1. #1
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    5,274

    Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Hai there.

    Alot of you might know shadowpriest.com ... and alot of you might be healers and not read it. Never the less, the shadowpriests got a nice gear list there, which provides nice information on what gear to get.

    The list is based on so called weight scales, calculated with a simulator called simulationcraft. These weight scales can be used for all gear except trinkets.

    For both healers (holy only) and shadowpriests the current weight scales is about this:

    Holy Priest (Healing)

    • MP5 = 100
    • Intellect = 74
    • Spellpower = 60
    • Spirit = 54
    • Haste = 35
    • Crit = 15

    Shadow Priest (Damage)

    • Spellpower = 100
    • Crit = 61
    • Haste = 56
    • Spirit = 21
    • Intellect = 19
    • Hit = 112 (when not hit-capped)

    The numbers are relative to eachother, but shadow is not relative to holy or visa-versa. Remember the numbers are of theroy, and if you think a stat should be higher, you can change it yourself in the weight scales when used in pratic.

    What we can use these numbers to, is to find gear we can use. And rank it properly. To do this, we'll ally ourself with our good friend wowhead, who recently (make it some months ago) introduced the option of comparing gear, and sorting it based on weight scales. Wowhead also assist you in finding the best gem combination.

    Note for Jewelcrafters, check the "Include JC-only gems" option.

    For current raiding, Naxxramas, Eye of Eternity, and Obsidian Sanctum we can then make a bunch of gear lists. While this been done before on shadowpriest.com and dwarfpriest.com, the idea of writing this is so you know how to add Ulduar gear yourself rather than relying on other players who might be busy raiding themselves.

    And because it looks neat.

    Holy Priest

    Naxx, Malygos, Sartharion, Tier 7, Emblems

    Healing Gear

    Shadow Priest

    Naxx, Malygos, Sartharion, Tier 7, Emblems

    Not Hitcapped

    Hitcapped

    Note for Ulduar

    When Ulduar comes out, you then simply add Ulduar to the list of drop locations in the wowhead filter, and press "Apply Filter", and it should show you if a drop there is better or worse than one from the previous dungeons.

    Hope this will assist you in finding upgrades as much as it helps me.

  2. #2

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    The weights change depending on gear lvl... what you have posted is only true for X sp, X crit, X hit & X haste.... if you read the simulationcraft carefully you will notice these weights change change dramatically depending on your current balance of stats.

    So when uludar comes out I would hardly assume that the weights will be exactly the same, you might see haste get better returns with higher SP or perhaps crit becomes better to stack at the expense of haste... you won't really know until proper simulationcraft testing is done once we know what the gear will look like.

  3. #3

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    nice, i would love to see what this one says for hunters, can't though, at stupid work without a stupid computer...
    The man they call Alan

    Quote Originally Posted by Trolltrolltroll
    Telling people why you kicked them is the only way for them to know how not to do it in the next group they're in.

    Seriously, imagine you're 5 years old, playing with Legos in your room, and dad comes in and slaps you around a little bit and tells you that you're grounded. What do you learn from the experience? Just that dad is an asshole.

    Don't be an asshole, dad.

  4. #4

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Can't we all just not care about this garbage and play the game? Learn by experience, not by that of others.
    Banned.

  5. #5

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninetales
    Can't we all just not care about this garbage and play the game? Learn by experience, not by that of others.
    can't we just read the posts if we want to and don't if we don't??? post something of value, not garbage...
    The man they call Alan

    Quote Originally Posted by Trolltrolltroll
    Telling people why you kicked them is the only way for them to know how not to do it in the next group they're in.

    Seriously, imagine you're 5 years old, playing with Legos in your room, and dad comes in and slaps you around a little bit and tells you that you're grounded. What do you learn from the experience? Just that dad is an asshole.

    Don't be an asshole, dad.

  6. #6

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Am I the only one that finds it funny that mp5 gets a higher weight than spirit for holy priests?

  7. #7

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Good introduction, but a few question regarding your weights.

    Assuming 1 MP5 costs the same as 1 spirit, MP5 is definitively the best stat for holypriests, as your weightings show. But in actuality, the cost relationship is that 1 MP5 cost the same as 2.5 spirit. This makes spirit the better choice for a holy priest.

