ThisOriginally Posted by Korred
ThisOriginally Posted by Korred
100% (see what I did there) agree. While it's true that a lot of boss fights may not be huge as far as individual instances for the % to come within .000001% of the average, it's still A. More than large enough to bet on and B. What else would you even go by? The odds here are in your favor, it's only logical to bet on your best possible chances. To bank on your least possible chance and hope for a crazy happenstance is pretty much insane.Originally Posted by aikouka
After a certain crit % is reached and for the number of chances in a regular boss enounter haste becomes more valuable, although marginally. It's small enough a margin to not really even have to go out of your way to achieve.
Haste by itself does not effect dpm in anyway. Crit does obviously, and in a very round about you could make a weak argument that Haste CAN effect DPM in the sense that you are giving yourself extra chances to crit, but even then haste would do nothing for you without the crit rating. Where I have found haste to be more useful is in shorter encounters and high mobility encounters. Crit is great and all but means squat if I can't get the spell off without taking 20k to the face from some AoE effect killing me and effectivly reducing my dps to 0. With shorter encounters as well getting a few more spells in is also great. I may get to cast four times vs one trash mob, where as the 5th cast gets mostly casted but never goes off. Lets say I have a 60% crit rate and no haste since I decided to forego haste for crit. I will, on average crit twice in four casts. It’s more like 2.4 times to be honest. If my average crit hits for 4600 and my non crit for 2000 then my dmg layout would look something like this.
2.4 crits = 4,600 x 2.4 = 11,040
1.6 non crit = 2000 x 1.6 = 3,200
Total = 14,240
Same example but with 50% crit and 20% haste effectively giving you an extra cast.
You crit 2.5 out of 5 casts and non crits are 2.5 out of 5.
2.5 crits = 4600 x 2.5 = 11,500
2.5 non crits = 2000 x 2.5 = 5000
Total = 17,000
Now mind you there are obviously a lot of factors I didn’t include here and the numbers were rounding for ease of calculation but are not altogether unrealistic. Also and this would have a great deal to do with whether or not this is possible, but I don’t know how much easier it is to obtain haste over crit. I do know that haste counts for more per rating point but I don’t know by how much. But even at a straight conversion of 10% haste and 50% crit (you would get 4.44 casts in a 12 second period at a 3 second cast time) it would look like this.
2.2 crits = 4600 x 2.22 = 10,212
2.22 non crit = 2000 x 2.22 = 4,440
total = 14,652
Still higher than the 60% crit example.
A few things this example assumes is FFB being cast (3.0 second base cast) over a period of 12 seconds.
Hopefully is you are running a frostfire build you have the molten armor glyph to for the 2% bonus. Imo I dont normally have mana problems on any fight with molten armor up even sometimes without rep unless its Sar with 3D. Crit is nice as the spec revolves round it. But haste will always rain supreme.Originally Posted by Zehlkatur
Ok, thanks for the answers. I'm sorry for the discussion about Rivendare's mount that may or may not drop for sure once in 100 runs. I thought it was clear when saying that "10 out of 100 hits will be crits" that I only was speaking in average.
Of course, having 1% chance to crit doesn't mean that out of 100 hits, one will be a crit for sure. It is just the amount of hits in average that will be crits. It's of course possible to have no crit in 1000 hits with a 99% crit chance (though quite unlikely : 1/100^1000 chances to happen, but still it can happen - people win at the lotery each day). It is also possible to have 1000 crits in 1000 hits with a 1% crit chance (except if Blizzard has included a mechanism controlling the number of crits in a time interval).
Oh yep, sure, I oversimplified and assumed that a crit doubles the damage done. It depends on the spell or hability, type of damage, and many things. Thanks for the correction.Originally Posted by Tickspoon
SureOriginally Posted by Mulder
It's an example. It's made to illustrate the notion I explain, but it's clear enough to be generalized easily.Originally Posted by Mulder
Il you have 10% crit so long, yes, adding 1% means 10% more crits. It is a relative increase.Originally Posted by Mulder
1) Hot Streak Pyroblast is a FFB mages top DPS spell by a huge margin.Originally Posted by Malentra
2) Hot Streak proc chance is exponentially (or at least better than linearly) dependent on crit chance.
Therefore:
3) Crit is the only stat which increases your DPS exponentially (it may be a linear combination of multiple exponents, but still exponential).
Conclusion:
Crit gets better and better the more you have. FrostFire Mages need to get all the crit they can and then chain cast HotStreak Pyroblasts every 3rd cast.
Oh and another thing, Haste rating is calculated in the denominator. This means that the more haste you have, the less it will improve your DPS completely independent of your other stats. Haste works against itself to become a progressively less desirable stat the more you have. Crit works with itself due to Hot Streak to become a more desirable stat the more you have.Originally Posted by peacemaker
Wrong. At the same spell power, with the same haste on gear, your DPS increases linearly across 1-100% critical strike chance. The thing that¨can be "exponential" is haste at the cost of heavy mana usage.Originally Posted by peacemaker
100/3=33.33, 100/2.5=40. and 100/2=50.
Nope. You are wrong (using your language).Originally Posted by mgp84
1) Hot Streak Proc chance increases exponentially with %crit.
2) Hot Streak Pyroblast is our best DPS spell by a huge margin.
3) Therefore DPS increased exponentially with %crit.
Almost everybody forgets to compute the probability of Hot Streak as a function of %crit. It is definitely not linear.
EDIT: Fine, I'll give some examples.
10% crit = 1% Hot Streak (0.1 * 0.1)
20% crit = 4% Hot Streak (0.2 * 0.2)
30% crit = 9% Hot Streak (0.3 * 0.3)
40% crit = 16% Hot Streak (0.4 * 0.4)
50% crit = 25% Hot Streak (0.5 * 0.5)
60% crit = 36% Hot Streak (0.6 * 0.6)
70% crit = 49% Hot Streak (0.7 * 0.7)
etc...
Now let's compute the differences (increases)
10% -> 20% = +3%
20% -> 30% = +5%
30% -> 40% = +7%
40% -> 50% = +9%
50% -> 60% = +11%
60% -> 70% = +13%
It's exponential. Nuff said.
Your point is correct but your math is not. As someone previously pointed out in this very thread, the HS equation is C*C/(1+C). If you plot that in a graph, you will see thatOriginally Posted by peacemaker
- More crit will result in an even larger gain in HS chance (what you call exponential growth), albeit to a smaller scale than you report above
- The growth is actually less than linear but it is much worse in the 0.0-0.3 range
My math is correct, but only reflects the %chance of a HS. It does not compute the %DPS increase. The %chance of HS increases exponentially, but total DPS is a linear combination of HSPyro and other casts and is therefore a linear combination of a linear and expoential DPS increase.Originally Posted by Hestedraeber
Therefore your conclusion that the DPS increase is somewhere between linear and exponential is exactly correct.