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  1. #1

    Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    ...the patch is released and Arcane is the new top PvE spec?


    I've looted lots of FFB based items from raiding with my guild. Would annoy me pretty bad if all the best in slot items for specific specs, suddenly switched because now I need to itemize for Arcane.

  2. #2

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    The same goes for me,

    at least with fireball it's basically exactly the same gear except you need to make up 3% hit somehow, but oh boy, arcane is a completely different story.

    According to simcraft arcane specs gain 0.89 dps per point of intellect, and 0.46 dps per point of spirit, making some gear peices with high damage stats (spell power, haste, crit) but with low intellect and spirit (almost all the best in slot FFB gear has no spirit - which is why they're best in slot, becuase without a large chunk of the item bonus taken up with worthless spirit, more can be distributed to raw dps stats) almost reduntant

    And anyway, at least FFB has exactly the same rotation as FB, except for the main nuke obviously!, and we're all used to FB back from TBC where it proved to be the optimal dps spec.
    I'm not looking forward to mastering the AB x ?? (3)/ABar/AMiss rotation anytime soon. Infact, i have made it my prerogative to steer clear from arcane over my 4 year wow history

    But wow is all about choice, and we don't need to switch to arcane just because it's "theoretically" the highest dps spec.

    Affliction locks are "theorectically" the highest dps of the casters, but i have yet to be beaten by one....
    so maybe, just maybe, arcane wont dish out all it's meant to

  3. #3

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Spellcaster
    and we don't need to switch to arcane just because it's "theoretically" the highest dps spec.
    lol that's why you went from fire in bc to ffb in wrath? its not the play style because they are the same. i get the gear complaints, but that comment is just a little funny. feel better though because in 3.0.8 you can go back to fire as its dps is getting a huge boost through TtW...

  4. #4

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    I sure as heck wont be going arcane...i found it annoying to keep your rotation solid with all the random procs of arcane missiles....sometimes it goes off in 1 ABla cast, sometimes 2 ABla's and 3 Abar's. :-X

    Since fire is going to keep the same gear and FFB will be losing the 3% ghost hit from precision ANYWAYS...I'll try fire vs ffb and see where i go, because fire was ALWAYS my favorite pve spec.

  5. #5

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    between random pyros ... ignites .. more dmg to a target at 20% .. combustion n all else im gonna go with Fire still being ontop some mages go "oh ive been doing 3700 - 3900 dps as arcane on the PTR" but ive yet to see a meter with it posted... sure 45% more dmg to arcane barrage is cute and all but when it comes down to it .. i truly believe fire is still gonna be on top as far as pve spec's go .. maybe by a difference of 400-500 dps

  6. #6

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kannetix
    between random pyros ... ignites .. more dmg to a target at 20% .. combustion n all else im gonna go with Fire still being ontop some mages go "oh ive been doing 3700 - 3900 dps as arcane on the PTR" but ive yet to see a meter with it posted... sure 45% more dmg to arcane barrage is cute and all but when it comes down to it .. i truly believe fire is still gonna be on top as far as pve spec's go .. maybe by a difference of 400-500 dps
    there ya go that's a ptr meter...

    http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

  7. #7

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    I think he meant download Recount, log into the PTR and go attack a dummy. Then screenshot your Recount. Not some BS simulation crap.

  8. #8

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by jhemfl
    I think he meant download Recount, log into the PTR and go attack a dummy. Then screenshot your Recount. Not some BS simulation crap.
    that plus rawr works for the guys at elitistjerks and it works for me...

  9. #9

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by jhemfl
    I think he meant download Recount, log into the PTR and go attack a dummy. Then screenshot your Recount. Not some BS simulation crap.

    ^ QFT


    Id take hard evidence over someone punching numbers into something.

    most of the programs that show potential dps and all this is just a computer generating numbers based off how much dmg .. crit .. hit etc a certain person has ...

    what they dont factor in .. is lag .. position changes .. etc so i find it really hard to believe that arcane is going to surpass fire as the Pve spec for mages .. it may come close but i really feel like fire is going to be the better choice as far as DPS goes.

    and i do believe somewhere it was said .. not really sure BUT .. if this upcoming arcane buff makes barrage too powerful barrage is being nerfed cause i mean lets face it we all know this is gonna turn into a big PVP thing where barrage is doing 80% more dmg .. (45% 3x blast, glyph 5% increase buff, arcane power 30%) .. wont be long before the mage forums fill up with threads about arcane mages .....




    oh wait :

  10. #10

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kannetix
    most of the programs that show potential dps and all this is just a computer generating numbers based off how much dmg .. crit .. hit etc a certain person has ...

    what they dont factor in .. is lag .. position changes ..
    does that not equal out the playing field. since any spec can be hampered by any number of situations. in a controlled environment you can see the potential. in the real world there is a +/- to the control based off of encounters but you are still seeing a relative number to the control. are there any situations where a smite priest can out dps a ffb mage in wrath? maybe but the odds tell us that ffb will win out in any situation given the control...

