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  1. #41

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    I don't think its too much to ask to have a SPriest, Retadin or Survival Hunter in your raid (well, having a Survival Hunter is a bit much to ask right now :P). That's like running a melee-heavy group with no Feral Druid or Fury Warrior and yelling at Blizz that you don't have 5% increased chance to crit. Instead of having one spec of one class with a niche for mana return, its been extended to three.

    And on the point of "bring the player, not the class", Blizzard has specifically said this isn't a sweeping generalization, you can't bring 25 warriors and expect to win. You get all your essentials in the raid (and every essential is spread across multiple classes), and then bring who you want after that. If you consider Replenishment to be essential (our raid having both a consistent SPriest and Retadin, I don't really know how we perform without it), then you bring someone with Replenishment. If you don't consider it essential, THEN bring the player, not the class.

  2. #42

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    2 shadowpriests in your group in BC was more fun as replenishment :P a bit overpowered, definetely, but quite laugheable to do w/e you want and never go oom (holy priest)

  3. #43
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    resto shaman > elemental.

    The shadowpriests would need the Mana Tide to not go oom

  4. #44

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    resto shaman > elemental.

    The shadowpriests would need the Mana Tide to not go oom
    /agree

    I was usually grouped with 2 Resto Shaman for my scrub guild's fights with Void Reaver. I also usually got 2 rezzes on that fight, so that I could DPS hard enough to keep everyone's mana up. <_<

  5. #45

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    I like to have 1 elemental in the raid, but not in my group <wink>

    Bribe the RL to put you with a resto shaman <wink-wink>

  6. #46

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    ...I don't like Replenishment. The buff is too required; you will both notice it and feel the pain when the buff is not present...
    well i must say.. thats bullshit

    cleared naxx and everything else without having that buff once
    why? i had to skill heal :>
    and no... i dont use pots/fiend either so.. u CAN heal without the buff and wont go oom

  7. #47

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Gratz on being boosted.

  8. #48

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    fl4shi: I understand that you don't agree with my sentiment, but this "l2p" card that keep getting thrown about is getting very old. For the sake of a good discussion, stop attacking the person and start attacking the facts.

    We don't bring 8 healers to naxx. We don't need to. Six healers is the current game, and that is with some healers underperforming. So we will all have to carry our weight. At 1100 int, 1100 spirit raidbuffed you barely break 300 MP5. This is my current gear level, and I am mostly epic now.

    Add to that, you get another 92 from paladin blessings, another another 20-25 from hymn of hopelessness and another 130 from the shadowfiend. You will in optimal conditions have approximately 550 MP5 in internal FSR manaregen.

    Replenishment yields another 450 MP5. That's almost but not quite doubling your manaregen to a very decent ~1k MP5.

    Your claim is that you can do well with the initial 500 MP5, and only unskilled priests need more.
    My rebuttal is that as a discipline priest, you might. As a holy priest, you will not. Some holy numbers:

    The ultimate CoH spam will drain you for 811 mana / cast. Or 2700 MP5 without spellhaste.
    GHeal will drain you for 1050 mana / cast. Or 2100 MP5 without spellhaste and disregarding Holy Concentration.
    Our most mana-efficient heal, FHeal, will drain you for 550 mana / cast. Or 1850 MP5 without spellhaste and disregarding Surge of light.
    Disregarding SoL might be unfair, but if every 10th flash heal is free, that's still 1650 MP5 consumed.

    As you can see, any form of spamming will drain your manapool at an alarming rate. Luckily, holypriests rarely spam. We do burst healing. Cast some spells, take a break, get some mana, and exploit the FSR. However, raids also simply lower the amount of healers as required if we can. More DPS means faster clearing, and if we have too many healers, everyone will be bored anyway. So it's 6 healers in naxx now. May try for 5 in a few weeks.

