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  1. #41

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Examples:
    The lightwell which heals for 90000 healing is powerful. But doesn't feel like it because it is extremely clunky to use. I often wonder if an even more OP version of the lightwell, f.ex one which healed 100% HP over 6 seconds would be used more, and I'm still not sure.

    Prayer of Mending which is reactively healing the MT for 4k then jumping to some absolutely useless target isn't really that powerful given its manacost. Except under very certain conditions, where ProM shines. And it damned well feels like it shines, because you remember it clearly when those certain conditions occur. Nothing beets the feeling of power when your ProM jumps between the MT and OT four times in one second.

    Renew is ticking for 1200 HP glyphed. I spent all I could improving this spell, and it is outstrippen badly by a flash heal. That feels very weak.

    Flash Heal is not really a mana-efficient heal. But suddenly it procs SoL, Inspiration, holy concentration or whatnot. And that makes it feel powerful, because you have many effects coming out of it.

    CoH with no cooldown is a powerful spell. And it damned well feels like one. It's almost cheating.

    CoH with 6 seconds cooldown is still a useful spell. But it doesn't feel like it. You will still compare its healing vs a fortitude buff. And it will fall short, badly. This leads you to mentally label it under "weak spells" and avoid using it. That's bad playing, but it's the problem.

    Lightwell- who doesn't wish it were useful. Reader: YMMV, but from my experiences- lawl.

    PoM is still hella-sick imba I-can't-believe-they-don't-re-nerf-this. 4K? Maybe if I'm naked. PoM is frequently #1 or #2 on my meter. Cheap as heck, and bounces for up to 11K crits, 5.5K on the low. BAM

    Renew, seriously, I remember renew healing "Das Uber" for priests I knew back when TBC hit. I don't really feel it lives up to what it could be, or should be. Tonights Naxx 25 had my renews ticking for 2,555 solid all night, and that is with glyph.

    Flash Heal with SoL is mana in the bank, son. Stack on some nasty crit (28.37% in raid) and you can just machine-gun these out. Call me lame, a nub, whatever, but when you're Flash heal is hitting for 9.8K on the high, and 6.1K on the low, and you can cast these in under 1 sec...ya...

    AND NOW we come to CoH: I've raided on the PTR with the CoH 6 sec CD. It's like Blizzard put it there just to shut up some whiners. It's like they're experimenting, sitting and waiting to see what happens. 6 Sec for a 1 shotter is insanely too long. I'd rather they slap a cast timer on it and give us a fighting chance since PoH isn't raid-wide. PoM at least is actively healing during it's 7 second cooldown- super boss on Sapphiron, for example. My CoH on the low is 3.5K and on the high 7K, obvious avg. 5.1Kish. Now. That is pretty darn powerful for an instant, and I do very much believe some of us have gotten used to it a bit much, but then always remember: YMMV.

    What your raid brings for healers will vary. How your raid handles trash mobs will vary. But not having AoE heals covered will rock you. Naxx 25 with 2 Pallies a Disc priest and 1 shammy. Pull 2 packs before Faerlina. OOOPSIE people die. You direct heal 25 people. Got one of those whacky shades popping up on ya? OOOPSIE people die. Gargoyle poison what? OOOPSIE people die.

    You see my point, and that's just 3 trash mob examples. I don't know about you, but we heal more on trash than on all bosses combined in Naxx, and not having a quick, effective AoE heal is going to change everything. It has the potential to slow runs down if you don't have effective AoE heals in place.

    Yes, shammies will soon be face-rolling Chainheal with that brutal overheal. Yes, the naxx pugs will be looking for shammies over Priests (remember: Pugs, like MOST people in the world only care about RESULTS, not how it's done, and if 1 class can deliver a better result, they'll take em). Fact.

    We'll have to see how things change. Like I said- your mileage may vary. What your raid does now may be different than ours, and others I've been associated with. It doesn't change certain facts though: AoE dmg is there, will be there, and will need to be healed. If one class can't do it, another can. And boys/girls, I'm not talking about a little 10 man jaunt in the Naxx here. If nothing else it'll definitely make raids tighten up on their pulls and strats, which is at least a positive from this.

    Oh, someone earlier mentioned the beta for TBC having Circle of Renewal? leet- I'd trade in CoH for an AoE renew anyday.









