The Role DKs Were "Supposed" to Fill

[Gamehenge]

I'm going to get flamed for this but.. It's totally the tanks fault for not holding aggro.
Used to run Naxx with 2 Pally tanks and a Warr tank. The Warr and the Pally switched out being OT. No one could pull aggro off any of these guys. You could DPS your balls to the wall and never pull a hit from a mob. Maybe get a red flash every once and awhile but that's about it.
Next week the OT get traded out for a druid tank. We pull aggro off this guy like he's wearing anti-threat cologne. Now the DPS has to hold back because this guy sucks.

"You should be watching OMEN" is the excuse any bad tank will use. You know what Mr. Terrible? Omen doesn't come with the game. I should need to download a mod to account for your crappy tanking.

/Had to get that off my chest.
//Good tanks (you know who you are) hold threat.

Eh not so black and white imo. For me i'm usually fine holding threat, and i know i can usually handle an extra add pack no problem, in fact i like to sometimes double pull nax 10 packs just so my healers don't fall asleep from boredom. However an extra pack agroing mid fight can sometimes cause a couple seconds of hiccups if my rune refresh cooldowns are on cd, and i don't have many active runes to work with at the time.

But it sounds like you're mainly venting about that druid who sounds like it is his fault for bad threat overall and not just an odd one time incident

As for the OP proud DK tank here and i'm loving it. I can understand why people may not want to tank as it's added responsibility but i like it. The great thing about the dk is tanking and dps are similar in that to hold agro we have to dps hard. We're basically dpsers who have to manage some more cd's and watch for any loose mobs instead of completely absorbing ourselves into the recount meter

[Liminal]

Let me start off by saying that as someone who has played pure DPS classes exclusively, hybrids irritate me

I didn't much mind in TBC when my rogue and warlock were the best at what they did, and I was invited accordingly...


However its BS that hybrid classes like Fury WAR and DK can stomp me on the charts with equal skill and gear. Not to mention they have hte ability to respec and tank if they so desire. I fucking wish I could respec and tank on my rogue or warlock... maybe then I might actually be usefull to a raid again.

It pisses me off though when they get all haughty taughty about respecing. 50g is SOOOO much gold. If you wanted to be a lazy DPS, you should have rolled a pure DPS class (though you lucked out that blizzard is fucking this game up).

That being said I was forced to finally roll a hybrid because lets face it they have every advantage in this game over pure DPS right now. There really is no reason to waste your time rolling rogue or a lock if you want to PvE.

Once again, maybe on my paladin I can actually bring some utility by filling whatever roll is needed -- be it tank, heals, or DPS

[erikdsn]

Another part of this is probably that tanking and healing actually require some responsibility. If you screw up its wipes the group or raid.

[Liminal]

I also don't get the hybrids that are too lazy/stubborn to utilize their whole class. To sit there in LFG as Ret, Fury, Arms, DPS DK, Feral and not get invites because there arent any tanks avaiable. You are right its you 15$, and you can spend it however you want to.


But if you are spending money, wouldn't you rather do something productive and actually have a group going becuase you are ready to fufill that roll that no one else is apparently willing to do?


that's exactly why i rerolled pally

[erikdsn]

Let me start off by saying that as someone who has played pure DPS classes exclusively, hybrids irritate me

I didn't much mind in TBC when my rogue and warlock were the best at what they did, and I was invited accordingly...


However its BS that hybrid classes like Fury WAR and DK can stomp me on the charts with equal skill and gear. Not to mention they have hte ability to respec and tank if they so desire. I fucking wish I could respec and tank on my rogue or warlock... maybe then I might actually be usefull to a raid again.

It pisses me off though when they get all haughty taughty about respecing. 50g is SOOOO much gold. If you wanted to be a lazy DPS, you should have rolled a pure DPS class (though you lucked out that blizzard is fucking this game up).

That being said I was forced to finally roll a hybrid because lets face it they have every advantage in this game over pure DPS right now. There really is no reason to waste your time rolling rogue or a lock if you want to PvE.

Once again, maybe on my paladin I can actually bring some utility by filling whatever roll is needed -- be it tank, heals, or DPS

Did you not know rogues and locks couldn't tank when you rolled them?

[Darshana]

I guess it's because when they were leveling up all the quest items were for DPS, there is hardly any tanking items, and since DK's weren't around TBC, unlike the other tank classes they don't actually own any tanking gear... Even in a crappy level 73 instance people will inspect the tank and go 'lol 10k hp?' and leave because they are all elitest...

