slacking in DPS a bit, our Elemental shammy averages about 2.5-2.7k dps and he doesnt even make it to the top 10 most nights in dps. In that regard they are underpowered when you compare them to Enhancement shammies who I have seen pass 3k dps.
    I play on Sylvanas EU. My dps is not low and i know that for sure since i PuGed (WotLK raids) with guilds that were in top15 (worldwide) in BC. If 13 other DPS'ers that have both skill and gear couldn't pass that lvl i can't realise how you guys are doing those insane amounts of DPS. Our low DPS may be cause that we are playing on an overcrowded server (600-700+ ques) and the average latency is 150ms (I have 5-10 on almost any other realm so don't blame my network connection :P )

  6. #6

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    25 man. I have less SP than you. My last Grobb I did 3.7k. No one likes to run WWS in my guild but I have a SS. I was 3.9K on the Arachnid Quarter and Patchwerk.

    Elemental Shaman are very underpowered. You can easily see it by looking at WoWjustsu and viewing raid make-ups for guilds.

    As for meditation specifically they are not saying they intend to "nerf" meditation they were talking about the idea that some classes are forced to go a certain depth into their tree for talents they are "Required" when their hope was to not have talents that are "Required" by everyone meditation just happens to be one of those talents that for nearly every priest shadow or not is "required".
    This is the complete crap that I hate to keep hearing from Blizzard. Many people want a baseline meditation. Yet, we keep hearing the same excuse then sit idly by when this happens.

    Mage - Mage Armour 30% (50% Glyph), Arcane Tree 30% and Fire Tree 30%. I am unsure if mages are able to grab each 30% in both trees which will give them 110% Glyphed, 90% Un-Glyphed and 60% with Molten Armour. Or, they could go 60% or 80% with one tree and mage armour. All of this accompanied with Evocation (Owns Dispersion for Mana Regen) and Mana gems (Not limited to one per fight).

    Throw us a frickin' bone with mana regenration already.

  7. #7

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Throw us a frickin' bone with mana regenration already.
    I didn't say meditation wasn't underwhelming I simply said that blizzard has not pointed out intent to FURTHER nerf it. However our meditation hasn't changed any since I got back into healing back pre-wotlk. However with that said I would agree currently preists are completely hurting when it comes to mana regen, I was specifically told by my GL to never buy spellpower gems and only get spirit/int gems cause we dont lack the size of heals we lack the ability to continue to cast them for extremely long durations.

    I play on Sylvanas EU. My dps is not low and i know that for sure since i PuGed (WotLK raids) with guilds that were in top15 (worldwide) in BC. If 13 other DPS'ers that have both skill and gear couldn't pass that lvl i can't realise how you guys are doing those insane amounts of DPS. Our low DPS may be cause that we are playing on an overcrowded server (600-700+ ques) and the average latency is 150ms (I have 5-10 on almost any other realm so don't blame my network connection )
    I don't know what to really tell you in regards to this. Last night we did 25 man Naxx and our top 10 dpsers were pulling 3k.

  8. #8

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    I am not talking about stationary figths as patchwrek (This is the boss blizzard tested the new DPS abilities on) because i can go up to 4.5k DPS there (i am using fire seeds or leafs or whatever that will be gone next patch) i am talking about normal bosses that require you to move and follow a strat to survive.

  9. #9

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Not every boss requires you to move around, Lotheb requires little movement, but we wont count him because you get 50% crit, maxenna doesn't require to much movement except for the group on webs, and kel'thuzad doesn't require much if you position yourself right, even to avoid the big red circle, thats like two steps to the left. Not really a ton of fights that require movement during the entire fight. But even in reference to those fights our 9th and 10th dps on the chart is right around 2.3-2.5k. Dps isn't as hard as people make it out to be the biggest thing really comes down to the palyer. We consitently have a mage in top 5 of the charts with 3k+ on bosses without a ton of adds to.

  10. #10

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    3.7k on Grobbulus. Here you move alot. You also have adds when downies like to dance infront of him.

    3.9k was on the first add in the Arachnid and the death of Patchwerk... Also known as, OVERALL DATA.

  11. #11

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Well grats to you guys and your guilds those things aren't even imaginable on our realm yet we have guilds in top10 worldwide (including Method that is the 2nd).

