so I had an argument with my Guild Master about Jawbone...

[badrsadiq]

My weapon was http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40406 Inevitable Defeat

and I took

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39758#comments The Jawbone


Now, I am a Blood tank, so i have 6+5 expertise by default.

Now, my gear stats are the following:
1. 40k hp raid buffed (Not vamparic blood)
2. 27% dodge
3. 22% Parry
4. 8.75% expertise

TBH with my guild's insane dps I decided i'll roll need on jawbone because I do struggle sometimes to keep my aggro, and it will only get worse the closer we get to Uludar (the more geard the dps will be) I currently have best of the best tanking gear and rings / trinkets except my helm is still heroes.

anyway, Jawbone vs Defeat = I lose:
-12 stamina
-0.75% Expertise
-0.65% Dodge

What I gain with jawbone is 49 more dmg.


Now, i say it's worth it.... My GM doesn't, so what do you say ? Show me some math of you can, because he asked for..

[Vampyrr]

tbh it looks like a bad sidegrade for a tanking weapon and you would be better with the inevitable. It is NOT an upgrade by any means just a toy to use when you get to do dps imo. You should of passed if someone else would of got more out of it.

[Gaeldar]

why would you care about the weapon damage really... You are a tank you are supposed to take as little damage as possible, do nice threat and do a little damage. Priorities imo are hit/expertise and then survivability. Damage doesnt really matter all that much especially when the weapons both have the same dps. You could argument about slower speed for less parries but neh.

[badrsadiq]

why would you care about the weapon damage really... You are a tank you are supposed to take as little damage as possible, do nice threat and do a little damage. Priorities imo are hit/expertise and then survivability. Damage doesnt really matter all that much especially when the weapons both have the same dps. You could argument about slower speed for less parries but neh.

As a blood Deathknight tank my threat is based on my weapon damage.

[Tripp]

I would not of needed it if there were other guild mates in your raid that needed it.

[badrsadiq]

I would not of needed it if there were other guild mates in your raid that needed it.

I actully had my eyes on Betrayer of Humanity for TPS but I decided it DOES lack tanking stats despite it's high TPS. So I agreed if am going to upgrade it's going to be Jawbone because the tanking stats i'll lose isn't that big and its worthwhile the huge TPS increase.

[Gaeryth]

If the raid is threat capped, more tanking threat is a greater increase than the increase of a damage dealer's dps. However, how much of a threat increase that weapon is I have no idea about since I'm not into death knights. Anyway, if it really increases your threat and you need threat then I'd call it a valid need.

[nobu]

I actully had my eyes on Betrayer of Humanity for TPS but I decided it DOES lack tanking stats despite it's high TPS. So I agreed if am going to upgrade it's going to be Jawbone because the tanking stats i'll lose isn't that big and its worthwhile the huge TPS increase.

Sorry but i would call your GM plain retarded if he let you roll on BOH with the rest of the dps'ers.

[Vampyrr]

I actully had my eyes on Betrayer of Humanity for TPS but I decided it DOES lack tanking stats despite it's high TPS. So I agreed if am going to upgrade it's going to be Jawbone because the tanking stats i'll lose isn't that big and its worthwhile the huge TPS increase.

You act like Inevitable is a bad dps weapon and it isnt. If you even THOUGHT about bidding/rolling whatever on the Betrayer as a tank I would gkick you on the spot. Tanks dont get to touch that weapon until every dps class has it including hunters.

Tbh it just sounds like you are greedy and have a case of the Iwants.

[Arduroc]

While threat is a good thing, trading mounds of expertise and dodge, not to mention stamina for a minimal gain in threat is rather silly. An upward change of 49 weapon damage is going to do somewhere between jack and crap for your threat. If it gave you an increase of more than 10 TPS I would be amazed.

If you had rolled on something with a great deal more expertise or hit or AP, that would have been acceptable.

This was a poor choice on your part, sorry.

[badrsadiq]

I am not taking Betrayer guys, i said i had my eyes on it.... doesn't mean am going for it. OFC NOT !!! but JAwBoNe is a tanking DK weapon in many ways.

[badrsadiq]

While threat is a good thing, trading mounds of expertise and dodge, not to mention stamina for a minimal gain in threat is rather silly. An upward change of 49 weapon damage is going to do somewhere between jack and crap for your threat. If it gave you an increase of more than 10 TPS I would be amazed.

If you had rolled on something with a great deal more expertise or hit or AP, that would have been acceptable.

This was a poor choice on your part, sorry.

Are you talking from a general tank perspective? because Blood DK tanks rly too much on their weapon dmg

[Danthegreat1]

What's your TPS at if you're needing on that? Honestly wow. Must be pretty horrible. -- However I really don't see any decent DK tanks on my server.

[Nirron]

Inevitable Defeat is THE best tank tanking weapon a DK could be using.

[Bilbobubblin]

If it's not a huge upgrade for you (I can sympathize with the threat argument but it's not a huge upgrade) but it is a huge upgrade for someone else the best solution for the whole guild is to let those who need it most have it.

[Vampyrr]

expertise hit dodge and stam > 49 dmg expertise is one of the single most important stats for a tank and you get rid of it for infinitesimally bigger numbers? Shame on you sir

And as for the betrayer of humanity... get your eyes off it! It isnt a weapon for a tank end of story.

[zasg]

I am the raid leader for my guild and TBH I would not of let you it is such a side grade its not funny. I mean its not like your going to gain 1000 extra tps off it. I could understand if you were using a 170 dps wep or something.

[badrsadiq]

So basically you just wanted something and your waiting for a reply to justify it... and ignoring everyone else who says your an idiot... i think we understand now.

Not at all, I do feel it's wrong in a way but I made this post to seek out maths on how 49 more dmg is or is not greater than the stats i'll give up.

[Deleted]

Can you tell us how much more tps you get through 49 dmg ?
There's no definitive argument that can be made anyway, since you are comparing survivability and threat generation, a judgement call has to be made. The fact that you don't know yourself how much of a tps increase it will be for you i do find problematic.

[nobu]

Not at all, I do feel it's wrong in a way but I made this post to seek out maths on how 49 more dmg is or is not greater than the stats i'll give up.

Okay, if no one else wanted it and people justed wanted for /Offspecc then sure go ahead take it. However if other actual DPS'er need it for an upgrade then no, DONT ROLL FOR It.

Tbh GM Ticket it and give it to someone who would make better use out of it, and apologise to the guild master for making a mistake.

Sorted.