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  1. #1

    Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Seeing it first hand in our raids I can tell that the Holy priest and Druids are still on top of the charts but maybe by a much smaller margin. Its nice to see these 2 specs use more than 1 spell again ) Even after the nerf COH and Wild Regrowth seem to be the most used spells still for these specs, which is very interesting. What does everyone else think?

  2. #2

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    I think healing is still an exercise in virtual whack-a-mole with health bars.


  3. #3

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    I think you have it about right, in my guild the 2 holy priests are always #1,2 on the effective healing meters, but by a lesser margin. The nerf really isn't a huge deal, there are a few cases where my CoH spam has saved people, but its because something went wrong in the first place. No fight performed correctly requires intense CoH spam. All the priests who couldn't handle the CoH nerf used it improperly to begin with, they would spam it in any situation without using their brain because it was easy and got the job done.

    Edit: Spelling

  4. #4

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    It's still broken, (vortex phase on maly) lets wait till we can use it to its full extent.

    Otherwise, I like it. Im just finding myself using PoM and Binding Heal a whole lot more.

  5. #5

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    I have to agree. Since the CoH nerf playing my priest feels like home, again. I use a more varied rotation and don't fear being mocked for not spamming a boring spell just because it was the most effective. Also, DPS are starting to learn to not stand in the fire. INCREDIBLE.

    Also, vortex phase on Malygos = EZmode. CoH was never needed for this fight if your healers know how to play.

  6. #6

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by amung
    DPS are starting to learn to not stand in the fire.
    Now if only they could learn to get out of the rock showers and blizzards...

  7. #7

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chillbro
    Now if only they could learn to get out of the rock showers and blizzards...
    You seem to have forgotten what game you're playing.

  8. #8

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    I can still heal with the best healers in my guild. Not a problem. Never was.

    Instead of spamming CoH with the odd flash heal throw in. ProM used every 7 seconds.
    I'm now spamming flash heal with the odd CoH thrown in. ProM used every 7 seconds.
    The major difference is that i'm now having trouble keeping multiple people alive on malygos phase 2 and sartharion in 3 drake mode. They die east and west, much to mine and their frustration. Ultimately, I feel powered down.
    Which I suppose was half the point of the nerf, and I guess we can call it a success in such terms.

    If you want my opinion on CoH after the nerf, I feel like a cheat for casting it. Because the only real reason I do so is not to save people. One CoH will not make any difference on malygos phase 2 or multidrake sartharion. The reason I use CoH is to pad the healing done on the meters that noone checks. One CoH does not make any difference on a fight where people take 8-10k damage per hit. But because CoH is 0% overheal and a lot of healing done for one GCD, it does help the e-peen. But not the raid health situation. Casting CoH will improve the chance of survival for 0 raiders. Casting FHeal will improve the chance of survival for 1 raider. As such, I really dislike the new CoH, and I would not shed a single tear or even care much if I lost it tomorrow. There is nothing I can say about this spell than the fact that it is absolutely pointless on non-trivial content.

    I now live for flash heal spam. It's not much fun, whack-a-mole has never been more descriptive, and I do feel like a TBC paladin. But it works. So okay, I can deal with it but expect some snide remarks along the way. Just don't tell me this new style holy priest is so more fun and enables you to radically use all of your abilities to the fullest. This is not the case; we're still mostly one button healers.

    If there is anything that is really ticking me off in 3.0.8 is that Guardian Spirit is even more bugged now than it used to be pre-patch. It now works on beartanks (yay!), but it no longer works on tanks tanking more than one mob (aaargh!). It still doesn't work if cast in the same tick as when the target die.



    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  9. #9

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    "Just don't tell me this new style holy priest is so more fun and enables you to radically use all of your abilities to the fullest."

    Maybe not for you. I certainly don't spam flash heal. If I am, then the other healers aren't pulling their weight. I can't say this happens very often. And no, I don't use CoH as an effective heal. And I also don't use it to pad out the meters so I can rub on my epeen at the pretty numbers, either. Stack some crit and use it for a semi-decent melee group heal and almost guaranteed SoL to throw on the MT, or the overaggroing mage, or yourself in DP is on cooldown.

    I use greater heal more now than I have in ages, and my healing is a fairly good mix, though usually, yes, FH does tend to be ahead in the meters, but only because after proccing clearcasting (which regularly chains, too), it makes sense to use the more mana inefficient heal.

    If you choose to spam flash heal, that's up to you, it's the way you play and there's nothing wrong with that, but we don't all play this way, and I for one certainly don't find it as mundane as pala healing.