    As a result, I usually don't get many FSR breaks these days. I may take some anyway but mostly that will burden the other healers harshly. If they can cover for me without breaking a sweat, we are simply too many healers. Replenishment allows me to almost double the amount of spells cast, and thus healing done. If you think that is bullshit, then try reducing your amount of healers. Your healers clearly have too little to do in your raids.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  9. #49

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    frist:
    i never said "l2p"
    i said its bullshit that u NEED that buff
    which "required" means

    second
    i never said "unskilled priests need more"
    so instead to claim i would attack other ppl maybe u should read the whole thing
    and well its not like i wrote 200 pages for u to read through.. :>

    but i have to admit i did a small mistake
    1000/500 was my recent 25er run

    self buffed i have 750/300
    raidbuffed would normally (for me) mean mage and dudu buffs
    so im actually not hitting 500 for 10man maybe 400
    my point was only that its more than possible to heal without that buff

    and Replenishment isnt 450mp5

    for 20k mana it would be 250mp5

    yea thats good and all but no 450 :>
    450mp5 would mean 36k mana.. u got that much? :>

    and btw i was talking about naxx 10er since its more challenging than 25er which actually is quite boring (im only running 25er rdm)
    and 10er 3 healers = boring
    so we are running 2 healers
    maybe will try 1 healer some time but atm.. no need for such a stressful run :>

    and maybe i will have fun in 25er once patch is out (coh gets his deserved cd/nerf)

  10. #50

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Fl4shi: You are actually correct about the manapool; I did make a bad calculation there.

    Replenishment is worth 0.25% of your manapool every second. A 20k manapool gives you 50 mana per second, or 250 MP5. As such, your number is definitively correct, and I must apologize for the miscalculation. I like it when people poke holes in my numbers or statements like this; keep that up

    But yes, Replenishment is not half of our regen. But it's still accounting for a third of the regen in my case, and almost 40% in your case. It is mana you will miss, and it is a very much defining how long you will last on bossfights. 3 minutes vs 4 minutes. Without replensihment, those last minutes of the bossfight will be hell.

    Maybe your dps'ers are capable of ending the fights earlier. Mine aren't. Especially in 10 man runs.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  11. #51

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    well there are only 2 runs that didnt work well with 2 healer (both priests 1 holy / i disc (me))

    first: 4horse: we did it with 2 healer but my manapool was tight :>

    second: saph: tried it once with 2 healer.. but only 2 guys with frostresi.. no chance (and the second healer wasnt my usual partner the holy heal. but a druid for whom it was a first ever :>)

    ps: with selfbuffed i just meant devine spirit.. no food/pot



    and yea replenishment is a nice buff and i prolly would be happy about it (as healer)

    as shadow.. i was disappointed since its much less mana reg than i was able to give pre addon

    but since its for 10ppl now and always regging etc its good :>

  12. #52

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Resto shaman and me as disc did the whole naxx 10 without replenishment. It was tight for him, I was able to spam my heart out as usual, especially on Sapphiron.

    Seems it's more that mages and spriests need that buff than healers tbh.
    as shadow.. i was disappointed since its much less mana reg than i was able to give pre addon
    This is false. You actually give more mana back, it's just spread across 10 people instead of 5, so individual gain is lower.

  13. #53

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    4 horseman is actually doable with 2 healers if one of them is a holypriest. It requires high DPS and is a bit luck-based, but possible as holy.

    One of the two healers tank blameux / zeliek along with a dpser and switch accordingly.

    One tank take Baron Rivendare, and will be healed with a lightwell. Since the baron doesn't hit that often, the lightwell can actually keep him up until it runs out of charges. His hit will likely break the lightwell renew, but it's all about timing the application.

    Everyone else go kill the mountain king. Just stay on him until he is dead. He should die before 6 marks are up. More than that, and the lightwell will run out and the marks will start getting seriously hard to outheal alone.

    When the mountain king die, the main force take over the baron and repeat the process. Then you win.