  11. #11

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    does that not equal out the playing field. since any spec can be hampered by any number of situations. in a controlled environment you can see the potential. in the real world there is a +/- to the control based off of encounters but you are still seeing a relative number to the control. are there any situations where a smite priest can out dps a ffb mage in wrath? maybe but the odds tell us that ffb will win out in any situation given the control...
    What you just said made no sense.

    What he's saying is that various factors can effect different situations. You cannot even come close to predicting what is better before you put it in play.

  12. #12

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    does that not equal out the playing field. since any spec can be hampered by any number of situations. in a controlled environment you can see the potential. in the real world there is a +/- to the control based off of encounters but you are still seeing a relative number to the control. are there any situations where a smite priest can out dps a ffb mage in wrath? maybe but the odds tell us that ffb will win out in any situation given the control...
    answer to that is .. no .. just ... no.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhemfl
    What you just said made no sense.

    What he's saying is that various factors can effect different situations. You cannot even come close to predicting what is better before you put it in play.
    ^^ ty for understanding.

    Because arcane is shown to have big numbers .. does not mean it will come time for it to hit live. most programs put you in the best case scenario so to speak .. best in slot .. right amount of every stat etc .. no lag .. they just put in numbers that generate the most dps But like i said before you have different factors that are going to be thrown into the equation .. maybe those numbers were bigger because lets say they tossed an elemental shaman in there .. made up for the 3% hit with a boomkin or spriest ...

    Maybe when the smoke clears hey yeah arcane might be on top but as far as live goes atm .. i just dont see arcane taking off and taking the #1 spot as DPS goes .. how many times in the past has arcane come close to being the top dps spec .. then fire comes out with something nuts and is instantly put out as the Goto spec when it came to putting up big big numbers.. i can see arcane and frost being a tug of war kind of spec with the change to TTW ...but only time will tell what will come out victorious.

  13. #13

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kannetix
    answer to that is .. no .. just ... no.
    ^^ ty for understanding.

    Because arcane is shown to have big numbers .. does not mean it will come time for it to hit live. most programs put you in the best case scenario so to speak .. best in slot .. right amount of every stat etc .. no lag .. they just put in numbers that generate the most dps But like i said before you have different factors that are going to be thrown into the equation .. maybe those numbers were bigger because lets say they tossed an elemental shaman in there .. made up for the 3% hit with a boomkin or spriest ...

    Maybe when the smoke clears hey yeah arcane might be on top but as far as live goes atm .. i just dont see arcane taking off and taking the #1 spot as DPS goes .. how many times in the past has arcane come close to being the top dps spec .. then fire comes out with something nuts and is instantly put out as the Goto spec when it came to putting up big big numbers.. i can see arcane and frost being a tug of war kind of spec with the change to TTW ...but only time will tell what will come out victorious.
    You don't quite seem to understand what the programs are meant to do. They'r meant to show potential, not actual performance there are tons of factors that go into play when your playing, but that's why you should not just takes numbers from 1 spec and say those are real. The main benefit you get from the programs is comparisons.

    Take all the different specs that are out there. Throw them in the most optimal gears there are and put them head to head just to see how it is in a 100% tank&spank fight with no human element. The numbers you get aren't real. if it says FFB does 4500 and Arcane does 4900 its the difference you need to look at, not the actual numbers.

  14. #14

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarleth
    You don't quite seem to understand what the programs are meant to do. They'r meant to show potential, not actual performance there are tons of factors that go into play when your playing, but that's why you should not just takes numbers from 1 spec and say those are real. The main benefit you get from the programs is comparisons.

    Take all the different specs that are out there. Throw them in the most optimal gears there are and put them head to head just to see how it is in a 100% tank&spank fight with no human element. The numbers you get aren't real. if it says FFB does 4500 and Arcane does 4900 its the difference you need to look at, not the actual numbers.
    ah i see ty for explaining :P
    when it comes down to it .. i really really hope arcane doesn't take over as the #1 spec .. i look forward to this upcoming patch to see whats on top .. one thing is for certain tho, running into arcane mages in arena is gonna be a headache if they are left casting >_< but .. im up for letting arcane mages open their arcane trees up

  15. #15

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Spellcaster
    The same goes for me,

    at least with fireball it's basically exactly the same gear except you need to make up 3% hit somehow, but oh boy, arcane is a completely different story.

