Such a disappointment..

[Luthius]

Good evening, fellow Paladins.

Forgive me if I sound or will sound emo in this thread, but uh.. such a painful incident

Yesterday, I went with my guild to 10-man Naxx and there was that Ret Paladin guildie with us. I checked out his gear and the majority of his armor pieces were pvp items shoved with pure Crit+Str gems, no hit rating it's so obvious that he's not hit capped and also he's using the same weapon as I do. I am compared to him was hit capped and an ok gear! I surpassed him with tiny difference, except on Patchwerk I totally ate him with around 700 dps difference.. but still, he's kinda competing with me on DPS meter..

Now what sadens me that I'm limiting my enchants/gems to have the hitcap as it is.. and this guy comes with his pvp items and compete with a pve guy :<

Maybe he just got lucky with it.. or maybe I sucked /cry

[Sanguissa]

Maybe he have the skill you lack

Goog luck for you in trying to overdps pvpbuild next time

[Luthius]

Maybe he have the skill you lack

Goog luck for you in trying to overdps pvpbuild next time

QQ

I don't know what skill you mean if I'm following the FCFS method as it should be but still

QQ

[Kosic]

Luthius , There is a bug at the moment, which is that 3% hit talent we had during TBC, is still active amoungst players who had, had it during TBC. So if he had ever picked it up, he could still be sitting on an extra 3% dmg, meaning if his gear is higher stats than yours, it'll make him out pass you with ease.

Till the hot fix is in play (not sure if it's gone live yet), this could be the reason for it.

Aswell getting hit cap without geming for hit is simple, i had this capped even while wearing part t6.

Also on the matter of hit cap, many classes bring raid buffs which alowes them to always keep more crit, or an extra dmg on that target. Or even 3% more hit with melee/spells. So the hit cap isn't to important depending on raid set-up.

Seal of the Martyr

Judgement > CS > DS > Con > Exorcism > Holy Wrath (the cycle).

[DaveTheHunter]

The hotfix is already live.

As for the reason his dps was similar to yours with sub-par pve gear is because, according to the research i've done, hit cap isn't quite as important for a ret pally as it used to be. Apparently stacking strength is the primary goal then follow that with expertise and crit. I myself had assumed otherwise until i saw the number crunching to prove differently. Apparently just pretty much take whatever hit is on your gear and then stack the other stats through enchants and gemming.

[stouche]

you beat him by 700 dps on patchwerk, doesnt sound like his pvp gear is even comparable

[Swampmoose]

you beat him by 700 dps on patchwerk, doesnt sound like his pvp gear is even comparable

Agreed, 700dps is quite a large gap. On that particular fight I wouldn't even say he was close to competing. Far from it actually and even more so if it is a 10 man because your dps is going to be a little lower due to a lack of buffs, etc.

As long as this other ret paladin isn't coming to the raid without any gear on and no weapons, he is going to do SOME kind of dps, and if you beat him by 700, you are obviously doing something better than he is.

[Indris]

Hitcap is irrelevant, as long as you have enough mana to sustain your rotations - which you really should regardless, unless you're terrible - you shouldn't EVER enchant or gem for anything bar pure STR. Mind you expertise and crit are even worse than hit, but just because someone isn't hitcapped doesn't mean they're "bad" - on the contrary, gemming / enchanting towards hit is pretty much nerfing yourself.

[Deleted]

Hit rating isn't as important as it once was. I don't really get why so many guides tell you to go get hitcapped asap.
Personally I try to get hitrating along the way but I never loot an item just cause it has hitrating on it.

[Luthius]

Gorefiend Yeah I thought of that too..

