PvP priest advantages/disadvantages over other healing classes

[cb73000]

I've been playing my priest a few months after the start of BC. I love healing, and as many times as I try, I can't take on a DPS/tank class to play on the regular. I've leveled a rogue, but just didn't like it. I've been considering other healing classes, as I want to be more competitive with PvP, specifically arenas. I enjoy Battlegrounds a lot too. I feel I excel in BG much more than arenas, and if I can get some flow going with my healing along with some DPS, that make even a small effort to protect me, I can really rack up healing & kills. Any BG I'm in from the start, that my team isn't getting fully dominated, it's rare that I'm not in the top 2-3 of healing. Keep in mind these are all PUG BGs.

My issue is when I try to play Arenas. Yes, I know there's a lot of teamwork and coordination involved in getting wins. I know I didn't/don't have the best gear, as I played around the 1600 level in BC, and I'm almost maxed out on BG honor points (deadly) gear now, with a couple savage season 5 pieces. Currently I'm playing with a good friend who's a VERY undergeared mage, and we're sitting sub 1400 rating. Even with that said, I just don't feel my survivability is there. I know burst damage is king right now, and if 2 rogues have their way with me (they blind my partner and his trinket is on cooldown), I have no chance at all to even get off a spell of any kind. But I know there ARE disc priests out there that are having success in the current burst world. So right now, I'm accepting that I'm just not good enough as a disc priest to get up to say the 1700 level in arenas. Yes, there are many potential factors that come in to play that I can't break 1650. But I'm trying to target more of the things I can control, and the one I have the most control over is my play and class selection.

Last couple Arena seasons druid healers seemed to be the healer of choice (let's just talk 2v2 for simplicity). I knew the advantages, of the druid healer, but wanted to try and push through with my seemingly underdog healing class. Heck, getting to 1650 (with another disc priest as a partner) was a huge deal for me. What's the healing class that is exceling right now in arenas? With the dispell nerf that is coming, feels to me ONE of the unique/special aspects about a priest is going away. Add to that the new ability to miss with a mass dispell, say on an ice blocked mage, or a bubbled pally, and it may be more mana efficient to last out the bubble and try to heal through it.

What's everyone's take as to the easiest (I'm using the term very loosly here) healer to be competitive in arenas? I'm not looking for a class that's just easy to play to get some wins. I don't mind putting in the time/effort to learn the class, and get the most out of it. My drive to be MORE competitive in arenas has risen above the notion to stay and play the underdog class. My frustration (mostly with myself) has got to me, and I'm wanting a higher level of success (in terms of Arena wins).

Perhaps the best way to phrase the question is what advantages, in ANY area, do disc priests have in PvP over the other healing classes? And do these priest advantages outweigh the cons?

[axxey]

Each have advantages, priest i see as bottom of the bunch at the moment vs multiple dps atm however.

Paladins have the most survivability, the most endurance, the most burst healing throughput.
Druids have the most CC while being a healer.
Shamans give the most buff to their teammates.

Priest mostly have the best agressive healer, dispelling, mass dispelling, taking away the advantages some classes create.


Priest is currently not viable without being coupled with another CC class to help with melee. Priest ret pally, priest rogue, priest boomkin, good combos.
Multiple dps priest faces the same problems as every healing class, 1v1 priest can survive against anything other than rogues and BM hunters(line of sightable).

[Chaosgaurdian]

i just get dissapointed as to why priest have 2 healing trees and don't do better then the others lol.

[cb73000]

Priest mostly have the best agressive healer, dispelling, mass dispelling, taking away the advantages some classes create.

Axxey, with the upcoming dispell nerf, how much do you feel that this reduces the priests advantage in the dispell, mass dispell area?

[Yzaron]

Axxey, with the upcoming dispell nerf, how much do you feel that this reduces the priests advantage in the dispell, mass dispell area?

Dispell nerf? As in all clases losing about 30% dispell resistsance on their most important spells? Its prolly gonna help

[AetherMcLoud]

Each have advantages, priest i see as bottom of the bunch at the moment vs multiple dps atm however.

Paladins have the most survivability, the most endurance, the most burst healing throughput.
Druids have the most CC while being a healer.
Shamans give the most buff to their teammates.

Priest mostly have the best agressive healer, dispelling, mass dispelling, taking away the advantages some classes create.


Priest is currently not viable without being coupled with another CC class to help with melee. Priest ret pally, priest rogue, priest boomkin, good combos.
Multiple dps priest faces the same problems as every healing class, 1v1 priest can survive against anything other than rogues and BM hunters(line of sightable).

Huh? As long as you're not chain silenced or stunned, no amout of DPS can bring down a holy priest with blessed resilience. All other specs though, they just die in an instance. And I hate holy :/

[cb73000]

Dispell nerf? As in all clases losing about 30% dispell resistsance on their most important spells? Its prolly gonna help

My understanding of the nerf is that many if not all of the helpful buffs will no longer be dispellable. Dots will not be dispellable either.

from: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1428...-mechanic.html

The general rule of thumb is that helpful spells (e.g. buffs) and dots are protected. Other offensive spells (e.g. crowd controls) are not.

