DW vs Skull Clad Cleaver

[micrious]

Which weapon(s) do you think I should use while Tanking?

Red Sword Of Courage + Slayer of the Lifeless
25str + 58stam + 38def + 26hit \ + 29str + 57stam + 25def + 26dodge + 19 hit

total = 54str, 115stam, 63def, 26dodge(0,66%), 45hit

vs

Skull Clad Cleaver
90str, 54agi, 94stam, 90 haste


DW gains: +21stam + 63def(~12,8) + 26dodge(0,66%) + 45hit
DW loose: - 54agi(~0,7%dodge) - 36str(9 parry rating, 0,2%) - 90haste(2,74%)

Is the loss of stam and defence worth the few points to dodge\agi, strenght and haste?
I've heared most ppl use 2h for tanking, but since my current 1h tanking weapons are so "good" is the change worth it?

Thank you in advance

[Natorius]

For the love of god, stop dual wield tanking.

[Bohrizan]

This ^

[micrious]

But I look awesome :'(

250 hit rating while DW btw, so don't miss thaaat much.
I'm asking because I'm not sure, so why should I stop DW? :P

[Natorius]

Because every single time I've ever grouped with any dual wield tank for any reason in any instance or raid, I've been threat capped, and I'm not even geared to the point of doing 3500+ dps like a lot of people are.

And saying you "don't miss thaaat much" is ridiculous... If you're missing -at all- while tanking there's a problem.

It's not the defense stats that I'm writing off, I'm not even considering parry haste, it's all a threat issue, dual wield threat is terrible and a half.

[Gamehenge]

But I look awesome :'(

250 hit rating while DW btw, so don't miss thaaat much.
I'm asking because I'm not sure, so why should I stop DW? :P

With that amount of hit rating you're still missing on huge amount of white dmg hits. So you might as well go use a 2 hander since you gain nothing by dw in this case. It's like jerking off with sand paper, sure go for it if that's what you're into, still doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do.

[tvveeder]

Can you stay above 540 def skill going 2h and putting parry on it (for now until the patch comes out)? What is your avoidance? What spec are you when tanking? Are you having single target threat output issues? What runes weapons are you using? If you do dual sword breaking on your DW and choose stonesking gargoyle in the patch you will gain about 12 def skill but lose 4% parry. If you just stick to parry on your 2h'er then you maintain your avoidance (for the most part) and lose 13 def skill. You have to consider your rune weapons in the equation as well. There are many variables to tanking and it should be approached mathematically for the most part and these are questions that need to be addressed when asking. Also you have to look at the pros and cons...

DW - you will have more consistent threat generation and higher white damage for a higher base threat generation without abilities, but you may have to gimp tank stats to try to buff your hit rating (to a certain degree, it doesn't need to be capped but you can't just sit at 5% hit like you could with a 2h'er). Also most of you're abilities will hit for less (primarily rune strike in the patch which will be awesome with its threat modifier) so you will generate less threat with them (although frost is an exception for this since icy touch and howling blast don't rely on weapon damage).

2H - Spikier threat generation, rely on diseases to be your threat consistency, but can buff more tank stats on gear (primarily stam and avoidance if you can stay above 540 def) and skimp on hit rating. Also on top of that your abilities will do more damage so you're threat will rely even more on mashing those buttons. The con is that you will never receive any tank stats (besides stam) from any 2h'er you will ever get, so the 2h'er itself will gimp your tank stats to a certain degree (granted it will be a marginal decrease but regardless it's a gimp).

All in all what I'm saying is if you NEED the defensive boost DW will be your best bet, if you don't need the defensive boost and you could put on a 2h'er then it will more than likely buff your single target threat generation (unless you are a blood tank in the patch with heart strike upon which a 2h weapon would be mandatory in my eyes). Although really if I was going to be tanking with a 2h weapon I would most likely grab the titansteel destroyer and get 124 str, 105 stam, and 45 hit over the 90 str, 54 agi, 94 stam, and 90 haste. Marginal stam increase, good str increase, I don't know if its a weapon DPS increase, and the hit rating is always nice in tanking. If you don't want to buy or farm mats for that you could also go for Edge of Oblivion (yes I know it's a blue but it does have 115 stam, 80 str, and 74 haste) or sword of justice (70 str, 105 stam, 77 crit, and socketable) and socket it with str and stam or just stam. If you socket it with stam then it has 129 stam on there. I just listed two easy blues, there are probably better epics for 2h tanking if you have them easily accessible.

[Bullshifter]

How would he have even more consistent threat generation and higher white damage as DW with that severe lack of hit?

[micrious]

wow... :-X
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...lvanas&n=Xaxaz

Would you just swap the dodge trinket with the 65def one form hol?

So I can still swap without resocketing?

I am planning to go blood when 2H, and with parry enchant.

"To bull"
I haven't gone 2H tank yet, but I have no trouble maintaining threat in 25\10 man naxx. yet.

[tvveeder]

I said more consistent threat but that doesn't mean more threat overall. The best way I was relating was in the sense of using a fast weapon as a prot war instead of a slow weapon. Fast swings = more consistent threat (more hits in less time) but doesn't always mean more threat. I know you have the variable of hit differential here but regardless if you have any hit rating (and I've seen quite a few tank pieces with hit and expertise rating) then you won't be missing ALL the time but yes you will be missing more, but even regardless of that fact you will be swinging faster, getting more hits in a shorter time frame, and producing more consistent threat. I never said it was MORE threat, I said more consistent and there is a big difference. Hell even with low hit rating you will still probably produce more consistent threat even with the misses. The only thing I will retract that I did say was the higher white DPS because that isn't necessarily true, the only way I'd say white dps is higher with DW is if you do have the hit rating to support (so you are correct in that regard), but if you can hold 8% or more I'd say DW has higher white dps (especially if you are a frost DK).

Personally I favor 2h tanking on my dk.

[Bullshifter]

Yah, I wasn't trying to jump on anything, just trying to understand. Thanks.

[Croz730]

you need more hit then that to be capped with a 2h (295.11 according to EJ) , let alone DW.

[Gomexus]

This is an abomination of the 32/39 spec for DW that you could probably get away with for tanking and threat generation:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

It keeps the general idea of Impurity/Virulence with KM and HB...picks up the tanking talents at the cost of Icy Talons and Imp Icy Talons.

It will still do decent dps and it negates the need for huge amounts of +hit. You miss out on Acclimation, Perma-Ghoul, and Gargoyle...but it looks like it would be a good spec to use if you mix tanking and dpsing (at least until dual spec hits.

[honage140]

Threat capping is based on the player's skill, not because of dual wield. I push nearly 4k single target. Put out sometihng like 5k on malygos phase one. Our DW DK tank had more than enough room to spare.

As for the "ZOMG PARRY GIBBING" Argument, don't bring it here. It's really not that big a difference and all bosses in the game hit for weaksauce anyways. Plus DKs have a ton of active short CD defence moves. The only thing that's annoying about your weps is both are fast. If you can wait for the 2.5 speed tank wep from naxx, do it. It's a huge threat increase over a fast tank wep. Either way, grab a copy of a slow one hander for threat needs.

[Bullshifter]

you need more hit then that to be capped with a 2h (295.11 according to EJ) , let alone DW.

Actually the folks at EJ have proven after thousands upon thousands of swings that the cap with a 2h is 263 hit (8%). Dual wield is 27%, though as a DPS DW'er I'd probably only shoot for the spell hit cap at 17%. Though dps isn't really what the thread is about.