3.0.8 Mind Flay Discussion

[Nezoia]

I'm at 2092 sp and 18.28% crit

But I wouldn't gem crit, unless the socket bonus made it worth using a orange gem.

[nikari]

http://wowwebstats.com/5lkegloa6e6ao

6k dps on patchwork and 9100+ on thaddius = win

[Dorfie]

Blizzard doesn't realise that this bug gave SPriests their competitiveness. Sure it should be fixed but I think its obvious we need more benefits in terms of scaling in other areas as it can already be seen (pre 3.0.8) that we are falling behind on meters.

[Masennus]

So it's already fixed? Yesterdays Naxx was indeed a surprise.

[Battêry]

The bug has been fixed but the original intended bug fix has increased our DPS by a reasonable amount. Go beat on the test dummy for a while and compare that to what you used to be able to get. Obviously try to use the same gear now as you did before though.

[Worshaka]

I'm not kidding, I was reffering to general caster/cloth gear. And last time I checked, our best-in-slot weapon got mp5 on.

The only reason that is the best weapon in the game for spriests is because we can't use swords... the fact is the the mp/5 is wasted ilvl points and we should never gem/enchant or look for gear with it because in 99.9% of cases there is a better distribution of ilvl on something else.

It just so happens in this case that this particular weapon has 60 SP more than something with dps caster stats and thus the wasted mp/5 ilvl points are unnoticed.

[Worshaka]

Theroycraft almost never includes scaling. It's meant to be used as a NOW thing, not a IN A WEEK/MONTH/YEAR thing.

go read the post on EJ's, it most certainly involves scaling... short answer is anything under 4.8K dps the SP/2% int meta is better, anything over 4.8K dps the crit gem is better... keep in mind that is the short version.

[Worshaka]

If you get proper fucked by RNG the picture could show the value of 16 hit gems would be twice as good as 19 spellpower.

Incorrect... says other peoples simulators... and just because I didn't run the simulator myself personally doesn't mean that the results are any less conclusive. 16 hit isn't worth double 19 sp, its worth less than 19 sp... RNG levels out over time... you can toss a coin 5 times and it may come up heads on all those occasions but toss it 5000 times and you will find that tales comes up just as often.

Exact same premise here... it's better to hit for 19 SP more on the vast majority of spells which hit than prevent that 1% of spells missing...

That doesn't mean you should gear to be under the hit cap, but it does mean that there are pieces of gear that are worth using even when they force you under... the torch of holy fire is one for example, there is no other weapon in the game that will give you better dps (per simcraft) even with hit on them due to the fact that each spell will hit for 60 more damage vs 1 to 1.5% more spells hitting. (I admit that is a very simplistic description but thats effectively what occurs).

The fact that i'm able to pull 5K dps also leads me to believe my philosphy isn't that badly flawed, until i see that i'm well behing you're philosphy i'm pretty happy to continue with my current methodology.

[Lostprophet]

unless u are Jewelcraft.. so u dont have to socket blue to match the meta req.

didnt found the thread about those 2 metas, could you pls link it :/

[Worshaka]

Start of the discussion http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t37074-s...ecs_glyphs/p8/

Here are the bits to focus on...

Even using the numbers provided you get a PP total for the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond + 2x Purified Twilight Opals = (40.5 + 9 + 9 + .21 * 16) =~ 61.7 PP. Ember Skyflare + 2x Runed Scarlet Ruby = (25 + 19 + 19) = 63 PP.

If you need to trade 2x red gems for purple gems, the numbers given seem to show you need to do about 4.5K DPS before CSD pulls ahead of the ESD.

[Nezoia]

Incorrect... says other peoples simulators... and just because I didn't run the simulator myself personally doesn't mean that the results are any less conclusive. 16 hit isn't worth double 19 sp, its worth less than 19 sp... RNG levels out over time... you can toss a coin 5 times and it may come up heads on all those occasions but toss it 5000 times and you will find that tales comes up just as often.

Yes, but that don't kill the boss.

That's a acceptable excuse for farm raids, but in progress raids where you'll get 1-2% wipes, it's really really unacceptable to have missed that devouring plague because you weren't hit capped.

I couldn't care less if RNG evens out over 5000 boss kills. The pratical difference is much higher than your simulation values.

If you need to trade 2x red gems for purple gems, the numbers given seem to show you need to do about 4.5K DPS before CSD pulls ahead of the ESD.

So it only applies to people who ain't Jewecrafters, lol.

And I was right about scaling, when CSD is better the higher your dps gets.

[Worshaka]

Yes, but that don't kill the boss.

That's a acceptable excuse for farm raids, but in progress raids where you'll get 1-2% wipes, it's really really unacceptable to have missed that devouring plague because you weren't hit capped.

I couldn't care less if RNG evens out over 5000 boss kills. The pratical difference is much higher than your simulation values.
So it only applies to people who ain't Jewecrafters, lol.

And I was right about scaling, when CSD is better the higher your dps gets.

It's also unaccpetable taht all your spells didnt hit for 10 more damage to stop 1 spell missing when adding up that 10 extra damage it would ahve done double the dps of that 1 missed spell. We can talk in circles like this all day... fact is there is a point where dealing extra damage on all the spells you dont miss is > missing damage from 1 spell stuff all of the time.

Go look at all the other dps class forums... hit isn't what it used to be... ret pallys for example have Str weighted at 1.55 compared to hit at 1.1... str is massively better and you will see a lot of high end ret pallys quite happily under the hit cap... that doesnt mean they try to be under but when geare becomes available and is better to use than your hit gear, you use it.

[Nezoia]

Naming the pallydan forums seems a bit lame, considering they also got a 3% hit modifier from "ghost talents".

Most likely hit will return to be what it once were in higher dungeons, we'll see in time.

In the mean time, since we can't agree, and nobody can prove the other is wrong or right, lets put it down to playstyle.

I can't stand wasting a GCD on a miss, it's HORRIBLE.

[Urez]

Are we still discussing Mind Flay as the topic suggests?

If so, is it just my imagination, or does Mind Flay not trigger any trinket procs at all? Like Forge Ember or IODS? Can anyone confirm/deny this?

Edit: Seems fixed as of today.