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  1. #41

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    we usually bring 1 disc priest and 1 holy priest to 25 mans, the holy priest is usually like 2-4th on the meters,

    usually behind druids, (we dont have any active r shammys, wtb? pst?)

    we have 2 holy priests that rotate and the other one is extremely low on the meters,

    but the good ones at

    2028 sp unbuffed
    13% crit
    1078 spirit
    236 haste

    (i cant really comment on anything else, im a crazy resto druid =P)
    hitting buttons is hard* http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ysera&n=Ehoode

  2. #42

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torture
    I don't think I could possibly ask more from Penance (except someone elses idea that it can be glyphed to refresh Renew).
    That was mine. Glad you are still thinkin' about me, Torture. ^.~
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  3. #43

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synge
    It's feasible if it's Torch of Holy Fire + Matriarch's Spawn and as you have mentioned with gem choices. The haste seems low and could very well be bent more towards crit.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ubashi&n=Synge

    If I had Torch of Holy Fire + Matriarch's Spawn I'd have:

    2172 Unbuffed Spellpower
    16% Haste
    17.3% Holy Crit
    1081 Spirit
    18000 Mana

    But I'm currently sitting at:

    2036 Unbuffed Spellpower
    16.5% Haste
    17.3% Crit
    1038 Spirit
    18238 Mana

    While I'd say it's unlikely, it's definitely not impossible - I could stack a ton of spellpower if I sacrificed some haste to make up the difference I'm sure!

    See, again, the point isn't to flaunt your stats- we have sigs for that which actually link to our armory. The point is that the person was probably including holy fire, a buff, and "telling" this guy his spellpower was 2300. Thus my "bullcrap" response. It's like me telling you that I easily break 3K spellpower in a 25 man raid, which I do, but without a screenshot or some validation of what went into it, it's kaka.

    The stats were out of whack for 2300 SP imo. Call me frickin Quincy over here.

  4. #44
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    594

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    That was mine. Glad you are still thinkin' about me, Torture. ^.~
    I did think it was you, but I was concerned that if I put 'Kel' and it turned out I was wrong, it would look like I had some sort of unhealthy obsession ;D

    Armory Link
    Life's like a salmon swimming upstream - Hard work, and sometimes you get eaten by bears.

  5. #45

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    I would like to stress a point that has already been raised here: Do not judge a healer's performance by the position he or she takes on the healing meters. A good healer is one who get's the job done. Whose assigned targets don't die, who moves smartly, who doesn't waste his/her mana. In situations were there is not a lot to heal, maybe she just opted for regenerating mana and keeping an eye out for emergency situations were a shield is a life saver.

    Another thing: Never use a single raid to be judgemental of a player. Everyone is liable to have a bad day once in a while.

    As for the guy who claims to always be topping the meters even without CoH spamming - well, no offense to you, I'm sure you're doing a good job, but in that case your collegues (druids/shamans/pallys) are problaby kind of underperforming.

  6. #46

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torture
    I did think it was you, but I was concerned that if I put 'Kel' and it turned out I was wrong, it would look like I had some sort of unhealthy obsession ;D
    It's okay to be obsessed about me. Sometimes I am too. ^.~ :P
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  7. #47

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Honestly, just 1 thing I think need to be mentioned clearly is that if you're raids aren't wiping, who cares how good your healers are? They should not be judged based on meters or HPS or overhealing, if no one dies what does it really matter?

    And random deaths from stupid dps don't count.

  8. #48

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlekin76
    As for the guy who claims to always be topping the meters even without CoH spamming - well, no offense to you, I'm sure you're doing a good job, but in that case your collegues (druids/shamans/pallys) are problaby kind of underperforming.
    What makes you think priests can't top meters?

    We are top notch raid healers and can top meter easily if there is enough damage to be healed.

  9. #49

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavrick165610
    Now in our 25 man VoA raid and in our 10 man Naxx raid, she was very handily out healed by almost every other healer. 2 of them more than doubling her Healing per second with less over healing.
    How many do you bring to theses raids?
    How geared is your tank?
    What was her healing assignment?

    If your raid is decently geared, healing naxx is pretty boring so maybe you bring too many healers or assigned her to heal a tank who didn't take that much damage.

  10. #50

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silai
    What makes you think priests can't top meters?

    We are top notch raid healers and can top meter easily if there is enough damage to be healed.
    Experience. I've played a holy priest in every single raid encounter since the beginning of burning crusade, and safe for skill- and brainless CoH spamming I have yet to see an encounter were priests played as skillfully as the other healing classes top the meters (alright, yes, PoH spamming in RoS DID actually result in #1, and for Loatheb Priests are second to noone, but thats less than 5% of all raid encounters). Naturally it may happen once in a while - absurd crit luck, priest's target getting a lot more damage than the targets of other assigned healers etc.

    Give me the situation were a priest will consistently outshine all other healers in a raid scenario - I honestly cannot think of one (safe for the exceptions mentioned above). As far as single target healing goes, Paladins rule. Beacon on one target, focus another, and with an appropriate glyph even raid damage is partially taken care of. Raid damage? Since the CoH nerf (which I'm really glad came, to be honest) that's a shaman's domain. Encounters that require a lot of movement all the time? Druids are king.

