1. #1

    Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    I've been workin on this idea since expansion, it seems that for bosses that parrygib expertise cap might be worth it. Overall that tank would take a moderate amount more damage, but they would take a lot less spike damage. I figure going to the hypothetical 15% expertise cap for bosses. I would imagine I would take about 9% less less damage, vs the 12.499% dodge I would gain...... I think I just answered my own question... good job me... but I already typed this all out so might as well post it to see what other people think. Of course, the gear for this is going to be quite hard to get since 65% of the gear has parry or hit for its 3rd stat, and I could finally use reckoning.

  2. #2

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    As a druid tank without your block or parry mitigation, expertise is worth a large amount, often cited as more than hit, since dodges and parries are also effectively misses for threat generation and expertise stops both. Instead of sully expertise capping yourself, try hitting the parrygib cap at around 6.5% This isn't quite as bad for your item budget and gets you to the point where hasted parry attacks don't happen to you. Anything further is mitigating your front on chance to be dodged and at this point, you may be better going with Hit gear or other stats, not quite up with the wisdom on tankadins.

  3. #3

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Well... I always enjoy people thinking outside the box. However i just don't see the math behind it. If i could see the math that you did to come up with 9% that might help your argument.

    We only have 2 abilities (Hammer of Righteousness, Melee Swing) that can even be parried/dodged. Seal of Blood is also one, but if you use SoC/SoV for tanking that shouldn't be an issue.

    There are a couple scenarios that can happen when you parry.

    1. He just hit you before you parried and now you take twice the damage because you just reset his hit.
    2. He was just about to hit you before you parried and your parry had no effect on his next attack.
    3. Your parry took place somewhere in between.

    I'm unclear how you figure 9% extra damage but be sure that you're not assuming you will always take twice as much damage every time you parry, because that's just not the case.

    Another thing to consider is that most bosses are not strictly physical damage. If you look at all the fights in naxx you see almost a split down the middle of physical to spell damage on bosses. Theres no reason to gimp your other stats to get expertise and I've always geared for expertise last, even after hit.

    The point i'm trying to make is that to reach your 15% expertise cap the avoidance and mitigation you would loose to acquiring this high of an expertise rating would outweigh the damage you take from a boss who parries your attack. There are a few exceptions but itemization doesn't usually stack both dodge/parry on expertise items. There aren't very many items with both hit and expertise either, which means that the slots that don't have expertise are going to have hit, there in lies another problem. What slots do you have left for avoidance now?

    Go for Stam, Avoidance, Hit, Expertise as a pally. You only need 24 expertise as a pally i wouldn't bother attempting to go over this. Hope this helps make your decision.

  4. #4

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    i logged in just to post. yes, more expertise, more threat, less stupid people with 2-3 power sparks. I think blizzard has this stat tucked it their sleeve and will be releasing more 'best in slot' pieces with expertise come later on.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Emerald+Dream&n=Clii

  5. #5

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by clii
    i logged in just to post. yes, more expertise, more threat, less stupid people with 2-3 power sparks. I think blizzard has this stat tucked it their sleeve and will be releasing more 'best in slot' pieces with expertise come later on.
    Hit generates more threat than expertise for pallys. Next time save yourself the trouble, and don't log in. Just say wow that guy is an idiot and move on with your life. We are paladins not warriors. Expertise is not as good for us as it is for them.

  6. #6

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Parrygib is gone with Crushing blows. It still happens, yes, but if your tank dies to a parryhaste, you can chalk it up to healer failure. 95% of the wipes i've seen have the tank as the last 3-5 guys standing.

  7. #7

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solux
    As a druid tank without your block or parry mitigation, expertise is worth a large amount, often cited as more than hit, since dodges and parries are also effectively misses for threat generation and expertise stops both. Instead of sully expertise capping yourself, try hitting the parrygib cap at around 6.5% This isn't quite as bad for your item budget and gets you to the point where hasted parry attacks don't happen to you. Anything further is mitigating your front on chance to be dodged and at this point, you may be better going with Hit gear or other stats, not quite up with the wisdom on tankadins.
    Parrygib cap is ~15%; the dodge cap is ~6.5%, you'vegot those two the wrong way around mate. The dodge cap is pretty trivial to get to as a pally anyway (SoV glyph, talents, racials), although I don't realy think that the hard cap is worth it.

