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  1. #41

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gron
    Lets get this straight:
    Naxx < Kara
    OS < Gruul's
    Maly < Mag
    Maly = Gruul's

    Its really bad how many bossess we see in this expansion, and most don't leave a lasting impression. Where are encounters like Chess event or Opera or... we could continue all day long!
    This made me lol. Ok so the difficulty of WotLK isnt as hard as TBC was when it first came out. This is essentially a good thing... Let me justify it by saying do you remember what it was like seeing your t3 epics being replaced by outland greens? that was a huge punishment for the time spent raiding naxx and aq. With the late addition of sunwell and the nerfs that let everyone see the content, the gear you got technically could last you until 80 or be replaced slowly along the way. (not omfg this green is better than my t3 pants...) so they fixed that.

    The content will get more difficult. Sunwell showed us what Blzz can bring to the table, and I believe that if top guilds didnt have the test realm time to work on bosses I dont think they would have gotten them until shortly before the xpac. That is no fun. Cut Blizz some slack. They have a larger player base than you think and not all of them are full clearing naxx and maly 25. think of the poor low pop servers that have like 3k people on them. If Ulduar sucks then yeah Blizz went soft.

    Saying it needed to be initially difficult is elitist. Give the casuals a chance to feel special and give them somethign to pay for. No one wants to farm all day or miss the wow lore by not being able to complete parts of the game ( initially at least.)

    Sorry for the TLDR

  2. #42

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    I don't think Malygos has a tailswipe :P

  3. #43

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    Quote Originally Posted by mickj
    It's kind of a faulty analogy. Naxx is the first real instance of LK raiding, SSC and TK were not. OS is kind of an odd case because it houses both the easiest and the hardest encounter in the game, so really, Naxx should appropriately be compared to Karazhan/Gruul in BC terms.
    It isn't even close to that. Actually it wouldn't be so bad if Kel'Thuzard was on Gruul-level difficulty. But there's not a single fight in there that's as hard as pre-nerf Curator, other than Malygos.
    No, no 1 thousand times no. Resist fights are retarded. They don't "prove" anything about skill, it's just a pointless timesink. There shouldn't be any fight in the entire game that requires any more resistance than what classes can provide by their abilities.
    Newsflash: It IS a resistance fight. It always was. It's just that it's horribly badly tuned. It's the 2nd-to-last boss in the instance, it should be either HARD or IMPOSSIBLE to kill it without farming frost res gear. Not trivial.

    It would have made the fight really ludicrous for ret and prot paladins, as well as enhance shamans. They were virtually non-existent pre-tbc raiding, so only ranged really dealt with it back then.
    If melee can't handle running around a corner out of LoS, you should probably replace them. This is the main problem I have at the moment, it's actually difficult to tell good DPSers from bad. It's only on Sarth with 2 or 3 drakes up you can tell who's worth gearing.

  4. #44

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    Hi Immapwnu,

    Thanks for not-agreeing with me - while doing it in a way that is normal on forums!
    I agree with you that its ok for starting content to be easy. However - I think some people need to clear some things from their mind: the game is not about progression to Sunwell levels in 2 years time. No. Its about giving fun to different people who play different amount of times, and have different playstyles.

    I agree - and understand its very hard to do. But Blizzard have done so many amazing things so far, thats why its a shock to see how they can't get it right now. Do content for casuals and hardcore too. Not only casuals. We have 1000+ quests, 18+ dungeons, 3 raids. Most of these were just done with casuals in mind, I'd say 98% of the effort went towards easy content. In every expansion, right from the start, you should have content for all players. We got 3 drakes, and maybe 1-2 other achievements to test our skills - should have been more.

    "They have a larger player base than you think and not all of them are full clearing naxx and maly 25." - Last time I checked on Naxx 10-man 97.8% of guilds on the server cleared it... that explains a lot.

    Saying it needed to be initially difficult is elitist. - No I am saying there needs to be different difficulty levels. Naxx last bossess should have been harder so people reaching there would feel epic encounters, tougher time to deal with bossess. Maybe even have less bossess in Naxx and do 2nd raid on SSC 2.4 tuned level. Something like that.

    Actually we "whine" because we like the game a lot. I liked doing Sarth with 2 drakes - now we are looking at 3 drakes. Its fun, but its the only challenge we have, and when that is gone... hopefully Ulduar comes.

  5. #45

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    I was hoping that nobody has posted a big line of bears in this thread so I could do it.