    For holy:

    1 MP5 gives 1 Mana per second OOFSR and IFSR

    For this cost you could instead get:
    2.5 spirit => 2.875 spirit through blessing of kings and spirit of redemption. Humans gain even more.
    At 1293 intellect (the breaking point value where 1 spi = 1 mana OOFSR) this gives 0.8625 MP5 Mana per second IFSR and 2.875 Mana per second OOFSR
    Plus 0.71875 spellpower through Spiritual Guidance.
    Is 2.5 spirit better than 1 MP5? Yes, if you get FSR breaks, and as holy, you should. If you don't, the two stats are very comparable.

    At least there is no way one can claim that MP5 is twice as important as spirit for a holy priest.

    So my question....
    Did you rebalance them weights for itemization costs?
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  8. #8
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,274

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    To be honest, I diddn't do 100k iterations to calculate the weights. It's average weights from sources I trust (shadowpriest & dwarfpriest).

    And it's true the weight scales ain't alpha and omega, and can easily change. But that was never the idea either.

    Weight scales gives a decent enough picture of what gear is upgrades. And you got the option to change them if you like.

    The main idea with the topic was to introduce the feature of wowhead and the concept of weight scales to the people who is yet to use them. It's my experience from reading forums and IRC that it's still unknown to alot of people.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    I press the "Insert Hyperlink" button

    I write [ url = the-real-url-here ] description-of-url-here [ / url ] without the extra spacing.

  10. #10

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    The weights change depending on gear lvl... what you have posted is only true for X sp, X crit, X hit & X haste.... if you read the simulationcraft carefully you will notice these weights change change dramatically depending on your current balance of stats.

    So when uludar comes out I would hardly assume that the weights will be exactly the same, you might see haste get better returns with higher SP or perhaps crit becomes better to stack at the expense of haste... you won't really know until proper simulationcraft testing is done once we know what the gear will look like.
    Thats the problem with these lists.
    I run a lot of simcraft and sometimes i even run it for the whole guild (fetching all stats of all the casters and doing one big simulation with 20k iterations or so).
    And the differences are huge. For a shadowpriest just dinging 80 with 1300 spellpower etc. hit will actually be worse than SP even tho he is far from being hit capped.
    In my gear with over 600 haste rating crit is much more above haste etc.
    Here is how my last sim went (normalized SP to 100): intellect=20 spirit=23 spell_power=100 hit_rating=110 crit_rating=63 haste_rating=46

    The reason for this being quite close to the values posted on shadowpriest.com (and here by the OP) is, because those are Endgame values with close to the best gear available (2200 spellpower unbuffed etc.). But if you are at this level of gear, then there are not many upgrades left .
    For someone with worse Gear like one of our twink shadow i got this:
    intellect=17 spirit=23 spell_power=100 hit_rating=98 (not capped!) crit_rating=54 haste_rating=49

    The differences are significant enough to say that everyone needs to either calculate their own scaling values or be very cautious when choosing items based off some lists.
    However, the advantage of using endgame values for this list is, that you see which WILL BE the best items once you have close to the best gear so you dont end up taking something that will get "worse" (or rather less optimal) soon after.

    Yea so all in all... if you are really serious about theorycrafting and maxxing out your char then do your own simcraft reports and use those values. If you think thats not worth the effort.. well then you can go by these lists .
    Newti - unplugged (EU Eredar) - 6/8 HC, 7/7 HC, 13/13 HC

  11. #11

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    I don't think that people should use weights as a definite way to choose gear. There are so many options for casters that gearing is pretty open. The main thing that people should do is aim for certain stat goals. I know most people are aiming for things like: 22k mana (raid buffed), 20% crit(self buffed), and 10-15% haste.

    The main things in debate are crit and haste. Some people feel haste is worthless and crit should be stacked as far as you can but I personally put value into both stats and will be aiming for decent levels of both.

    As far as MP5 goes, I think it's wasted itemization on most pieces that have it. I tend to avoid it because it's usually at the cost of Spirit and 1 Mp5 is always 1 Mp5 while spirit scales with buffs and talents.

    PS. Im referring to Holy, not Disc or Shadow.

  12. #12

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninetales
    Can't we all just not care about this garbage and play the game? Learn by experience, not by that of others.
    Because some people like do to do some research and go deeper into the aspects the game has to offer.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,274

    Re: Introducing Wowhead Item Weights

    I think "experience" would have a hard time telling if haste is better than crit.

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