    Alternatively, send in a shadowpriest, moonkin, elemental/restoshammy, retardin or bandage rogue to heal the baron tank. It' squite possible to do as off-spec, even if your manapool is ridiculous.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  14. #54

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    We decided to try something new and different with the back last night. We tried to have a warlock and a SPriest take it (warlock with Void Walker, myself trying to keep my own ass up with VE and self heals). Was working pretty well, until I called a switch, and the warlock goes "Oh wait, my VW needs health", and proceeded to Siphon Life instead of switching and let Zel blast the crap out of me.

    Anxious to try back again without a true healer next week, but I doubt they'll do it. Probably just stick to having one of the DPS with a heal button keep the Baron tank up and just blow up Thane.

  15. #55

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    your tactic is to complicated
    we actually used an easy one
    and it was easier for me (the disc) than it was for the holy

    like always
    2 real tanks and 2 caster/hunter dps

    1 healer starts with the 2 tanks
    the other starts at the back with the 2 caster/hunter dps

    once the tanks switch.. the healer do so as well
    its stressful a bit since u have to run, more or less, all the time

    that way u dont need "uber dps" just ur rdm guys will do (if they know how to kill that boss at all)
    only the 2 healers should know each other so their timing is good

    the tanks should also be able to hear ts/ventrilo and use shieldwall etc if they hear the healers "have" to switch and their hppool isnt maxxed

    and yea.. that happens 2-3times
    as priest np since u have 3 instants (pws renew pom)
    as dudu i guess its even easier
    as pala should be the hardest.. only 1 instant
    as shaman.. if the earthshield is able to heal 1 guy more or less solo it shouldnt be hard as well

    anyway
    u did saph with 2 healers, how many had frost resistence?
    and how much resistence?

  16. #56

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Replenishment is quite nice. Obviously it is a huge help to the raid and is almost essential for some fights. However, I feel like the change to Vampiric Touch has undermined Shadow Priest skill a little too much. Now the only thing that differentiates a great shadow priest from a decent shadow priest is the DPS. Before (while having high DPS was still great) the biggest issue was managing DoT uptime in order to maximize mana return. Now though, with Pain and Suffering and Replenishment, really the DoT with highest uptime priority is Devouring Plague, as one of our other DoT's only needs to be cast once (assuming you aren't bad or the RNG plays your favor) and Vampiric Touch is not nearly as crucial to be up at all times as it was in BC.

    Just my thoughts.....

  17. #57

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Now though, with Pain and Suffering and Replenishment, really the DoT with highest uptime priority is Devouring Plague, as one of our other DoT's only needs to be cast once (assuming you aren't bad or the RNG plays your favor) and Vampiric Touch is not nearly as crucial to be up at all times as it was in BC.
    Check your VT ticks, they do serious damage nowadays.

  18. #58
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    VT does the 2nd most damg in my total dps . ov MF is #1

  19. #59

    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    I don't like the buff in itself... what I do really like, is the new buff mechanic, I like the fact that we do not need 3-4 shadowpriest in a raid, I like that we do not need to stack the same classe all the time..
    It's cool that finally... for the replenish buff you just need one of thoses classes spec, shadowpriest, survival hunter, retnoob.

    The way buff worked before sucked... Now we can finally invite who we want, invite the person not the class.

  20. #60
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Replenishment - are we happy with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Time passed, content been cleared, and we had alot of time to test the new mana feature of wotlk: Replenishment.

    So the question is simple, are we happy with it? Both personal, and for groups / raids.

    Personally? Very happy, and it seems to scale very good with gear.
    Kings, Wisdom, Flask, MotW, Spirit, FoodBuff and Replenishment, 23900 mana.

    1400 mp5 OO5SR and 590 in combat.

    Can't go oom even if I spam Prayer of Healing, for what are my concerns in raid.
    For groups, obviously no human being can actually go oom or complain about Replenishment.

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