Thread: blizzard answer

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  1. #1

    blizzard answer

    Rogue nerf and consequences
    It's amazing how the raiding guilds of the world went from stacking rogues to sitting rogues in one night.

    Most of the estimates I've seen on the forums is around a 7% nerf to Assassination and a 2% nerf to Combat. That sounds about right. If you're arguing your raid can't handle that or offset it in other ways, I'm a tiny bit skeptical.

    I know it's not fun to get nerfed. Believe me. I hear about it. But the whole moral of the "sky is falling" deal is that when you exaggerate the impact of every change we make, then it makes for it hard for us and everyone else to distinguish between things that are really a big deal versus you just venting a little bit. If the sky is falling let us know that, but save it up for those episodes when it really is. (Source)

    Nerf to Combat rogues
    This question keeps coming up despite our making several attempts to answer it, so I'll just sticky it up here. Why did we nerf Combat rogues too?

    We thought Combat damage was too high as well, just not as high as Assassination. (Source)

    Hunger for Blood Nerf
    I suspect a lot of this talk is just grumbling over being nerfed in general, but I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is over Hunger for Blood. From a design perspective, it's really nice to have a knob that is so easy to tweak like that. You don't have to go potentially break other talents. You don't have to change base points or coefficients in ways that affect other specs or even lower level members of the class. In fact the mastery system for Cataclysm works somewhat similarly, giving us the ability to adjust numbers independently without causing a cascade of undesirable effects.

    To use a different example, consider Affliction locks. We want to buff their dps as I said, but we want to do it in such a way without giving them a big boost in PvP where they do pretty high damage. We don't want to over buff Destruction or Demonology (because we want Affliction to be a real choice) so we can't easily touch spells that overlap or talents that those other guys might use. If we had an Affliction talent ("Hunger for Green Fire") that let us easily tweak them up or down, then in turn we could make adjustments more easily and with less risk.

    (Let's not turn this into an Affliction thread. I just wanted to illustrate the contrast between an easy to adjust and hard to adjust tree.) (Source)
    Sry but i couldn't ressist.

    Where in the heck have u seen that the combat tree needed , that much , of a nerf ?????

    On the other hand have you even checked fights where multiple targets exist ?

    Is a 17 k dps mage ok on valkyr twins for ex. ??? While me in muti prenerf i am on 13900 ???

    I am not speaking about warriors who have it easy on valkyr twins because of cleaves.

    And so far from what i have seen the target swapping for ranged is far easier in ICC . I will not speak for upcoming bosses because changes may occur.

    Correct me if i am wrong with the above statement because all of the people who have seen what a mage can do know that i do not speak shit .

    And on the other hand how can u claim that a 5% dmg bonus talent should be a 51 pointer ??

    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20049

    Even this can be called a worthier one because it is a tier6 talent. Amirite ???

    Oh wait i am wrong because you hate rogues if we consider the manner of your reply. Thanks blizz for total ignorance.

  2. #2

    Re: blizzard answer

    If you played your class right you were OP, face it. All classes have taken nerfs in the past and tbf you were dominating meters a bit too often. Dont just pull one gimicky fight and say "look a mage is doing higher dps, nerf them". You were OP, not gonna explain again why, its in the blizz post and you got a relatively small nerf to bring the specs closer together and reduce PvE damage. Relax you'll just have to fight for your no.1 spot on recount now...

  3. #3

    Re: blizzard answer

    fights that suit casters are not as common as fights that suit melee...

    where the REAL action is rather than gimmick fights, rogues are very dominant..

    You can hardly act surprised you got nerfed... it was coming since about 2 hours after 3.3 went live and the "real" testing began on the specs.

  4. #4

    Re: blizzard answer

    TBH i did not intend to dps with 112112112112112112 spamspecc but at least show some quality of ideas blizzard.

    And to be nice and fair i wanted the nerf to be added on my assa specc.

    As for the above poster do u have a WOL report where we can see a combat rogue owning everyone ? Because this would be a serious lack of skills of any other in the raid . Warriors still have them mages still have them retris still have them .

    I never said it was not OP , i was pissed off by the way the reply of blizzard was so lacking of excuses.