  8. #8

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    I think i have just 22 expertise atm which is around 50 expertise rating. Because i have 6 from talents and 10 from CoV. I wouldn't try to get any more than that. Like i said earlier. For pallys, hit > expertise.

  9. #9

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    I Like other stats before expertise honestly - hit , strength,Dodge, parry block , stam all those i would take way before expertise gear ( and not in that order ) also please dont be a noob and dont go for Spell power at all Like some of these pallys i seen post on this forum
    Pally- Dreamstate - Shu'Halo
    Shaman- Dreamkeeper - Shu'Halo

  10. #10

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    All i gotta say is WoW.magelo.com?

    This is wow, not EQ, use armory :-(

    I love eq but armory > magelo.

  11. #11

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by monalin
    All i gotta say is WoW.magelo.com?

    This is wow, not EQ, use armory :-(

    I love eq but armory > magelo.
    and i prefer Magelo over armory as you can see peoples glyphs etc. Regardless that dont deal with the topic now does it ?
    Pally- Dreamstate - Shu'Halo
    Shaman- Dreamkeeper - Shu'Halo

  12. #12

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    well it's very nice idea Zenzimer...but it's hard to reach 15%=60expetise[492 expetise rating(if u warrior or pala443 coz u have 6 points expertise in talents)] and u will not eat parry spikes but u will still eat magic attack spikes like Sartharion etc.so u need HP.DK blood specc have 11 expertise points in talents (veteran of the third war)and (blood gorged) so u'll need only 49 expertise=402 expertise rating if you r orc 5 expertise with axes so it's 44 exprtise =361... so u can get with end game tankin gear... see this thread
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...5378#msg535378

  13. #13

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by monalin
    Hit generates more threat than expertise for pallys. Next time save yourself the trouble, and don't log in. Just say wow that guy is an idiot and move on with your life. We are paladins not warriors. Expertise is not as good for us as it is for them.
    seems you are a trash tank so you don't expertise only MT need expetise...Shield of Righteousness and Hammer of Wrath need expertise if u r MT...

  14. #14

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by klaymen
    seems you are a trash tank so you don't expertise only MT need expetise...Shield of Righteousness and Hammer of Wrath need expertise if u r MT...
    What? You don't know what you're talking about. SoRighteousness cannot be parried or dodged. Only Hammer of Righteousness and Melee hits.

    Since when do you use Hammer of Wrath as a MT? Or any tank...

  15. #15

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by monalin
    Since when do you use Hammer of Wrath as a MT? Or any tank...
    Now I don't play a pally and have no tank comments but, if you're not a healing pally why would you not use hammer of wrath when the bosses hp is low enough....
    It not like a pally tank has a whole lot of things to use all of his gcd's on. (from what I hear)

  16. #16

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    We have quite a few things to use right now.

    Judgements, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of Righteousness, Consecrate, Holy Shield. More than enough too keep my roation up. Also in naxx we can use Exorcism and Holy Wrath.

    I'm not saying I never use it. But i might only get 1 or 2 off in a fight. At most 4.

  17. #17

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    do not go for expertise, it is an iferior stat for pally tanks. If you are worried about having spikey damage intake, then get block capped. Block capped means that you have 102.4% mitigation (old number for uncrushable). What this means is that for every hit you are not dodging,parrying,or missing - will be blocked, which effectively takes off 1-2K damage (depending on your block value). This means your intake will not be spikey, but very consistant. After you have 102.% avoidance and 540 def rating, i would focus on gemming for stam. I wouldnt worry too much about gemming for expertise or hit rating, as you will naturaly get them with upgrades. But as far as expertise, dont give up gear with superior avoidance stats just for expertise. Hit rating is a superior stat for pallys anyways, since we use spell damage to gain threat.

  18. #18

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    hammer of wrath does shit damage for the global cooldown it takes, (2K damage on a crit as apposed to 7K crit from SotR or 3.5 K from HotR.) It is a waste of a GCD and screws with rotation - good for retadins, not tankadins

  19. #19

    Re: Expertise cap worth if for tanking?

    Wrong, below 20% you can replace Exorcism (when its on CD) with HoW every 2nd round.

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