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  1. #1

    If you want fireball - PVE

    This is probably the best deep fire (fireball) spec, for those who doesn't have enough crit rating for FBB.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

    If you got the boss snared all the time, then this one will be a success.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

    The bonus from TTW and Spell Impact will buff your fireball wildly, and with fireball glyph (+5% crit), there will be lots of crits.

    I haven't seen any spec like this in this forum, even though it has potential.
    Fireball + 15% damage bonus from gear
    + 28% damage bonus from talents
    (spell impact 6%, TTW 12%, fire power 10%)

    Big crits and great non-crit damage. Maybe it could give FBB a run for the money?
    Considering the graphic change of fireball, you might wanna pick this spec :P

    Would you pick the fireball spec, rather than FBB??


  2. #2

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    If you're going for maximum damage why would you skip Playing With Fire?

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=071915000000

    ^ would make more sense. Keep in mind though you lack the 3% hit from Elemental Precision that would have to be made up for in gear, not sure how it'd work out stat wise vs dps.

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Azmaeth
    If you got the boss snared all the time, then this one will be a success.
    3.0.8 is the success :>

  5. #5

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    I'd rather have incineration than playing with fire, because of the 6% extra crit on scorch and fire blast. If you have to move, then you have a higher possibility to trigger hot streak - I don't thing fire blast is a waste of mana, even though it is expensive. Besides, when you have to apply imp scorch, it would be great to start out with: LB, Scorch (crit), scorch (crit), pyro (hot streak) to start off with most possible damage.

    I chose magic attunement instead of student of the mind, because of the amplify magic spell. That talent wasn't because of dps, rather the opportunity to give members (tanks primarily) some extra survival against non-magic bosses (382,5 bonus healing).

  6. #6

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    There is no possible way that more crit on scorch is better than a flat 3% damage increase. Scorch ends up being like 1.5% of your total damage and even though it does trigger hot streak...it's still fairly useless to buff it rather than buff your overall damage. ESPECIALLY if you have other mages in your raid refreshing scorch or winter's chill...there's no contest.

  7. #7

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    flame throwing doesn't do a thing for your dps or longevity how about going below to get an extra 20% regen while casting...

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=071915000000

  8. #8

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    flame throwing doesn't do a thing for your dps or longevity how about going below to get an extra 20% regen while casting...

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=071915000000
    Ah true, true. Thats is a much more solid build.

  9. #9

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Azmaeth
    This is probably the best deep fire (fireball) spec, for those who doesn't have enough crit rating for FBB.
    One thing that was mentioned but is being over looked in this thread is that a 18/53 spec requires 3% more hit rating on gear than a 0/53/18 spec. One of the biggest benefits of a frostfire spec is that it is alot easier to become hitcapped, thus being able to stack more crit on gear. Result, higher over all dps with a lower gear level. Come 3.0.8 this will not change. A fireball spec will still require 14% hit from gear, which is very possible with the right gear setup. Although that gear setup is pretty much best in the game at the moment. Before that you lose far too much dps with the loss in stats and the loss in hit from talents.

    With that said, for fire to be top dps, you also require quite a bit of spell power(~2000) unbuffed while remaining hit capped. Again this is very doable with the current top end raid gear. This is however not an entry level raid spec.

    With that said, the "optimal" fire spec will depend on what blizzard is planning on doing with the Pyromaniac talent. There were talks of it becoming 30% mana regen while casting instead of 3% reduced mana cost on spells. It will also depend on how the nerf to Judgement of Wisdom will effect fires mana regen. Currently the fire spec is very expencive and very hard to maintain well. Replenishment becomes a necessity where as FFB can probably get away without it on most fights.

    I hope fire does make a comeback, the 18 points in arcane vs frost make it much less bursty and less dependant on RNG. I personally like the sustained, predictable damage output of fireball. However, taking into account the lower hit cap, the better mana effeciancy, the higher crit damage, and Icy Veins, the 0/53/18 frostfire bolt spec will probably still be top damage overall for a while longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azmaeth
    Would you pick the fireball spec, rather than FBB??
    Short answer, Not yet. Definitly come future raids with better itemization.

  10. #10

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker
    Short answer, Not yet. Definitly come future raids with better itemization.
    or in 3.0.8 with TtW fireball is getting a huge buff and looks to be better than putting points into frost...

  11. #11

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    or in 3.0.8 with TtW fireball is getting a huge buff and looks to be better than putting points into frost...
    Did you even read his whole post??

    the entire thing made sense. read it again.

