Thread: PTR 3.0.8 - Build 9464

Originally Posted by Clarkis2001

Well this thread has a lot of angry people in it but I'm not one of them. Just for the record my main is a Warlock (Zaef) and my alt is a Druid (Liefellen) both on the Shattered Hand server.

I can tell you that Warlocks are in the worst PvP situation right now followed closely by Shadow Priests. The "nerf" to Starfall does suck (I'm Resto spec now but have a lot of experience with the Balance build) but it is far from the worst 51 point talent my friends.

Chaos Bolt and Haunt are two end-tree talents that have significant casting times and do minimal damage. Of all the casters Warlocks are the only class to have an end-tree talent that has a casting time and to make it worse we have it in two trees. Now, I'm not disagreeing that the Starfall nerf is a bummer but the spell is still an instant cast/non-channeled AoE spell that does a fair amount of damage considering you hit one button and forget about it.

The other caster AoE spells (Blizzard, Reign of Fire, Mind Sear as well as Hurricane) are channeled so they can be interrupted not to mention the caster cannot DPS while the spell is in effect. I just hope that Balance Druids realize that this is not the worse 51 talent and that it's still a decent (though nerfed) ability. =D

You seem to forget starfall stops casting if you get stunned, feared or if someone farts in your general direction. In pvp that means any decent team will make sure the damage of it is close to nothing.
In pve its uses are so limited, an aoe on a 3 minute cooldown really doesn't help that much. The fact its range is so huge just makes it near impossible to use it often and the damage is honestly pathetic for its cooldown.

I do agree warlocks have issues, Blizzard just messed up their design for WoTLK pvp. They're just too stupid to realise or too stubborn to change it. But that has nothing to do with the fact moonkin aren't really doing swell either.

Seeing as they removed all uses for starfall, i'd rather just have them replace it with starwall or something. We need a proper defensive ability.

Originally Posted by Clarkis2001

Well this thread has a lot of angry people in it but I'm not one of them. Just for the record my main is a Warlock (Zaef) and my alt is a Druid (Liefellen) both on the Shattered Hand server.

I can tell you that Warlocks are in the worst PvP situation right now followed closely by Shadow Priests. The "nerf" to Starfall does suck (I'm Resto spec now but have a lot of experience with the Balance build) but it is far from the worst 51 point talent my friends.

Chaos Bolt and Haunt are two end-tree talents that have significant casting times and do minimal damage. Of all the casters Warlocks are the only class to have an end-tree talent that has a casting time and to make it worse we have it in two trees. Now, I'm not disagreeing that the Starfall nerf is a bummer but the spell is still an instant cast/non-channeled AoE spell that does a fair amount of damage considering you hit one button and forget about it.

The other caster AoE spells (Blizzard, Reign of Fire, Mind Sear as well as Hurricane) are channeled so they can be interrupted not to mention the caster cannot DPS while the spell is in effect. I just hope that Balance Druids realize that this is not the worse 51 talent and that it's still a decent (though nerfed) ability. =D

As for the Rogues on here let me say this: you will still destroy clothies with ease so have no worries. On top of the Warlock's newfound end-game gimp PvP status, Rogues have been destroying us ever since CoS was introduced and no doubt it shall continue. I can't tell what specs the Rogues are that have been manhandling me and I don't know the details about the Rogue trees but sitting on nearly 700 resil I can say that I still get double Ambushed frequently and am dead within seconds following some miscellaneous other ability.

Even if the crit damage of Ambush is reduced 30% there is rarely any stunlocking involved in my death currently. So following the patch, the double Ambush approach will just require some minor CC until you find a way to make up that 30% and kill me.

It's sad but true. If this change means you cannot kill plate classes as easily well then I'd say that's balanced: you wear leather and can destroy non-Feral Druid specs as well as all clothies (save maybe Disc priests as they seem immortal) which accounts for a large majority of the classes. That should bring you some comfort! =p

Wow! I did NOT know that if you are stunned or Feared after hitting the Starfall button that the ability would cease. This does in fact greatly diminish the usefulness of the spell.

However having had to face Balance Druids in PvP I found it difficult to get a Fear off as it was due to the:
1) Treant spell delay (which though the mechanic has been improved is understandably still annoying for all caster classes)
2) the Starfall stun procs
3) the Starfire stun procs
4) and the spell interrupt of Typhoon.

Perhaps Blizzard just thought it was too much CC right off the bat against other casters? I am still really shocked that the ability is interrupted if the Druid is stunned or Feared. This is good to know though for future fights!

Just remember pvp isn't 1vs1.
You or your teammate should easily be able to cc the druid some way, certainly if the druid uses starfall at the beginning of a match, when you still have all cool downs ready.