We are definitely interested on hearing feedback on this implementation. We like the basic mechanic of casting and dispelling spells, but I think many players agreed that the system beyond that needed an overhaul. I am sure many players have their own ideas on how this should have worked, because a lot of them have been pitched to us.

Feel free to discuss dispel and dispel resistance here rather than having the conversation across multiple threads.

The way I'm interpereting this, is that this will take away any offensive dispelling priests had, as well as take away the ability to remove a paladin bubble, or a mage's iceblock. Would mass dispell really be wanted/needed anymore? The mana cost alone is mega steep. Except for very specific situations in BG, I can't see mass dispell being used.

On a side note, looks like they're going to make reflective shield ONLY for the caster.

[AetherMcLoud]

My understanding of the nerf is that many if not all of the helpful buffs will no longer be dispellable. Dots will not be dispellable either.

from: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1428...-mechanic.html


The way I'm interpereting this, is that this will take away any offensive dispelling priests had, as well as take away the ability to remove a paladin bubble, or a mage's iceblock. Would mass dispell really be wanted/needed anymore? The mana cost alone is mega steep. Except for very specific situations in BG, I can't see mass dispell being used.

On a side note, looks like they're going to make reflective shield ONLY for the caster.

Read that again. And again. And again. You got it completely wrong.

Buffs, Hots, and Dots will benefit from the 30% dispell resistance that every class can spec into.
CC like fear, paladin stuns, sheep, et al, will get 0% dispell resistance therefore dispell will never fail against them.

It's a buff for Buffs () yet a nerf for CC, which is fine by me.

[joyu]

and priests still being the only ones capable of dispelling bubbles and iceblocks

[AetherMcLoud]

and priests still being the only healing class incapable of dispelling poisons.

[Danner]

The poison part shouldn't be so bad really. In PVP, the poison won't make you survive anyway. But in PVE, poison damage is just over-the-top. The primary example is the annoying dragonmounted boss in Uthgarde Pinnacle. My priest cries every time someone get poisoned with a poison buff that ticks for 5000 damage per second. In comparison, most Naxx/25 diseases and curses are ticking for 2k every 2 seconds.

[Zetsumei]

Priests have it hard with the current burst play, not to mention R-Shamans who have the same problem. R-Druids can run away easier and got some CC up their sleeves. H-Paladins got their bubble + Plate. Nevertheless, Priests are viable healers and will become more viable when arena-players become resilience geared. D-Priests have got some sweet abilities which makes them excellent arena-healers, even though Mass Dispel can be resisted on a bubble or Ice Block.

Priest mobility while healing
As a D-Priest you will heal primarily with Penance, which is an instant cast and thus allows you to keep moving. When Penance is on a CD, you will use Prayer of Mending (PoM) or Flash Heal (take a Flahs Heal glyph). The Flash Heal is the only heal that stops you from moving, however it's a very short cast. One more advantage is Power Word: Shield (PW:S). PW:S gives you time to heal in a critical moment, because it "stops" the damage for a short amount of time.

Priest CC
You do not have a lot of CC as a priest. There is only Psychic Scream, nevertheless it is very helpful and very powerful if combined with the CC of your partner.

Priest offense
As a Priest you have the ability to dispel de-buffs/cc from your partner, allowing your partner to continue his offense. Also, you can dispel enemy buffs (30% resistance is annoying indeed, but it is still powerful). You can use Mana Burn to force enemy healers to get out of line of sight (olos) of their partner. This could give your partner the opportunity to finish of the enemy dps. Of course, there is a huge positioning strategy in play here. And if the other healer does not olos, then you can keep up the Mana Burning unless you need to heal your partner (so use it carefully).

Overall
The Priest is a very good Arena healer, but it's hard with the current state of burst. Just keep up stacking PvP gear, resi/stam sockets and enchants. Use your Pain Suppression wisely. And here is a thing which I would do: specc for crit and get the crit gear. There is no use in mp5 when matches are short. Crit gives you more healing and temporary buffs (check the talent tree for that). I would get a Rogue as a partner, because he can protect you better. Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot totally shuts down one enemy, while a Fear (trinket) followed by a Blind can be ACE (watch out for WotF, Ice Block, bubble..)

I am not a Priest and I have never played one. But I hope that I gave at least one nice tip. Just don't take Arena to serious and take it for what it is at the moment. There is a good D-Priest/A-Rogue movie on warcraftmovies (movie called Trakkemania), at least I saw that it got good rating. Maybe you can learn from that movie.

[hypo]

Priest mobility while healing
As a D-Priest you will heal primarily with Penance, which is an instant cast and thus allows you to keep moving.

Penance is a channeled spell.