  12. #12

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Zongo
    Did you even read his whole post??

    the entire thing made sense. read it again.
    ummm, yeah. see my posts up there i don't agree with points into frost post 3.0.8 for a fire spec. even posted a build to counter the ideals of the op and the topic i commented on. did you read it? still not sure read this...

    "The next important talent that is going to be different is "Precision". We will have to make up for the 3% hitchance that we lose by speccing for 18/53/0 this is where people say "See? here it boils down to the same anyways", but as we will see, this is not true at all. If we assume, that we have to replace 3% hitchance, we will have to get about 79 hitrating more than before, because 1% hitchance is 26,23 hitrating.
    If we now assume that we have to replace 79 critrating with 79 hitrating, that would only lower our critchance by 1.71%, due to the fact that 1% critchance equals a critical strike rating of 45,91."

    from the guys at ej:
    http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t38676-u...e_changes/p22/

  13. #13

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerian
    If you're going for maximum damage why would you skip Playing With Fire?
    If you are going for maximum damage why would you go with a fire ball build to begin with. Saying FFB is dependent on crit but fireball isn't is funny. If you don't have decent crit then go frost which is still a little less reliant on crit. Being fire is all about having the minimum crit needed for it.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  14. #14

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=071519010000

    Wouldn't this be the maximum dps output with this spec?

  15. #15

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Choda
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=071519010000

    Wouldn't this be the maximum dps output with this spec?
    no. the spec above seems to be the best spec to dps with fire/arcane. since arcane subtlety gives lb a 30% chance to no be dispelled and 2 points arcane meditation is better than flame throwing for sheer dps. having 5 points into arcane stability is not needed either as missiles is a dps waste w/o the proc from deep arcane. and 4% spirit is better than 40 resistance...

  16. #16

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    The only thing I'm wondering is why would 4% spirit be better than the resistance? That spec doesn't convert spirit into spell damage and the mana regeneration is... extremely low either way since mages rely on gems and evocation (Which is no longer spirit based). And of course, we don't really have any mana problems at the moment.

    As for the 30% chance to dispell LB... I have yet to encounter a raid boss that dispells debuffs from himself in WotLK, but since you're right about arcane stability (I was actually gonna try making a deep arcane build, not sure how I got derailed) I guess it doesn't matter.

  17. #17

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Choda
    The only thing I'm wondering is why would 4% spirit be better than the resistance? That spec doesn't convert spirit into spell damage and the mana regeneration is... extremely low either way since mages rely on gems and evocation (Which is no longer spirit based). And of course, we don't really have any mana problems at the moment.

    As for the 30% chance to dispell LB... I have yet to encounter a raid boss that dispells debuffs from himself in WotLK, but since you're right about arcane stability (I was actually gonna try making a deep arcane build, not sure how I got derailed) I guess it doesn't matter.
    you get nothing for dps from all of the tier 1 arcane talents. might as well tack on the dispel to lb, might help in pvp. some buff to a spell you use is better than a buff to a spell you don't. also your getting 20% mana while casting 4% spirit works with that. it's minor but might get you an extra fireball increasing dps. since evocation decreases dps and a mama jewel uses a gcd will give you that one or two extra casts before you need to use one. flame throwing doesn't give you dps the others do. hopefully your not getting hit by spells so the resistances should be less important. you really need more than 40 to get anything out of it. i think its arround 200 when you actually resist a spell fully...

  18. #18
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    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=071519010607

    is more of what you want for fireball.


    you can ether chose 40 resistance or 4% spirt

    40 resistance + motw~ kinda deal....... resist, 1% mana. hi. compared to 4% spirit..... (for me.. like 19 spirit? gg)
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  19. #19

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    no. the spec above seems to be the best spec to dps with fire/arcane. since arcane subtlety gives lb a 30% chance to no be dispelled and 2 points arcane meditation is better than flame throwing for sheer dps. having 5 points into arcane stability is not needed either as missiles is a dps waste w/o the proc from deep arcane. and 4% spirit is better than 40 resistance...
    True

    Considering one or two points into arcane meditation and the possible modificaiton of pyromaniac to 30% passive regen instead of 3% flat cost reduction, you will favor an increase in spirit over 40 resistance.

  20. #20

    Re: If you want fireball - PVE

    Why wouldnt you just use this with FFB, but actually go fireball?
    Because of the overall damage from a fireball, compared to the quicker FFB?
    Fireball'ing will burn through your mana pretty quick aswell, so I guess this could perhaps be gear-related?

    And personally I think I could take 2p from World in Flames and put them in Flamethrowing, sometimes its just, nice with range

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