    :'(

  6. #46

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    It's probably been mentioned, but there's achievements for doing it with fewer players. This is Blizzards way of making it hard for hard core players as well.

    I can add that Naxx is easy, yes. but look at normal naxx drops. they got the same ilvl as heroic epics has. the rewards are perfectly tuned for the raid imo.

  7. #47

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daez
    How do you see these as Blizzard's goals? Honestly, they need to allow 90% of the players to have easy access to all content or they aren't going to keep a high player base for much longer. People were tired of only the top guilds making it to end game content in both classic and TBC. They weren't about to put up with it in Wrath. As far as hardcore players, I don't think Blizzard actually cares. They give them acknowledgment for their server firsts now through the achievements system, but for the most part I think they just see hardcore players as 10% of the population will never be happy. If you want to beat all of the end game content in a week then do it, but don't bitch 6 months down the road when you still have no new content to beat.


    Blablablabla...
    Man, those were few of the worst arguments I've read.
    I do agree with Thaddius and Patchwerk, but seriously, 4hm and maexxna are WAAAY too easy, and you do NOT need a perfect setup for the 4hm achievement n'or maexxna, it is easily doable without restodruids. The thing you're saying is, with a restodruid it is a FREE kill; while without, it is not free, but still too damn easy (yes I've done it).

    And, I think that a guild should have balance between their classes, if they don't have a single restodruid, they should think about recruiting one. One of each class != Stacking classes. And for example on Instructor, you want 2 priests, what if you haven't even got one?

  8. #48

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    I think Blizzard's goal is to keep many people happy.
    If content is too easy (Naxx) people are not happy = do not feel game is fresh.
    There is more than 10% of players who know how to play. Blizzard just misjudged it all. They thought handing out free epics will make everyone happy. But since everyone has all the free epics now, we wait for Ulduar - and start to say on forums that we want new challenge.

    Starting content should not equal "lets forget that our players know how to play and assume all are dumb". It should be a mixture of easy content and allow for harder encounters for those who passed easy content. WOTLK has least raid content shipped with a new expansion ever.

  9. #49

    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    Newsflash: It IS a resistance fight. It always was. It's just that it's horribly badly tuned. It's the 2nd-to-last boss in the instance, it should be either HARD or IMPOSSIBLE to kill it without farming frost res gear. Not trivial.
    I don't agree. Making people farm for max resist gear is dumb. It doesn't prove anything, other than just wasting someone's time. If you want to force people to gear for something, just make them get good gear rather than gimmicky garbage gear that you need for only one fight. Making people use auras/totems/buffs is acceptable. Making them farm gear solely for one fight is not.

    If melee can't handle running around a corner out of LoS, you should probably replace them. This is the main problem I have at the moment, it's actually difficult to tell good DPSers from bad. It's only on Sarth with 2 or 3 drakes up you can tell who's worth gearing.
    The point isn't whether melee are able to or not able to run out of LoS, it's that the original fight never intended for melee to be the ones playing LoS games. Now that mana users who melee are more of a staple of raids nowadays, that mechanic is simply not acceptable anymore. If it was a mechanic that made all melee run out then that would be fine. Singling out melee mana users is just awkward.

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans theredviola's Avatar
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    Re: My view of how Blizzard could make starter content better.

    Quote Originally Posted by h079
    Casuals don't just want to see bosses. They want to kill bosses and be rewarded...just like everybody who raids.

    Also, the idea that bosses at the end of each quarter would be impossible for all but the top tier raiding guilds is just plain terrible. Thankfully, Blizzard has learned their lesson about nearly unkillable raid bosses and is moving away from that philosophy.

    You say it's boring to wipe on a single hard boss....so we are to assume that you mean wiping on 4 hard bosses is somehow...fun?

    Thank goodness you're not a game designer.
    I certainly hope that you mean "casual" as an insulting term like "newb" versus "n00b." The former being someone who is new and honestly doesn't know how things work. Versus the latter which is a derogatory term meaning someone who is not knew and simply acts like they are new.

    I say that because I am a casual WoW gamer and I for one would give up every piece of purple gear and badge that passes by me if I were given the opportunity to not only see but to kill these bosses. I don't raid/play the game for loot, I am someone who loves the lore. (Even though they've bastardized it). I would love to assist in killing Kel'Thuzad and the Lich King simply for the glory of doing so. Yes, a million other people have done the same, but for me it is an accomplishment.
    "Do not only practice your art, but force yourself into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine." -- Ludwig Van Beethoven

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