  2. #42
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    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by Trannysteve

    PoM is still hella-sick imba I-can't-believe-they-don't-re-nerf-this. 4K? Maybe if I'm naked. PoM is frequently #1 or #2 on my meter. Cheap as heck, and bounces for up to 11K crits, 5.5K on the low. BAM

    Renew, seriously, I remember renew healing "Das Uber" for priests I knew back when TBC hit. I don't really feel it lives up to what it could be, or should be. Tonights Naxx 25 had my renews ticking for 2,555 solid all night, and that is with glyph.

    Flash Heal with SoL is mana in the bank, son. Stack on some nasty crit (28.37% in raid) and you can just machine-gun these out. Call me lame, a nub, whatever, but when you're Flash heal is hitting for 9.8K on the high, and 6.1K on the low, and you can cast these in under 1 sec...ya...

    AND NOW we come to CoH: I've raided on the PTR with the CoH 6 sec CD. It's like Blizzard put it there just to shut up some whiners. It's like they're experimenting, sitting and waiting to see what happens. 6 Sec for a 1 shotter is insanely too long. I'd rather they slap a cast timer on it and give us a fighting chance since PoH isn't raid-wide. PoM at least is actively healing during it's 7 second cooldown- super boss on Sapphiron, for example. My CoH on the low is 3.5K and on the high 7K, obvious avg. 5.1Kish. Now. That is pretty darn powerful for an instant, and I do very much believe some of us have gotten used to it a bit much, but then always remember: YMMV.
    Id like to know what are your numbers. Cause if you dont have 4k spellpower it seems VERY unlikely that these numbers are real.

    Seriously dude... CoH low 3.5k low and 7k high? How that makes sense, are you critting with CoH for 200% instead 150% like every other healer? Did you measure it with 2x 750 spellpower trinket proc? O_O

    Flash for 6.1k? I know you can have 6% more healing done from aura but still.

    Please share your wws parse with me, so i could see where our priest went wrong, since they can achieve numbers close to that (4.5k CoH crits).

    Also you dont need priest for any trash pack in any raid. Same goes for shammy, even if all healers were paladins it's healable. Just cause you think you're needed cause you're priest means nothing. But you're needed cause you're good player.

    And if you care more bout what pugs will take than what will organized raid take than i feel sorry for you.

  3. #43

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    nerf CoH all you want, give me a poison cleansing plox

  4. #44

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    I play priest for 3years, and i think this nerf on CoH, will definitly be a huge hit on healing priest, but i dont desagree with it.

    It will be indeed the ultimate test for who can play a priest and who can only spam CoH.

    But ...like someone said about it, SWP, it was indeed a CoH spamming, specially on Twins.

    The only thing i see here, its the raid healing will have to be more group organized, like, if we dont have CoH, we can use PoH. but PoH only heals party.

    Who played MH, BT and specially SWP, know this extremely well, and know how to use it.

    The only thing i think, its renew should be more strong. They should change the 3 secs tick , to 2secs..or even 1 sec. The rest of the spells are fine...but i still think Pala its the king of spamming big fast heals. The damn crit and holy shock heal, with Bacon of Light its extremely imba!!

    And BTW...BLIZZARD !! put PoM a little more smarter please !! I hate to see my PoM on a tank jump to a pet and stay there for all the time !! lol. And its the most imba spell of the priests!!

  5. #45
    Pandaren Monk nalle's Avatar
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    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by Trannysteve
    Yes, shammies will soon be face-rolling Chainheal with that brutal overheal. Yes, the naxx pugs will be looking for shammies over Priests (remember: Pugs, like MOST people in the world only care about RESULTS, not how it's done, and if 1 class can deliver a better result, they'll take em). Fact.
    I can only say that you've never ever played a shaman, people always say that shamans just spam chain heal (we did in tbc and some shamans still do like priests spamming CoH now) but any good shaman always use a good rotation of LHW, RT and CH and never only CH.

    As for priests, good priests will never be replaced, the priests that are in my guild never do that mindless CoH spamming that this thread is about, if you really really rely on CoH that much only proves that you don't have any skill, a 6 sec cd on CoH is nothing for a good priest with a good rotation.

    So before you feel the need to compare classes make sure you know how to play them or get some opinions from GOOD priests/shamans.
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  6. #46
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    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by Trannysteve
    PoM is still hella-sick imba I-can't-believe-they-don't-re-nerf-this. 4K? Maybe if I'm naked. PoM is frequently #1 or #2 on my meter. Cheap as heck, and bounces for up to 11K crits, 5.5K on the low. BAM
    11k ProM crits? Is your ProM suddenly critting for 200% healing instead of 150%? Screenshot or it didn't happen.