[AetherMcLoud]

Priest mobility while healing
As a D-Priest you will heal primarily with Penance, which is an instant cast and thus allows you to keep moving. When Penance is on a CD, you will use Prayer of Mending (PoM) or Flash Heal (take a Flahs Heal glyph). The Flash Heal is the only heal that stops you from moving, however it's a very short cast. One more advantage is Power Word: Shield (PW:S). PW:S gives you time to heal in a critical moment, because it "stops" the damage for a short amount of time.

That's why you go holy. Then you never have to stop moving to heal. Circle of Healing, glyphed Holy Nova, Surge of Light Flashheals, Renew, Shield, Guarian Spirit, and Lightwell - which you can even click when stunned/feared/silenced.

[CrisisCore]

That's why you go holy. Then you never have to stop moving to heal. Circle of Healing, glyphed Holy Nova, Surge of Light Flashheals, Renew, Shield, Guarian Spirit, and Lightwell - which you can even click when stunned/feared/silenced.

But be cautious with lightwell it is an effect easily cancled

[Knf]

Bad things:
- Abolish disease ticks every 5 sec... should be 2 sec like the druid anti poison spell
- No poison removal = food for rogues... free kill for hunter teams...

[frott]

How about people who've actually played the class respond here? I don't need to see wall of text with someone saying "penance helps you move." :

Here are some bits of info:

1. Right now I'm playing split evenly between disc/holy for both focused will and blessed resilience. This is by far the best combination for playing with classes other than cheesy rogue/priest or burst/priest. I, for instance, play this with priest DK. Food for thought, the highest rated team in the world in any bracket is priest/dk. Nevermind that the next 20-30 are mostly paladin/dk...

2. I use lightwell for that extra heal that is clickable in many situations where you cannot heal. This is *not* easily removed and worst case scenario is the other team attacks the lightwell which buys me precious time. It also doesn't screw with GCD.

3. Some form of rocket boots. Either nitros as an engineer or the trinket as a JC helps a ton. Priests are the strongest healer if they are left unmolested, and buying extra seconds for your partner to dps is massive.

4. Manaburn / PI is very strong. Right now you can take a ret paladin to empty in 4-5 casts. Post change to manaburn you'll be able to take any class to empty in 6 casts, which you can easily do in the time of one PI. This is a major advantage against some comps. Unfortunately, right now the major comps that give priests trouble are 2x dps burst comps of which only rets and mages have mana.

5. Lack of poison removal hurts a TON for how much poisons hurt healers in general whereas curses, diseases and magic effects do not. DKs can apply diseases so easily it is almost a waste of mana keeping it off, though it is essential at the same time because it hampers their dps so much. Shaman countercomp DKs entirely, however.

6. Spirit of redemption is really, really strong until the nerf. Then it is mediocre at best. Dispel is very strong glyphed as well. Both getting nerfed, both great right now.


So I'd say right now, realistically, priests are only second to paladins in 2v2 arena when considering all of the comps and the frequency you'll go against them. Paladins simply have too much armor, crit synergy, benefits of shielding, dispel power, invulnerabilities and group buffs to ignore. They can remove any of the abilities that hinder other healers and gain a benefit from doing so.

You can theorycraft that we do well in certain situations, but those situations are relatively rare in 2v2 compared to DK/Ret, DK/Holy, Rog/Mag, Rog/Dru, etc. The manaburn change will help a little bit but in most cases you win without manaburning if your team is able to allow you to cast enough to manaburn - you'd be healing and dominating the other team.


I will also say that priests rely on gear the most out of all of the healers, which some people have seen as being innately worse. There are really multiple phases of balance to arena: early arena where you have PVE dps gear going up against PVE healing gear. The priests suffer the most here. Then mid arena you have more of a mix and you see priests not getting gibbed as much. Finally there is the "fully saturated" pvp gear era that we will see who has the most longevity once the burst is survived.

My biggest gripe with priests is that we're so geared to outlast burst that our longevity suffers compared to any other healer. Manaburn is supposed to be the equalizer along those lines, but they've inexplicably stated that they don't want that be what endgame arena is about.

Too bad they don't care that beginning game arena is what priests suck at and try to overcome, then need to rely on drain/burn to equal the other healing classes that have way more longevity.

[frott]

Read that again. And again. And again. You got it completely wrong.

Buffs, Hots, and Dots will benefit from the 30% dispell resistance that every class can spec into.
CC like fear, paladin stuns, sheep, et al, will get 0% dispell resistance therefore dispell will never fail against them.

It's a buff for Buffs () yet a nerf for CC, which is fine by me.

Except for that small problem is that priests as the "dispelling class" cannot dispell the CC off of us while we're being CCed, and will lose the ability to offensively dispel.

[AetherMcLoud]

But be cautious with lightwell it is an effect easily cancled

Lightwell hot only breaks when you lose more than 30% of your total health with 1 damaging move. So almost never unless you get a really big crit, which you won't because you have blessed resilience.

[Moxal]

I've been playing with the 38/33/0 spec recently and I'm curious to see what you guys have been using. My first few attempts I skipped PI, but now it seems I should of considered lightwell.

And your right, should they blow up the lightwell (bait) it gives you a few seconds to escape.