Kosic I know about the Ghosthit Kosic. I never used something else other than Seal of Blood.. but still, it's kinda annoying :<. But if hitcap isn't important for Rets, that explains why T7 items are lacking of +hit and full of +crit and +haste and at the beginning I thought that Blizzard designers were extremely stupid. But anyways I planned thing up regarding my issue with the hit cap and my items once I do more testing on it I'll let you know.

lumenos Yep, that's what I'm talking about, numbers are actually proving the hitcap theory wrong :<

stouche Believe it or not, I did ~2600 and he did ~1900

Swampmoose Yeah, I actually felt good about myself at then. But the most annoying thing, when we continued the run he was still going up. Is it possible that the DPS meter links were bugged? I don't think so.. I didn't have my DPS meter running at then, it was linked by multiple people in Guild, but this is my guild and I know I can't trust them :P

ilovepeaches That's my current head plan, to fix some enchants and care better about other stuff other than hit cap, perhaps it'll fix it. I still didn't try it due my hideous work, but as soon as I will I'll let you guys know about it. Btw I love peaches too!

Caranthir I started to believe so! I'm gonna throw crusher on my gloves, change my belt with Nexus' belt and gem it wisely, perhaps I need to fix my expertise a little bit since it's so annoying to see freakin' Dodges/Parries!

Well thanks guys for the participation. It made me feel better that people are actually interacting with my post with devotion, unlike the first reply which I had from Einstein Jr.

[eclipse212]

well the reason why our T7 has so much haste on it and not hit, expertise or more crit was given by ghostcrawler in some post: they want room for improvement in future gear tiers and don´t want T8 to be just like T7 stats-wise, just with a +10 to everything. other classes' tier sets (not all, hello DK) show a similar trend.

all the WotLK truths about ret pala hit were posted here already, just pick it up if it´s on an item that increases your str/ap anyway, but don´t go after +hit (or crit, expertise or anything). sooner or later you´ll have enough without doing anything for it. I´m currently sitting at 300 hit rating which is 1.15% over cap even-.- (armory)

[Genitorturer]

From the dummy tests I've done by way of switching out gear that had the most AP vs Crit vs Hit, I've found that Hit > Crit >>> AP, meaning that Hit is just a little better than Crit and much much better than AP. I think that Crit DPS offsets the missing, which is why the other dude might be keeping up with you. /shrug

How was your damage compared to other classes?

[monalin]

I'm not much into ret, but aren't there spreadsheets that you can plug in your stats and find out which gems best benefit your build? At a certain point stats like AP are out weighed by hit and crit, same with expertise.

Crit isn't the answer for everything. Neither is hit or AP. As far as gems go though STR is very nice because it scales better than the other stats. But that doesn't mean you should neglect hit and crit and expertise, at some point haste even becomes a nice stat believe it or not. Every class is the same, balance the stats, none of the stats are linear, meaning its not always going to be add 16 str to get the best dps increase. After you get so much it might be more beneficial to add crit or something... I'm just saying, every class is the same. All the stats matter, some more important that others. But if you neglect one of the stats entirely and say its worthless you'll just wind up hurting your overall dps.

[Lucky_]

Notable thing: patchwerk for DPS is the least skill dependent boss in the game at the moment. You just sit there and spam your rotation. No movement, no thinking, no reacting to enviroment required.

Not so on most other bosses. PBKC?

[Morganskunk]

What are you spell rotations? Did you guys have the same spec? whats his name>? Post his armoury here :P

[sillverhair]

you say hes pvp geared and specced, however eeuhm a retribution pvp spec and pve spec dont really differ much, he might not get insta fol, or have a bit less mana return...

added to this theres still the non existent fix to hit rating...

so basicly ur toast

[Sour]

Dont be too put down

DPS also has to do with Ping and FPS, the better the two are the slight incrase in DPS you will have

also Retribution paladins are OP!

I was topping DPS in 25man OS, reaching 4k DPS while dodging flame waves

dw RET = OP

[sillverhair]

i do that in 10 man, 4k dps (got ss b4 people start to complain just dont know how to post it)

shouldnt you get a massive dps increase in 25man?

[Alensia]

I dunno but I keep my hit and expertise capped always in boss situations. Always #2 in dps meters (I only lose to furrior)