    Flash Heal with SoL is mana in the bank, son. Stack on some nasty crit (28.37% in raid) and you can just machine-gun these out. Call me lame, a nub, whatever, but when you're Flash heal is hitting for 9.8K on the high, and 6.1K on the low, and you can cast these in under 1 sec...ya...
    Again I want to see a screenshot of an instant (non crittable) flashheal healing for 9.8k.

    AND NOW we come to CoH: I've raided on the PTR with the CoH 6 sec CD. It's like Blizzard put it there just to shut up some whiners. It's like they're experimenting, sitting and waiting to see what happens. 6 Sec for a 1 shotter is insanely too long. I'd rather they slap a cast timer on it and give us a fighting chance since PoH isn't raid-wide. PoM at least is actively healing during it's 7 second cooldown- super boss on Sapphiron, for example. My CoH on the low is 3.5K and on the high 7K, obvious avg. 5.1Kish. Now. That is pretty darn powerful for an instant, and I do very much believe some of us have gotten used to it a bit much, but then always remember: YMMV.
    CoH for 7k yeah right. Screenshot or it didn't happen. I think you just pull those numbers out of your ass TBH. Healing crits for 150% not 200%.

    With ~2200 spellpower those numbers aren't going to happen. Punctum.
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  7. #47

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    I have played a priest all through BC. I use to play Divine Spirit/Holy spec so i know what it is like to heal without CoH. A lot of times I even heal without using CoH and i even have used PoH in fights at times. I lived without CoH for the longest time and I can honestly tell you it isn't fun which is what healers heal for. I am one of those priests that only spam CoH when time comes to it. When a raid takes lots of AoE damage I would love to use PoH if it didn't just effect my party and only lasted a couple casts before I was OOM. I had other things to do than raid much more than t4 content but on fights like Hex Lord Malacrass, I found it necessary to spam CoH. It is only fights like those that I have had to spam it otherwise I use a variety of my spells.

    My point being is that if people didn't QQ like 3 year olds Blizzard might listen to what they have to say about priests.

    My opinion on the matter is not a QQ comment its just a suggestion. I do understand that CoH but a bit OP but if the nerf was because of it healing for too much the healing from it should have been decreased a bit (Not by so much that it isn't worth using but you get my point). If it was honestly because priests didn't use the other spells then why not change them? When i say change i do not mean Buff them to match CoH and make Priests the Godly Healers. I mean just change them..like reduce the mana cost on PoH by a small amount and make it a raid heal like CoH. I used to have to use PoH back when even CoH was a party heal and it was just fine...It healed for alot it just sent me OOM too quickly. Even reducing the cast time to 2 seconds might so some good if it doesn't cause PoH to become overpowered.

    Catch my drift? Feel free to comment

  8. #48

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    only thing i can say is CoH healing isnt fun. Its a race to see who can whack a mole with a bazooka. Just my opinion. Blizzard game design led to its spam but if they back away or give other classes or specs a way to deal with mass aoe damage situations then its fine. personally I find the main tank or OT healing roles more exciting but that is because it isnt mindless button mashing and raid member clicking. Its timing, prevention and understanding incoming damage within a fight. I say make it less mana efficient the more you spam it.. kinda like Arcane Blast for a mage.

  9. #49

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by DStaller
    I have played a priest all through BC. I use to play Divine Spirit/Holy spec so i know what it is like to heal without CoH. A lot of times I even heal without using CoH and i even have used PoH in fights at times. I lived without CoH for the longest time and I can honestly tell you it isn't fun which is what healers heal for. I am one of those priests that only spam CoH when time comes to it. When a raid takes lots of AoE damage I would love to use PoH if it didn't just effect my party and only lasted a couple casts before I was OOM. I had other things to do than raid much more than t4 content but on fights like Hex Lord Malacrass, I found it necessary to spam CoH. It is only fights like those that I have had to spam it otherwise I use a variety of my spells.

    My point being is that if people didn't QQ like 3 year olds Blizzard might listen to what they have to say about priests.

    My opinion on the matter is not a QQ comment its just a suggestion. I do understand that CoH but a bit OP but if the nerf was because of it healing for too much the healing from it should have been decreased a bit (Not by so much that it isn't worth using but you get my point). If it was honestly because priests didn't use the other spells then why not change them? When i say change i do not mean Buff them to match CoH and make Priests the Godly Healers. I mean just change them..like reduce the mana cost on PoH by a small amount and make it a raid heal like CoH. I used to have to use PoH back when even CoH was a party heal and it was just fine...It healed for alot it just sent me OOM too quickly. Even reducing the cast time to 2 seconds might so some good if it doesn't cause PoH to become overpowered.