  10. #10

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Priests are still good, but on some fights they are significantly lower. I noticed on thaddius and Saph last night on kel, our best priest healer was not topping the charts, where he usualy would dominate. Druids seem to be tearing it up still - Rejuv / WG are so OP its not funny.

    Especially if you have the Idol from naxx 25man that reduces rejuv to a 350~ ish mana spell!!! TOO CHEAP for a 18 second hot that ticks for 1800~ hp I can spam 5 of them then WG = OP for raid healing... CoH aint got shit on me no more :P

  11. #11

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    I can still heal with the best healers in my guild. Not a problem. Never was.

    Instead of spamming CoH with the odd flash heal throw in. ProM used every 7 seconds.
    I'm now spamming flash heal with the odd CoH thrown in. ProM used every 7 seconds.
    The major difference is that i'm now having trouble keeping multiple people alive on malygos phase 2 and sartharion in 3 drake mode. They die east and west, much to mine and their frustration. Ultimately, I feel powered down.
    Which I suppose was half the point of the nerf, and I guess we can call it a success in such terms.

    If you want my opinion on CoH after the nerf, I feel like a cheat for casting it. Because the only real reason I do so is not to save people. One CoH will not make any difference on malygos phase 2 or multidrake sartharion. The reason I use CoH is to pad the healing done on the meters that noone checks. One CoH does not make any difference on a fight where people take 8-10k damage per hit. But because CoH is 0% overheal and a lot of healing done for one GCD, it does help the e-peen. But not the raid health situation. Casting CoH will improve the chance of survival for 0 raiders. Casting FHeal will improve the chance of survival for 1 raider. As such, I really dislike the new CoH, and I would not shed a single tear or even care much if I lost it tomorrow. There is nothing I can say about this spell than the fact that it is absolutely pointless on non-trivial content.

    I now live for flash heal spam. It's not much fun, whack-a-mole has never been more descriptive, and I do feel like a TBC paladin. But it works. So okay, I can deal with it but expect some snide remarks along the way. Just don't tell me this new style holy priest is so more fun and enables you to radically use all of your abilities to the fullest. This is not the case; we're still mostly one button healers.

    If there is anything that is really ticking me off in 3.0.8 is that Guardian Spirit is even more bugged now than it used to be pre-patch. It now works on beartanks (yay!), but it no longer works on tanks tanking more than one mob (aaargh!). It still doesn't work if cast in the same tick as when the target die.




    The vortex on malygos does 2k dmg a second for 10 seconds, everyone in a decently geared raid should have roughly 20k health, so ya that one coh will save people...

    Also if someone gets healed for 2-3k instantly that is another second for that paladin to get off their holy light 20k crit. dont be ignorant, healing is a team sport, rely on ur other healers and work on helping them instead of tryin to beat them in a number game.

    It is not to "Pad the meters" as you would say because all competent healers know that a healing meter doesnt prove anything. Anyone worried about padding the meter is just kinda silly.

    Also Coh is ur free SoL proc, any priest with a decent amount of crit is nearly promised a Sol when they hit coh. Also try to not forget that coh does heal a decent amount when it crits (once again crit is nice for priests) and is still pretty cheap. Just because its not spammable anymore doesnt make it useless.

    Priests are known for having a tool for every occasion, and instead of Coh being the one button to hit because it was the most "effective" you now have another tool to add to your toolbox.

  12. #12

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by amung
    Maybe not for you. I certainly don't spam flash heal. If I am, then the other healers aren't pulling their weight. I can't say this happens very often. And no, I don't use CoH as an effective heal. And I also don't use it to pad out the meters so I can rub on my epeen at the pretty numbers, either. Stack some crit and use it for a semi-decent melee group heal and almost guaranteed SoL to throw on the MT, or the overaggroing mage, or yourself in DP is on cooldown.
    Excuse me if I am misunderstanding you, but you are basically agreeing that CoH isn't an effective heal, and goes one step further by saying that the only reason to cast it is to get a SoL proc?

    I use greater heal more now than I have in ages, and my healing is a fairly good mix, though usually, yes, FH does tend to be ahead in the meters, but only because after proccing clearcasting (which regularly chains, too), it makes sense to use the more mana inefficient heal.
    The problem I have with gheal is that it's too slow for any real fights. The healers in my guild is not slacking by any means (love them all), which means that my 2.5 second gheal is going to get sniped no matter what I do.