    According to simcraft arcane specs gain 0.89 dps per point of intellect, and 0.46 dps per point of spirit, making some gear peices with high damage stats (spell power, haste, crit) but with low intellect and spirit (almost all the best in slot FFB gear has no spirit - which is why they're best in slot, becuase without a large chunk of the item bonus taken up with worthless spirit, more can be distributed to raw dps stats) almost reduntant

    And anyway, at least FFB has exactly the same rotation as FB, except for the main nuke obviously!, and we're all used to FB back from TBC where it proved to be the optimal dps spec.
    I'm not looking forward to mastering the AB x ?? (3)/ABar/AMiss rotation anytime soon. Infact, i have made it my prerogative to steer clear from arcane over my 4 year wow history

    But wow is all about choice, and we don't need to switch to arcane just because it's "theoretically" the highest dps spec.

    Affliction locks are "theorectically" the highest dps of the casters, but i have yet to be beaten by one....
    so maybe, just maybe, arcane wont dish out all it's meant to
    i do 5400-6200 dps on any 25 man straight dps fight without aoe
    patchwerk/razuvious

    as haunt ruin http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IdxrbzMAoVA0IstZEz0V
    dont have a WWS but i have these SS's

    See recount^

    See raid chat^

    not sure who your playing with and you skill/gear level but my assumption is that they are bad affliction warlocks

  16. #16

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviouss
    i do 5400-6200 dps on any 25 man straight dps fight without aoe
    patchwerk/razuvious

    as haunt ruin http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IdxrbzMAoVA0IstZEz0V
    dont have a WWS but i have these SS's

    See recount^

    See raid chat^

    not sure who your playing with and you skill/gear level but my assumption is that they are bad affliction warlocks
    Your UI hurts my eyes >.<

  17. #17
    Warchief Statix's Avatar
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    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kannetix
    if this upcoming arcane buff makes barrage too powerful barrage is being nerfed cause i mean lets face it we all know this is gonna turn into a big PVP thing where barrage is doing 80% more dmg .. (45% 3x blast, glyph 5% increase buff, arcane power 30%) ..
    When will any Mage be able to cast 3 Arcane Blasts in a row (no other spells) in PVP while keeping up the 10 second debuff? That's near to impossible, simply because you will get nuked down and will have sh*tload of spell push back. More importantly, Arcane in PVP is about mobility. Constant movement while spamming instants. If you want to cast, go Frost for Shatter Combo's.
    Statix will suffice.

  18. #18

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zongo
    I sure as heck wont be going arcane...i found it annoying to keep your rotation solid with all the random procs of arcane missiles....sometimes it goes off in 1 ABla cast, sometimes 2 ABla's and 3 Abar's. :-X
    So now you have to actually think and react, instead of counting from 1 to 5 when pushing your ffb button. Oh noes! :

    But seriously, I don't see a big difference anyway. With ffb, you have to keep up scorch, lb, and watch for Hot Streak procs. With Arcane you will basically cast 1-3 ABlasts, followed by an ABar, or AMissiles on Missile Barrage proc. Is it really that complicated for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Statix
    When will any Mage be able to cast 3 Arcane Blasts in a row (no other spells) in PVP while keeping up the 10 second debuff? That's near to impossible, simply because you will get nuked down and will have sh*tload of spell push back.
    Arcane Stability ftw! But I agree that most of the time you won't be able to stack the debuff, even without pushback.

    @Deviouss: Nice dps, but your UI really hurts my eyes... :P
    /thread

  19. #19

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    Honestly what I'm looking for thats going to make the QQ barrage is OP posts start flowing like a river is this:
    Mage and team get target to say 75% or lower
    POM/AP/Blast
    Barrage
    Missile barrage if your lucky
    Dead
    With this new change to blast I'm waiting to see more people start using it instead of pyro paired with POM.
    Mixelphlick 80 Gnome mage
    Beetstick 80 Gnome deathknight

  20. #20

    Re: Is anyone else going to be annoyed if....

    yar pritty nice dps :P thats like twice the dmg of anyone in our guild?

    http://wowwebstats.com/wtgzepfz5gcg5 << last attempt on 3drakes.

    :P well we dont have all the loot we could wish for from the game atm but only fanes are close to mange to do above 4kdps single targeting. kinda wish we had you in the guild with that 6k dps. guess 3drakes would be nothing if all locks managed to pull that off. tho i still like the 11k dps blizzard can make on trash packs in naxx hehe

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