    On the other hand yes we got our precious dagger of doom . hmmmmm prelegendary epic two hand is better.

    Meh we got our fancy T10 bonuses. /pokedbysomestrangelist have u checked the other classes bonuses ?

    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/world...013&pid=534914

    And to talk overall the rogue nerf would not affect him that much as for the raid. I am ok with the fact that i would be beaten in dps.

    Let's see tho some facts. We bring nothing in the raid except of dps and a good starting threat for tanks ( which i find rediculus for those who use this as a omgwtf advantage ) .

    In which way would u prefer a rogue against some other class ? His aoe his sustained dps his utility his cc ?
    If this nerf was to avoid rogues getting stacked raid spots, well then give them some viable 51 point talent, that is pretty much needed now because a 5% bonus dmg is not acceptable imo.

  5. #5

    Re: blizzard answer

    I am also not impressed with the additional nerf to HFB being a 51 point talent. I'm pretty sure Blizzard wanted the assassination tree to be more appealing but how much more will mutilate rogues be doing compared to combat rogues? Well it depends on the encounter but a 200 - 300dps difference isn't making assassination more appealing. They buffed poisons but nerfed the only mutilate talent which was HFB because they overshot the poison changes. So I ask myself, if Blizzard wants to make assassination more appealing by improving poisons which effects both trees then why nerf the only assassination talent HFB twice now? because it's an easy tweakable ability? The small nerf to bring specs closer together isn't really making assassination more appealing.

  6. #6

    Re: blizzard answer

    as a raid leader this isnt going to change how many rogues i bring to my raids in the slightest.

    if you feel your spot is now threatened due to this nerf than you either a) are not playing your rogue correctly, or b) have terrible leadership within your raiding structure

    and for fairness ... should my emblem of triumph geared rogue be beating out all the 25man geared DPS in VoA? Seriously the only DPS that can beat him atm are the 25man geared rogues ... thats not right now is it?


  7. #7
    Mechagnome Layuth's Avatar
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    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Xneon
    I am also not impressed with the additional nerf to HFB being a 51 point talent. I'm pretty sure Blizzard wanted the assassination tree to be more appealing but how much more will mutilate rogues be doing compared to combat rogues? Well it depends on the encounter but a 200 - 300dps difference isn't making assassination more appealing. They buffed poisons but nerfed the only mutilate talent which was HFB because they overshot the poison changes. So I ask myself, if Blizzard wants to make assassination more appealing by improving poisons which effects both trees then why nerf the only assassination talent HFB twice now? because it's an easy tweakable ability? The small nerf to bring specs closer together isn't really making assassination more appealing.
    Try having starfall as your 51pt talent. Then talk about nerfs!

    And oh yeah, its the OP balance druid talent.
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  8. #8

    Re: blizzard answer

    Are any results out on how much mutilate is doing vs combat? did Aldarina say around 2 - 3 days on the spreadsheet?

  9. #9

    Re: blizzard answer

    Bad players will whine constantly. Play the game, enjoy the times with your guild while you defeat new content.
    This is coming from a shadow priest, worst vanilla and tbc class. I didn't quit and I find it fun. If you don't, quit and don't make useless stupid QQ posts about your damage. You don't get respect from pugs posting your damage done after VoA where you played with nearly dinged DKs anyway.

  10. #10

    Re: blizzard answer

    I wasn't trying to QQ. I just don't understand Blizzards concept of making Assassination more appealing. I used to be combat up until 3.3. Now i'm from players that combat will be the way to go. I guess spreadsheets will answer the question possibly.

  11. #11

    Re: blizzard answer

    You had around a 2k dps difference from other dpsers , (speaking from a hybrid PoV).

    While im at 7k/8k, you're at 10k or 11k. Even compared to other pure dpsers theres a considerable difference.

  12. #12

    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilmanuran
    And on the other hand how can u claim that a 5% dmg bonus talent should be a 51 pointer ??

    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20049
    Where is this 5% dmg bonus? Last time i checked, it's 3%...
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  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans ElAmigo's Avatar
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    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Layuth
    Try having starfall as your 51pt talent. Then talk about nerfs!