  12. #12

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    I'd imagine it is but with that said one of the Highest dps'ers I've ever seen was not acctually even in the top guild on our server, he was acctually in a fairly low guild he was just EXTREMELY good at playing his class, averaging over 4k dps. The best guilds don't always have the best dps often they have some of the most capable players. Just because you a guild is the #1 guild in the world doesnt garuntee they have phenominal dps. It simply indicates your players know their stuff and are good enough (generally speaking) to not make the little mistakes which plague lesser guilds and acctually pay close attention.

    In addition the last couple of times I ran with the 2nd ranked guild on my server I wasn't running with their "A" team I was running with their alts mostly.

  13. #13

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    heyho shadowtrans,

    i think a good way to increase your dps (to maybe the 4k^^) is to spec a lot more on crit.
    you should have round about 20% or more without ur crit talents

  14. #14

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    The 4k person I was speaking of was a hunter, and while a commendable goal for a shadow priest to reach not the class I was referencing hitting 4k dps.

  15. #15

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Well bold i will do that asap :P
    And this became a DPS fight thread and i did not intended that. This is about every priest spec and especially healing that will get a major nerfe.

  16. #16

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Well grats to you guys and your guilds those things aren't even imaginable on our realm yet we have guilds in top10 worldwide (including Method that is the 2nd).
    They aren't there because they can DPS a truckload. They can co-ordinate and work as a team. When you're doing your shit right, you don't need amazing DPS.

    I'm also sure it didn't take them a couple weeks for people to understand Positive and Negative, either.

    And this became a DPS fight thread and i did not intended that. This is about every priest spec and especially healing that will get a major nerfe.
    Althou it is going to take a while to see. I am going to go out on a limb and say within Patch 3.2 or before, we are going to see major changes to possibly every priest tree. Healing mostly.

  17. #17

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    i guess that 2.something k dps is @ 10 man?

    because i reached 4k dps @ patchwerk last week (2k SP selfbuffed, without a elemental shammy / heroism)

    atm i think shadowpriests are fine (just a buggy MF, but that will get fixed @ 3.0.8. )

    dunno about healing since i hate that :P

  18. #18

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    The whole priest thing cracks me up.

    totally screwed at PvP, nerf incoming for raid healing.
    So Priests have issues with Mana - too bad. That's in the too hard basket - or the don't care basket. Nerfs are easy - solving problems is too hard right?

    But hey - all the pro priests keep telling Blizz it's OK - so the top 20% will be fine. The rest can suck it up. Well no. I won't suck it up.

    My guild runs 4 10 man Naxx groups - limited by heals. next week they will run 3 unless they replace me. I said OK I will heal again - and pay the 100g respec, and go back to 600dps when not raiding, and get outhealed by any Shaman with a chain heal button. But it's not fun.

    Fun is playing my DK and blasting multiple mobs easily. Fun is PvPing while knowing that the reason I died is because I wasn't good enough but thats OK cos there will be a next time.

    Priests have tuned into a fussy pita that Blizz have managed to suck the life out of.

  19. #19

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    @Shadowtrans: Respec. You don't need Shadow Affinity. Tanks have amazing TPS. The only time I ever have to cut back on my DPS is when I PuG Archavon. You don't need 1/3 in Improved Shield. Get 2/2 Imp. Shadowform, that reduction in Spell Interruption is good. You can go crazy on your 2 remaining points. Belt Buckle your Girdle of Bane and convert some of your +hit with +crit gear

  20. #20

    Re: Priests - Any use left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowtrans
    Well i can't immagine in what situations you do 4k DPS... :| i have 2158 spellpower self buffed and only the global cooldown stops me to spam more dmg (i also had that bug involving the "delayed mindflay bug" so mine only did 2 ticks at most)
    You're doing it wrong.

    http://wowwebstats.com/jof6yxbpup4bq?s=618733-662908&m

    It's becoming a DPS e-peen contest because you made a specific claim (i.e., Spriests cannot effectively DPS). This is patently false, and evidence is being provided. Priest mana regen is perfectly fine; I've only had to recently use Shadowfiend on Kel'thuzad, and that only due to Mana Detonation. Priest healing is perfectly fine; Guardian Spirit is superb if you're healing as Holy, and Disc is actually PvE viable now. If you're angling towards another CoH nerf whine, I have two suggestions:

    1) There's another priest healing tree that is doing pretty well without CoH. Big AoE numbers resulting in big Recount numbers do not = raid performance. You can slap a Disc healer on the MT and sleep soundly.
    2) You're assuming Holy won't be able to effectively AoE heal or even single target heal. It's only true if you keep saying so. PoM is still ridiculously OP, effective Renew usage has always been a part of a priest's arsenal and single target healing is still rather easy as Holy.


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