    Catch my drift? Feel free to comment
    I was like you, I went disc deep enough to pick up imp spirit for everyone and never specced into CoH. For most of the time I've played my character it was like this, and I found myself still on par and "topping the meter" with deeper holy priests up until hyjal/BT where I decided to respec for raid progression. Since then I've mostly stayed CoH.

    CoH is an OP spell right now, I would rather have it be turned back into what it was before rather then add a 6 second cooldown to it. It's not a rightful fix, it's a kill shot to a spell that probably shouldn't have been buffed to begin with. I can understand a c/d of that length on wild growth since it continues to tick, but I believe this was a very poorly thought out solution to minimize the amount of priests that get by with CoH accounting for 80% + of their healing.
    I do like the fact that we're going to have to use CoH wisely, for those who still spec into it. But it's a fairly weak spell when clicked once in comparison to other aoe heals and I cant help but wonder..will people really bother? Or will we just replace it completely with a roll of renews, PoM and flash heals?

    I know I'll be just fine without it, we have a lot to work with and I'm not worried about my "place in raids". I just feel like the way it's gone about is a bit of a slap in the face to the priest community...even the best of us don't have the "raid utility" of other healing classes. When it comes down to it, alot of decent priests are going to be considered extra fill ins to complete a raid.

    As long as they don't touch PoM I'm good...

  10. #50

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xp

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapoo
    nerf CoH all you want, give me a poison cleansing plox
    Yes, Finnaly thats the smartest thing ive read from this thread :P gief poison cleansing and who cares about CoH lol im sure we can deal without it

  11. #51

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Make lightwell heals clear poison and disease on every tick. Two birds with one stone.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  12. #52

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Cuz healing meters matter right?
    I participated in the legendary BACON thread.

  13. #53
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    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    COH 2.5 sec cast and each heal loose 50% of heal on a target ?
    haha shaman have to cast i forgot that and 50% less heal on each target
    COH instant and i think you guys should be happy with 6sec because i think that spell need 10sec CD

  14. #54

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Poh when used correctly is one of the highest if not the highest heal per mana spells in the game people just need to get re-aquinted with using it. In bc healing with some of the best healers I've played with in 3 years I was always #1 on the charts. Coh needs to be nerfed. I solo healed the armani bear run with the exception of the last boss, it is completely and unquestionably op. There are a ton of issues with our class right now and coh having a cd should be bottom of the list. See the looong blue post on priests today if you want a clue into the real issues with our class.

  15. #55

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by DStaller
    I had other things to do than raid much more than t4 content but on fights like Hex Lord Malacrass, I found it necessary to spam CoH. It is only fights like those that I have had to spam it otherwise I use a variety of my spells.
    The only fight I would see an issue with coh having a cd and since is not current content hopefully bliz wont design a fight with aoe this intense. At the same time with a good group coh wasn't entirely necessary but in a terrible group coh enabled 1 priest to carry weaker players through the fight in much stronger aoe.

  16. #56

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    11k ProM crits? Is your ProM suddenly critting for 200% healing instead of 150%? Screenshot or it didn't happen.

    Again I want to see a screenshot of an instant (non crittable) flashheal healing for 9.8k.

    CoH for 7k yeah right. Screenshot or it didn't happen. I think you just pull those numbers out of your ass TBH. Healing crits for 150% not 200%.

    With ~2200 spellpower those numbers aren't going to happen. Punctum.
    Not to say he isn't full of bull but if you consider context he could be looking at recount high to low and taking the very highest figure. You have to consider that heal could have landed on a class with increased healing taken in their spec. A screen shot would be nice. But I would guess this would be feasible under the exact right conditions hitting the exact right player. Maybe it only happened once and is therefore not fair to quote as to why priests are viable but that does't mean his coh has never once hit for 7k (though I have never seen this myself)

  17. #57

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    The only fights Paladins should be beating you is 10m Sarth with drakes up if you only bring two healers and to a lesser extent Patchwerk. Keep in mind Beacon of Light only heals two targets, and the Beacon is only healed for the actual amount healed, so if the Paladin gets sniped on the first heal, they're really getting sniped on two heals (and it happens a lot).