Anyway I don't get why anyone would use starfall anymore after this. It'll only break cc and that's it. The damage is low, it doesn't break stealth anymore and it doesn't stun.

ps. If you let a druid cast starfire, you need more practice.

Originally Posted by Panoramixe

Just remember pvp isn't 1vs1.
You or your teammate should easily be able to cc the druid some way, certainly if the druid uses starfall at the beginning of a match, when you still have all cool downs ready.

Anyway I don't get why anyone would use starfall anymore after this. It'll only break cc and that's it. The damage is low, it doesn't break stealth anymore and it doesn't stun.

ps. If you let a druid cast starfire, you need more practice.

Well I'm not a professional PvP player but I can assure you that when I'm evenly matched (usually only against other Warlocks) I can hold my own. That being said when I, or anyone, is stunned there's very little a player can do. In arena, the few times I've dealt with Balance Druids, my partner would get CCd by the non-Druid partner (be it a silence or stun but normally we find Druids with Mages) thus leaving me to deal with the Druid as the Mage would have since Ice Blocked. Starfall has ALWAYS procced and stunned me before I could get a Fear off thus giving the Druid time to cast Starfire/Typhoon/Wrath spam. In addition my Felguard's attacks normally trigger the Owlkin frenzy thus reducing the pushback suffered from my partner's melee attacks. It is a vicious cycle: to hit or not to hit the Moonkin?

Now don't get me wrong I'm not QQing here (I've tried very hard not to throughout all of my posts because it's already been done so much). I'm just stating that the proc frequency from my experience has always nailed me. Lowering that chance or even reducing the stun duration may have been a better alternative rather than to eliminate it entirely from Starfall.

Well you could just trinket the first stun and go for a death coil => fear combo. Even if the moonkin trinkets the fear, starfall will pretty much be over by then anyway.

But I do understand warlocks. They have lost everything they had in TBC and have been given little in retun. The big strength warlocks had was the fact they died slowly and that their dots would do quite nice damage over time, Blizzard nerfed both by removing/lowering the defences and letting dots be weakened by resilience.

I just don't get why it takes them so long to figure out a way to give locks a fighting chance. And no resilience won't change anything and yes the health pools of the overpowered classes, paladins and death knights, grow faster than that of cloth/leather users.

Originally Posted by andreas cy

as a rogue i hate to see the ambush nerf.... i hope ppl finally stop whining cz this really ia A HUGE NERF on our burst...happy now?? stop qq


oh and remember to nerf DK and retri a bit more pls

This user has been permanently banned for this post.

Wo..You can get banned for saying something like this??

Just wanted to note that the Titanguard for weapons was pulled from the PTR. This was on the front page of mmo 3 days ago .
Here is the reasoning for it:

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)

Had this enchant gone live it would have become THE enchant for nearly all tanks. It would not have been an interesting choice. We would have had to keep introducing higher tiers of the same enchant, or else players would just keep using this version for perpetuity. We put Stamina already on many items. We don't think your weapon needs one as well. I received messages from several tanks for very prominent guilds asking us to please not go forward with this enchant. They understood why it was bad for the game.

Death knights have access to superior enchants in part because they do not have a shield or ranged weapon slot and the stats provided by those items.

The PTR is for testing. If you find yourself frustrated that things change between the PTR and live, I would suggest you stop paying attention to the PTR notes. Even if a change like this had already gone live, we probably would have changed it anyway. We did not like what this enchant would have done for the game.

And

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)

There are already stamina enchants on many pieces of gear. Casters can go that route of stacking spellpower on as much gear as possible, but if they ignore int and mana regen, that spellpower will be for naught. With tanks, we have found that given the choice between stamina and anything else (assuming you are comparing things of equivalent level) stamina will always win. One of the few enchants where you actually have a decison would be replaced by yet another stamina enchant. I am pretty confident the same thing would happen with a stamina to cloak enchant.

Here is the player's point of view: Ah, an enchant for my weapon. That will help me survive and help out my healers, therefore making me a slightly better tank. Maybe I'll be slightly better prepared for KT or Sarth + 3 or Ulduar. Awesome.

Except... here is the developer's point of view: Okay, we just buffed every tank in the game by 750 health. That means we now have to make every mob hit slightly harder to compensate. Otherwise we are just buffing tank survivability for no reason. The net effect to you would be pretty negligible in the long run, while any tank who chose not to put stamina on his or her weapon would suddenly be at a disadvantage.

we can now conclude the song im listening to know > rogue nerfs/buffs (or whatever the hell is going on)