And at 80
I had the same problem leveling my DK, I had to go and do all the group quests for the tanking blues and by the time I worked so hard hitting 540 defense that I couldn't be arsed with the class anymore, having to sacrifice other stats for the 540 defense + ending up with crap stamina because of that + not being invited to tank any heroics because the DPS kicked you because they wanted a pro 30k HP tank with full epics = Why most DK's join as DPS and not tank.........

[Liminal]

Did you not know rogues and locks couldn't tank when you rolled them?

No but I also didn't think Hybrids would end up better at my job than I would be

[Gamehenge]

No but I also didn't think Hybrids would end up better at my job than I would be

DPS warriors were very good dps since the beginning. I was top 5 dps with my ms war in most MC runs i did, while being able to tank in my ms/enrage spec by just tossing on my gear. At least they actually make us spec to tank now :P

And i bet you didn't mind it during BC when locks/rogues were some of the most OP classes around, most likely why you rolled them in the first place. You really aren't going to find much lock/rogue sympathy fyi

[Degrador]

Let me start off by saying that as someone who has played pure DPS classes exclusively, hybrids irritate me

I didn't much mind in TBC when my rogue and warlock were the best at what they did, and I was invited accordingly...


However its BS that hybrid classes like Fury WAR and DK can stomp me on the charts with equal skill and gear. Not to mention they have hte ability to respec and tank if they so desire. I fucking wish I could respec and tank on my rogue or warlock... maybe then I might actually be usefull to a raid again.

It pisses me off though when they get all haughty taughty about respecing. 50g is SOOOO much gold. If you wanted to be a lazy DPS, you should have rolled a pure DPS class (though you lucked out that blizzard is fucking this game up).

Let me start off by saying that as someone who has played hybrids from the beginning of WoW, whingers like you really piss me off.

Yes, you can be out-DPS'd now by hybrids, but not by much (my guild's lock still pulls 5k DPS), and generally only if they're really good and you're not...

You talk about how things were better in TBC / classic when DPS classes were brought because they had the best DPS? Well you obviously never looked at pallies in MC days. You can't honestly tell me that anyone at all plays the game because they really want to be OOC rezers and buff bots during raids.

The reason I rolled hybrids is exactly because I wanted to be able to do various roles in raiding. However until now the DPS of hybrids was too low to be viable for raiding, and hence the only reasonable choice you had was to either tank or heal (which for me wasn't too bad because I didn't mind those roles, however I still would've liked to be able to DPS).

Finally we're in a situation where you can do what you want with your class, and still be viable for raiding - I don't know of any guilds that don't bring rogues, don't bring locks, or don't bring hybrid DPS players. As long as you can perform the role you're supposed to be doing, then you can come. That's exactly how it should be.

[taek]

However its BS that hybrid classes like Fury WAR and DK can stomp me on the charts with equal skill and gear. Not to mention they have hte ability to respec and tank if they so desire. I fucking wish I could respec and tank on my rogue or warlock... maybe then I might actually be usefull to a raid again.

You're complaint is that people who play more are better than you, not about hybrid vs pure.

A tank geared DK/Warrior cannot do squat for DPS in tank gear. In order to compete w/ a epic Rogue, he needs have epic DPS gear available. If he has a full set of epic tank gear and a full set of epic DPS gear, he simply plays a lot more than you do. It's not much different than if he just rolled a rogue toon and geared that alt out in epics, minus the 1-80 time which is 2 weeks max these days.

You make it sound like DEF/DODGE/PARRY/STAM gets converted to STR/AP/CRIT when tanks respec.

[Southy]

I dps on my Dk as i heal on my shaman and want to dps, Not saying that i wouldnt ever tank though as im sure its fun

[Thirdage]

Personally as a Warrior tank, I really don't like tanking because I feel like I'm carrying people through heroics (most of the time) I took a lot of time and effort getting well geared for the dps and heals and I get nothing in return from them but some boomkin pulling 800dps

Tanks (also healers) are near always blamed if anything goes wrong, its stressful. I want to enjoy the game even if that means doing mind numbing rotations

I currently swap between tanking and dps, I have good gear for both my specs. If I find that its too hard to start finding heroics ill go tank. I'm not bad at it, I just have different moods

(All this can be applied to all tanks, but this is just my current experience with tanking)

[cramtod]

However its BS that hybrid classes like Fury WAR and DK can stomp me on the charts with equal skill and gear.

As a rogue, if you're getting stomped on the charts and they have equal gear, you do not have equal skill.

[Deleted]

As a rogue, if you're getting stomped on the charts and they have equal gear, you do not have equal skill.

Have you actually taken a look at rogues in Wrath?

[Vanty]

Im a Prot warrior and i hate pugging but atm i have to. I was forced to take alot of time of wow when wrath came out. So i only just hit 80 a few weeks ago. Every guild on my realm is near the end of wrath content and not willing to take on an under geared tank.