    A holy priests strength really lies in his versatility. PoM, Renew, PW:Shield, CoH and surge of light allow you an extremely high level of mobility, while being stationary our single target heal is only topped by paladins. Please note - I didn't say that there aren't situations were a holy priest is the best choice for a certain task. I merely stated that a holy priest, who consistently tops the meters, probably is lacking well played competition from other healing classes.

  11. #51

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlekin76
    I merely stated that a holy priest, who consistently tops the meters, probably is lacking well played competition from other healing classes.
    Well put...

  12. #52

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Lol @ 2 points in healing focus


  13. #53

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Healing Focus might not be needed like it used to be, but save your lols for people who spec Martyrdom and Blessed Recovery for PvE. Some people (me included) like to know that no raid damage will ever push back the spell I'm currently casting - at all (Conc Aura). In some fights reliability is still king and it's only 2 talent points.

  14. #54

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Overall, I think some of you summed it up well: Most holy priests dont know how to play. Their rotations are not optimal, their gems/enchants are not calculated, they do not adapt, their specs are put together wrong and most of all: people are lazy.

    I am consistantly on top or 2nd on the meters in every raid I am in (bosses and overall) and rarely have mana problems except in rare occurances where I have to pick up slack with inefficient spells. Name a fight and I am 1st or 2nd in HPS and overall healing. Before the CoH nerf I destroyed people, but now it is a fight between me and a very good resto druid in similar gear (a great pally/shammy can keep up too but rarely tops overall).

    I overheal a lot, but like someone said it doesnt matter if you have to mana to make up for it (serendipidy is made for this). PoM on every CD, renews on tanks, CoH on every CD if enough people are damaged (automatic SoL proc and I use it on the lowest health member of raid or tank), and fill in the gaps with flash heal and greater heal/binding heal if concentration procs or simply binding heal when i take dmg. It usually works out to 3 flash heals and a CoH during fights with raid dmg with refreshing of the renews and PoM not in account. PoM is amazing and needs to be used effectively to maximize its heals. PW:S is super inefficient and should be avoided except prepull and in emergencies. Tank healing rivals palidans with greater healing/PoM/renew and stopcasting the GH with a SoL once in while or a saving flash heal if i just cancelled my GH and the tank is low. I have the flash heal, CoH and renew glyphs atm...i like the renew glyph because most of the time i use renew I want to maximize HPS on a tank or a raid taking a lot of dmg and the faster healing done helps. Holy nova is also a great glyph but I dont really need it atm.

    I balance my int/spirit and have around 20% holy crit/8% haste and around 2120sp with innerfire (and a relatively shitty weapon atm). Raid buffed with a moonkin obviously makes it 25% crit and an additional couple hundred spell power, with around 550mp5 rull raid buffed. There is no need for me to get more haste atm as the badge trinket procs all the fucking time with 550haste or w/e. I am in almost full 25man naxx gear...just need new weapon and bracers and headpiece.

    As for Guardian Spirit: I have done many specs with and without it and they are pretty similar imo. GS is usefull more often then people think and with a 2min CD it saves a lot of hastle and people yelling on vent when people fuck up. Often times runs go so smooth because of it that people dont realize how much it helped. If anything, it is a great way to get OO5SR, but it definitely is bugged atm. During razuvious it is great to use on the npc tanks for some extra 40% healing every 2min for 10 sec. Divine spirit just doesnt do that much for a raid with shamans and aff locks and imo divine providence is great for the extra HPS all around especially after the CoH nerf...and if you get that you mise well get GS.

    So the answer: Holy priests are amazing and versitle if you know how to play them. They are no longer OP raid heals but I have never had problems keeping up with the other healing classes, I just dont completely destroy them anymore.

    My spec is currently 14/57/0 and I find it very effective for my style.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...s&n=Shadycheez

  15. #55

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeezitz
    Overall, I think some of you summed it up well: Most holy priests dont know how to play. Their rotations are not optimal, their gems/enchants are not calculated, they do not adapt, their specs are put together wrong and most of all: people are lazy.
    My belief is that good players top meters. And because content is fairly easy people like this spam the hell out of things to make themselves look better. Thus turning healing into an epeen competition with massive overhealing and mana wastage.

    I really hope that mana conservation becomes a huge part of raiding. because at the moment if your shaman are any good and decide to waste your priests on teh meters they will. 85% CH and 60% Over heal - who cares I won...

    This argument becomes more retarded every day because as people get more and more geared the fights become more and more trivial. I've already seen a thread about a guild that wants to try 10 man naxx with only 1 specialised healer. And they probably will do it.

    But anyway - the bottom line is it doesn't matter what your healers are specced or geared right now. But my biggest hope is in 3.1 those people with too much overheal who are meter minding will get slapped with an OOM penalty. then we will see who is really a good healer.

    Priests were slammed for spamming CoH. Now its time to slam the flash healers, the chain healers and whatever it is that pallies spam...