    It sounds like you are overvaluing meters. Meters are just terrible at representing how good a player someone is. I play a Paladin and at the end of Naxx, I am almost always last in terms of overall healing done. But I have never, ever, ever had my performance questioned. When the time comes where Paladins shine, I do my job. So long as you prove yourself as a player, your raid leader should not ever be questioning you based on meters.

    If a Holy Paladin judges Light and requests the other Paladins judge something else, they will almost always top the meters. But, a Holy JoLight heals for less than a Retr or even Prot judgement would, thus a Holy Paladin judging Light is actually hurting the raid as a whole. Ask yourself, would you judge Light anyways, just to top the meters, if you played a Holy Paladin?

    Meters =/= all. Just play your class well and you will keep getting raid spots.

  18. #58

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by enqi
    Priests will remain one of the strongest healing class in both PvE and PvP after 3.0.8 & 3.1.
    Less whining please, learn to play instead.



    CoH nerf will classify the priests into noobs or pro's.
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  19. #59

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    CoH for 7k yeah right. Screenshot or it didn't happen. I think you just pull those numbers out of your ass TBH. Healing crits for 150% not 200%.
    I was assuming he meant total healing done. Though that sort of heal was trivial in BC. So don't know. I cannot believe it has scaled up that obscenely. Health pools roughly double and CoH is now tripled in healing?

  20. #60

    Re: They say they dont understand why priests are QQing ova this nerf, i will xplain

    Quote Originally Posted by Drstorm
    Priests at the moment are the jack of all trades, master of none, which to be honest I like. But this nerf is just taking the P***.
    I'll remember this next time I need an off tank. The priest can do it. I think you have priests confused with paladins here. Although you could argue this ideology is completely outdated to begin with because since Wrath all classes can be tops in everything they can do.

    The one thing we had over other classes was our aoe heals. Now we are left with a weak heal with a 6 second cool down and a large heal which costs ridiculous amounts of mana and has an obscene casting times.
    No you didn't have aoe heals over every caster. COH is not chain heal. Shamans lead the group healing (aoe healing), and druids and paladins can even group (aoe) heal it is just done differently. You also still have holy nova which is a true aoe heal that heals for about as much as COH does and a 3 second cast time that takes 48% of base mana is relatively nothing with decent gear because your mana pool should be pushing 20k and haste should be pushing that 3 seconds down to 2.5.

    I would argue paladins can do better AOE heals, with BoL, than us now, which is unfair as they can dish out 1 million k crits on a traget with a 1 second cast aswell.
    Pulling bullshit numbers out of your ass does not help your argument. Paladin healers have to WORK to group heal. Priests spam one button to do it currently. If you don't see an issue there you are a moron.

    Druids just can hot up all the targets and lol while shamans have chain heal. The one thing we had over other classes, we have just lost, fair?
    Druids have to WORK to keep those hots on everyone. They don't spam one button, and in many cases those hots simply aren't enough, and druids have to deal with that situation. Shamans spam chain heal cause the rest of their heals are broken currently. I'm sure they would kill for a mana efficient single target heal that would be worth casting so that they don't have to spam one button all of the time (sort of like a priest has).

    Renew and PoM are awesome spells - but when competing with a pala on patchwork, do we really stand a chance?
    If you are in the tank group spamming POH and POM you are probably going to top the charts on that fight because your heals will land on all three targets at once and if you heals max the other people in the group then the paladin can't heal the beacon target by healing them which is a draw back of beacon currently.

    I used to rejoice on AOE damage fights like saphiron where for once I stood a fair chance of beating my pala rival ( I say fair chance coz i beat him anyway due to pure skill) but know i have to focus to compete while he spanks up the FoL, heals 2 targets then instant cast holy shocks to heal 10,000 Hps, while now i can press CoH of once then /cry.
    Holy shock is the last thing you want to cast as a holy paladin. I doubt it crits for 10k (you like to make up numbers), is on a 6 second cool down already (I thought you didn't like 6 second cool downs apparently), and its still lost on you that the paladin has to actually work to heal instead of just press one button.

    Please, i understand if you are gnna nerf CoH, its an awesome move, maybe too awesome, but please buff something else in response. Like take off the CD of Gs
    So your solution to removing the lazy heal of CoH is to allow you to use GS with no cool down so now you can just let the tank drop to 0 whenever you want then cast a heal that brings them back to 50%.

    It is lazy assed healers like you that think they should be able to top the meters by spamming one button that got CoH nerfed. Nothing you have said is anything but justification for that nerf. When pressing one button gets you more heal per second and better overall healing than classes that have to work to get those same numbers then that spell needs a nerf.
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