I try to get pugs all day and get turned away coz i dont hav the 30K health they beleave all tanks have now. I had to spend all my gems and gear to get the 540 def cap so my health dropped.

I'm finaly getting my health back up to 24k but still getting turned away by dps that when i check them on armory there mostly green with stupid stats. If i go to heroics pugs I'm astonished by the ammount of "pure" dps classes that cant even out damage me and struggle to get over 1000 dps.

I love hybrid dps they seem to be the only ones that seem to be able to do more than 1500 dps in the pugs (even in aoe situations). People shouldn't be forced to tank, most of the time i don't want people that can't even dps well to control my group.

Unless you have some good friends ready to gear you up or alot of time to gather all the items thats needed. Pugs arn't going to even want you. So it doesnt matter if you force people to tank just to find out that everyone is undergeared. Trust me if they were all tanks then there would be no were near enough spaces in guilds to gear them up in raids.

If every Healer Class was a Healer and/or Tank Class was a Tank then that would only leave 4/10 classes left to do dps. Pugging would be a disater if over every other person was a healer or tank there would be no dps to fill the 3/5 people needed to fill the dps places. Would you rather live in a "WoW" world were tanks and healers are played by skilled players or were dps are a pain to get to pad out the groups?

[Bigs]

So as a followup, will you have a tanking spec when dual specs are introduced?

Reiterating my question here, will YOU have a tanking spec when dual speccing is introduced?

If not, why?

[Rhonen]

I'm a Ret Paladin, and I don't tank cause you're not the boss of me.

Also, I've always been either Holy or Ret. I love healing, but I love dps even more. I played Ret back when it was a broken, shell of a spec, and I play it now whilst also maintaining a Holy set. I keep a Prot set for when I'm doing odd jobs like kiting Gluth adds, but otherwise, I'm either Ret or Holy.

[Daez]

Honestly, right now DKs have to be a tad on the oped side because they are a major selling point of this expansion. Wait till this expansion is old news and see how long it takes Blizzard to nerf the living hell out of them. They have done that with just about every expansion they have introduced to this point. They buffed the hell out of druids then nerfed the hell out of them after the expansion had been out for 6 months in TBC. They released almost all of the characters much stronger than they ended up in classic as well. Its their track record. It will be nice to see the whine when all these newbie dks finally get brought down a notch.

[Zimbambadu]

Yet everything I've experienced with with dps DKs discounts this. Our WWS and those of other top guilds does as well. DK dps is mediocre at best.

What I see happening is paladins speccing PvE Ret and PvP Ret with the dual spec system, same with most classes.

So as a followup, will you have a tanking spec when dual specs are introduced?

edit:spelling

1. Your dps DK's suck. I regularly break 5k on patchwerk (as blood) and have gotten close to 6k because RNG is a bitch. There aren't many players regardless of any class that can break that without serious effort, and I don't even have a betrayer of humanity.

2. I will have a PvP spec and a DPS spec, because tanking on a DK sucks compared to a paladin or a warrior. I know, I tank on both of those classes. If you like DK tanking, that's fine, it's just not for me.

3. "Hybrid" - every class in this game is a hybrid, get used to it. Even the "pure" classes are designed for other things than DPS. Often times a pure class like a mage isn't needed for dps, but for CC. (not in WOTLK cuz everything is aoe atm). The only shafted pure class are the rogues, but that's because they're so overpowered in PvP that they can't buff their damage. Blizzard came right out and said this. It's on the front page of mmo-champion for crying out loud.

Here's your WWS. It doesn't even count my army of the dead damage, and half of my DRW damage is missing. We're in the top 200, I believe that counts as "top guilds".

Get the hell out of here with your "mediocre" dps bullcrap. If I want to tank and tank for my guild, I will. But with this kind of DPS should I be forced into a tank role because you can't find a tank? I think not. You also assume that even if every tanking class was prot, they'd actually tank for you, which is doubtful.

http://wowwebstats.com/rsd2ljq6m1ztg?s=58573-94780

[clarizzana]

Honestly, right now DKs have to be a tad on the oped side because they are a major selling point of this expansion. Wait till this expansion is old news and see how long it takes Blizzard to nerf the living hell out of them. They have done that with just about every expansion they have introduced to this point. They buffed the hell out of druids then nerfed the hell out of them after the expansion had been out for 6 months in TBC. They released almost all of the characters much stronger than they ended up in classic as well. Its their track record. It will be nice to see the whine when all these newbie dks finally get brought down a notch.

Only OP thing about DKs at the moment are the rest of WoW players failing to adapt.
And spend more time QQing in forums, than reading up on DK abilities and what they do.