    But sure, GHeal is useful on patchwerk where you need that extra throughput and sniping is all but encouraged. Everywhere else, flash heal is faster and more mana efficient and doesn't carry the extra insane overhealing.

    If you choose to spam flash heal, that's up to you, it's the way you play and there's nothing wrong with that, but we don't all play this way, and I for one certainly don't find it as mundane as pala healing.
    It's not that I want to, far from it. There is just no real alternatives. GHeal is too slow and will be sniped. Renew is in any way you twist it a bad spell compared to a flash heal. PW:Shield is kinda weak (for holy) and doesn't really heal and simply using it tends to cause me to get in the way of our discipline priest - and fheal usually "heals" for more and at no cooldown. I find Holy Nova utterly useless as a heal, though there are a lot of priests who don't - more power to them. Prayer of Healing is actually cast every forthnight when there is no sense of urgency, my party is within reasonable range, I have plenty of excess mana, and the entire raid is hurt anyway, but... not very often. Binding Heal is basically a double flash heal, I personally count that toward flash heal spamming. Desperate prayer is worthwhile (if expensive), but at a 2 minute cooldown and relatively limited use case it can only do so much.

    The only real breaking point from the flash heal spam is ProM. It's not a situation I enjoy, but it's what's I find most efficient at keeping people alive. Not that the other spells aren't situationally used, but it's very very rare. I'm more than open to pointers on how to get away from this though - convince me of use cases for the other heals and I will try it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by rikken

    The vortex on malygos does 2k dmg a second for 10 seconds, everyone in a decently geared raid should have roughly 20k health, so ya that one coh will save people...
    Well, apart from the current bug that prevents you from casting it on anyone in the vortex. But I don't find it hard keeping people alive in the vortex to be honest. shields, pre-emptive renew on weak mages, SoL fheals and prom saves the day without much trouble.

    Yeah, I said renew/shield was worse than flash heal. But it's situationally useful spells anyway. This is one of those places :P

    Also if someone gets healed for 2-3k instantly that is another second for that paladin to get off their holy light 20k crit. dont be ignorant, healing is a team sport, rely on ur other healers and work on helping them instead of tryin to beat them in a number game.

    It is not to "Pad the meters" as you would say because all competent healers know that a healing meter doesnt prove anything. Anyone worried about padding the meter is just kinda silly.
    Absolutely agree on the last part.

    As - as hinted at by the first part - herein lies the problem. Because the meager healing done by a CoH will not make a difference alone, even with crit and test of faith and warlock armor all working together. Not when the mobs are hitting for 8-12k. If another healer lands his big heal (holy light, lesser healing wave, chain heal), the raider is saved anyway. If not, my CoH heal will not save him. Either way, CoH did nothing.

    CoH does work well in combination with a druid-heavy healing team or a very holypriest heavy setup. I'll give you that. But at least my guild does not have such a team. When you're the only - or second only - healer doing microscopic heals in the raid and every other heals are being big lifesavers, your heals will be insignificant. I guess it really depends on setup.

    Also Coh is ur free SoL proc, any priest with a decent amount of crit is nearly promised a Sol when they hit coh. Also try to not forget that coh does heal a decent amount when it crits (once again crit is nice for priests) and is still pretty cheap. Just because its not spammable anymore doesnt make it useless.
    Again, is CoH just an expensive way of proccing SoL? Is that really all it is good for?

    Assuming full epic garment
    ~1.5-1.8k before crit.
    less than 3k for a crit
    Monsters hit for about 8-12k

    No, I can honestly say it's not helping anyone on the hard fights in the game. You need 2-3 applications before it will save anyone. It was good when 3 casts saved 6 people. It does help and save people in naxx content. But I'm honestly not aiming to beat naxx here.

    Priests are known for having a tool for every occasion, and instead of Coh being the one button to hit because it was the most "effective" you now have another tool to add to your toolbox.
    At least for me, CoH was replaced by flash heal as the spamming button of choice. That is the peeve. CoH was getting old. Changing CoH will in the long term be a better change for priests. But I feel this has not happened as of yet. At least CoH had an internal inhibitor limiting its use - mana cost. Flash heal is my most efficient heal and hardly never the wrong spell to cast.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  13. #13

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Ive never used CoH as a spam spell and other priests doing so just made my eyes roll, even on bossfights the CoH would keep its spot as 80% healing done with. It was just sad, and the more sad thing was is that they don't even top me on the meters either, unless its endless trash and Im MCing on Raz ^^
    But, whats even more sad is now after the nerf, its still their nr 1 heal <.<

    Healing is fine after CoH nerf, I agree it was an awesome spell in "oh shit" situations in a 25man raid, ninjapulling all the trash before Faerlina for one, or stacking 20+ Gargoyle dots because of rushing through trash. But if you take those out of account, healing is fine.