  16. #56

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    I'm playing a Holy Priest right now and I think cheeezitz (post above) is pretty much right on. I'm slightly less geared than the priest mentioned at the start of the thread (in a raid i'll have about 17k mana, 2300 spellpower, ~16-18% crit, 800-850 regen with my trinks) but I've never had issues with healing.

    I'm #1/#2 in HPS in probably 4 of 5 raid boss fights but usually #4 or #5 in overhealing (on both 10 and 25man). Like cheeezitz says, you spam PoM (don't wait for all 5 jumps, just keep casting it on the tanks) and CoH whenever you can, always have renew up on tanks, and use flash or greater based on the situation, but you have other situational spells that help a lot.

    I regularly will use 8 different spells on most raid bosses (some more than others). Make sure your priest knows when to use what. Sometimes PoH is better than CoH, sometimes Binding heal is better than 2 flashes or CoH.

    Also, the priest in question does have a lackluster spec but it's not enough to explain such a drop in healing.

  17. #57

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by cheeezitz
    Overall, I think some of you summed it up well: Most holy priests dont know how to play. Their rotations are not optimal, their gems/enchants are not calculated, they do not adapt, their specs are put together wrong and most of all: people are lazy.

    Sorry...but there is no optimal rotation for healers. As for high overhealing, I am consistently lowest overhealing (and yes, I always top the charts...before and after the CoH nerf). When I see a priest with high overhealing, I see a priest who's goal is to top the meters.

  18. #58

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    I know what you mean about overhealing being usually a way to flex the meters, but healing done is healing done. Too many healers play the efficiency role too often and players end up going down because not all dmg is predicted and healed efficiently. Sometimes, you have to just give it your all and plan your mana accordingly. I dont just spam on random targets that dont need healing... I do my best to plan it out but I would rather throw out a couple half wasted flash heals and 8 more that hit efficiently then wait for someone to get low and throw 5 that were perfectly efficient.

    I just tend to play it safe by healing as much as I can and it pays off because people stay alive that otherwise wouldnt have. A healers job is to keep people alive, period. I dont fret when i see overhealing because I know I kept the raid up. When the content gets harder I will adjust my effeciency accordingly, but until then I am not going to sit on my ass like most healers and wait for that perfect heal that never comes. I am competitive, but I fully realize that healing meters dont mean everything (especially since a lot of healing spells dont show up like dmg absorbed for disc priests etc.)

    However, healing meters often correlate with effort...It is redic when a few people die in a fight and some healer ends up with near full mana at the end with half the heals of the top healer and blames his lack of healing on efficiency... T_T

  19. #59

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    My guess is that she relied too heavily on CoH.

    Keep Renew up on tank, ProM every cooldown, keep a stopcasted Gheal in the tube and/or use Flash Heals if you have to. CoH to help top off raid. I still top the healing meters in 10 man and 25 man raids, it's still the nature of Priest healing.

    This is the only really acceptable Holy spec.
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbzhZcxtcc0qihVIst
    You can move maybe one or two points, but this is probably the best.

    Here's my Armory, and her stats sound better than mine. No reason to be behind on healing charts.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Lizasanthia
    We clear 10-man Naxx in one raid with two healers, myself and a Holy Pally and we join some of our friend's guilds when they do 25-man occasionally, and I'm still #1 or #2 on the meters.

  20. #60

    Re: Holy priest worth taking to a raid?

    Lol @ 2 points in healing focus
    Right now there is exactly one challenging encounter in this game and 2/2 Healing Focus is considered as standard for it as a holy priest. While I'll concede that this was probably not her prime motivation for choosing this spec, I would suggest to refrain from sweepy generalisations that might lead people to ignore the value of this talent.

    I overheal a lot, but like someone said it doesnt matter if you have to mana to make up for it (serendipidy is made for this). PoM on every CD, renews on tanks, CoH on every CD if enough people are damaged (automatic SoL proc and I use it on the lowest health member of raid or tank), and fill in the gaps with flash heal and greater heal/binding heal if concentration procs or simply binding heal when i take dmg.
    So, what you are saying is, you see your role in a raid as topping the meters, instead of getting the job done. Rather interesting - but to a certain degree it might actually be promising for the moment. I'm curious what is going to happen, though, once healing (and raiding in general) becomes nontrivial. The only thing that you are actually proving with this statement is that your raid is taking too many healers (and consequently that the degree of "difficulty" currently allows your raid to do just that). Try doing Satharion and 3 drakes either 10 or 25 with this approach and you will see what I mean.

    Too many healers play the efficiency role too often and players end up going down because not all dmg is predicted and healed efficiently.
    Matter of fact, too many healers play the epeen game which results in them not getting the job done because they try to use every single cooldown for bringing a cast through, no matter who they are actually supposed to heal.

    There is no need for me to get more haste atm as the badge trinket procs all the fucking time with 550haste or w/e.
    This actually made me smile. Inner CD of 45 secs yet it proccs all the time? Amazing. Note: Trinkets with random haste procs are generally not nearly as good for healers as they are for damage dealers, because you have no way of ensuring that the proc comes when you need it. Of course, if your intention is to just squeeze in a heal quicker than another caster because you want to top the meters, it might just suit that purpose.

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