    And oh yeah, its the OP balance druid talent.
    lol this
    "Didn't we have some fun...though? Remember when the platform was sliding into the fire pit and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'No way' and then I was all 'We pretended we were going to murder you'......that was great"

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Bad players will whine constantly. Play the game, enjoy the times with your guild while you defeat new content.
    This is coming from a shadow priest, worst vanilla and tbc class. I didn't quit and I find it fun. If you don't, quit and don't make useless stupid QQ posts about your damage. You don't get respect from pugs posting your damage done after VoA where you played with nearly dinged DKs anyway.
    On a side note, shadow worst vanilla class? Good lord you and your other shadow priests were terrible. The shadow priest in my guild was top 3 in DPS and healing in every encounter we brought him to as shadow. BC I can agree, however, they definitely fell off the map then and only finally started to get back on it with 3.3.

    I do agree with the "stop the QQ and l2p" statement, though. Sounds to me like you were just a bad rogue. The fact that you brought up the most caster friendly gimmick fight ever as your idea of a DPS comparison amuses me greatly. I guess you didn't obther to look at those 3.2 DPS meters for Anub 25, did you. You know, the ones with rogues pulling 11k DPS in mostly ilvl 232/245 gear.

    Rogue was getting to BC levels of overtoned. The nerf was necessary. Sorry, rogue does not translate to "must top meters 98% of the time unless you're bad". Reroll if you don't like that notion.

  15. #15

    Re: blizzard answer

    Just be glad you're not an Elemental Shaman, or were a Shadow Priest pre 3.3.
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  16. #16
    Dreadlord
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    Re: blizzard answer

    I'd like to see bleeds getting buffed and envenom/eviscerate getting nerfed a bit, so that rogues have to go back to some kind of rotation.

  17. #17

    Re: blizzard answer

    i have never played a rogue beyond level 20 and i dont want to get into the specifics of the current nerfs. all i want to know is...why do ppl have an issue with rogues doing 1000-2000 dps more than any other class when they are the only class in the game that brings ABSOLUTELY NO buffs to the raid
    there is no mistake so great as that of trying to convince someone they're wrong

  18. #18

    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown
    On a side note, shadow worst vanilla class? Good lord you and your other shadow priests were terrible. The shadow priest in my guild was top 3 in DPS and healing in every encounter we brought him to as shadow. BC I can agree, however, they definitely fell off the map then and only finally started to get back on it with 3.3.
    Spriests in vanilla melted faces and souls and made babies cry miles away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown
    Rogue was getting to BC levels of overtoned. The nerf was necessary. Sorry, rogue does not translate to "must top meters 98% of the time unless you're bad". Reroll if you don't like that notion.
    It's called scaling with gear; it happens at the end of every expansion. Melee classes have ALWAYS scaled WAY better with gear than casters.
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  19. #19

    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Cotech
    I'd like to see bleeds getting buffed and envenom/eviscerate getting nerfed a bit, so that rogues have to go back to some kind of rotation.
    But what if I like doing these rotations for combat?
    1, 1, 1, 5, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 5, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 5
    And this for mutilate?
    F, 4, 4, 1, 1, 5, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 4, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3
    Did I mention how fun rogue rotations are?

    And a 5% increase as a 51-point talent? That's kind of weak...

    Quote Originally Posted by gamarlon
    i have never played a rogue beyond level 20 and i dont want to get into the specifics of the current nerfs. all i want to know is...why do ppl have an issue with rogues doing 1000-2000 dps more than any other class when they are the only class in the game that brings ABSOLUTELY NO buffs to the raid
    Oh and lulz.
    A 15% damage increase with a 20% uptime if executed perfectly isn't a buff to the raid?

  20. #20

    Re: blizzard answer

    Quote Originally Posted by gamarlon
    i have never played a rogue beyond level 20 and i dont want to get into the specifics of the current nerfs. all i want to know is...why do ppl have an issue with rogues doing 1000-2000 dps more than any other class when they are the only class in the game that brings ABSOLUTELY NO buffs to the raid
    Are you stupid. I stay combat for the raid buff we give every raid needs atleast 1 combat rogue for th 4% extra physical damage done to that target. L2 research before you post.

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