    I hope they will overhaul us a bit, make some spells a bit more usefull, like my Shadowfiend, that thing dies so fast its sometimes not even worth getting it out for. Have to glyph it to make it at all usefull on some fights.

    But yeah, if the holy tree would have some nice spells coming from it that'd be nice. Desperate Prayer, more a pvp spell if you ask me, Lightwell, well don't ask me who invented that <.< CoH now on a CD, but still ok and Guardian Spirit, well that's a nice one in some situations, but that's the very last thing, bit of a shame.
    I love holy and will remain being so, just hoping things will look a bit brighter at 3.1.
    Right now Im having the Pom-throw flashes around-Renew-Pom thing going on, but a paladin is twice as good as me on that no matter how hard I try.

  14. #14

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Jane

    Right now Im having the Pom-throw flashes around-Renew-Pom thing going on, but a paladin is twice as good as me on that no matter how hard I try.
    You could just spec Discipline throw a penace and a PWS (when needed) into your current rotation and you would be twice as effective. Not trying to be mean but I just don't think enough people ever give Discipline a chance, especially if you are using a rotation like that.

  15. #15

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner

    Assuming full epic garment
    ~1.5-1.8k before crit.
    less than 3k for a crit
    Monsters hit for about 8-12k
    my coh hits for an avg of 2.4k non crit and 3.8 k crits... The tank is gettin hit for 8-12k not the raid, coh is a RAID healing tool...


    and yes coh is a great way to proc SOL and sit and regen, coupled with an IHC u can cast a free Gheal, a FREE flash heal and than with inner fire another free gheal, with the imp crit chance u can proc another SOl and another IHC

    LOTS OF REGEN TIME


    watever difference of opinions...

  16. #16

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Btw Danner you said 3 casts of coh would save 6 people but u do realize that they made coh smart meaning it heals the lowest 5 people (+the people targeted) so if ur raid is gettin hit u might be healing 15 different people with 3 different casts not including ur target...

  17. #17

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    The Priests have been divided!

    I love it, I recon its great, and im having a great time.

    So far there has only been one or 2 fight where I have wished it didnt have a CD, but swallow it up, and get back to healing.

    Agreed about the meters, healing meters are BAD, for BAD healers. Im sure the DPS or Tank can link you the heals from their own meters, AFTER THE FIGHT.

    I dont care about top healing, most of the time #1 priest beats me anyway.

    Basically my rotation is just allot more interesting. And we all need to learn to work with the other healers more.


  18. #18

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ufgood
    Seeing it first hand in our raids I can tell that the Holy priest and Druids are still on top of the charts but maybe by a much smaller margin. Its nice to see these 2 specs use more than 1 spell again ) Even after the nerf COH and Wild Regrowth seem to be the most used spells still for these specs, which is very interesting. What does everyone else think?
    Wild Growth is still a good heal, especially because you can get the full benefit on 5 people. Heaven Forbid you have to cast other spells. If you're offspec is Balance you should have longer duration HOT's....nourish is really good too.

    For Priests, you have Prayer of Mending, Power Word Shield, Flash Heal(Which has always been a great heal for raid healing, even before COH was in the game), and let's not forget Prayer of Healing, which is way stronger than COH, but with a cast timer(modified with haste)

    People who know how to heal can use other things. If you really wanted to fix the issues with COH, just up the mana cost, you can't spam it but it'd still be situtational healing. Either way a cooldown also forces you to use other things, which is what you're supposed to do anyways.

  19. #19

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    1. Healing meters are a bad way to assess healers... the CoH nerf had nothing to do with heal meters and people who think that topping the heal meter makes them a good healer or the best healer in their raid pretty much proves the fact they are the worst.

    2. CoH nerf has shown as all 1 think, Holy Priests were pushing that button without thought and now that we are forced to press other buttons its evident that other spells are just as useful as well. There is no need to spam CoH and not use any other healing spell... renew, Flash Heal (from SoL procs in particular), Holy nova (at times) and PoM are more than adequete for us to heal with.

    The nerf isn't really a nerf if you ask me, if anything it's going to force people to play better and it will really start to distinguish some good healers from the bads who only know how to press 1 button.

  20. #20

    Re: Now that the COH nerf is live, what do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by amung
    You seem to have forgotten what game you're playing.
    o.0

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