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  1. #1

    Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    I wanted to start a thread to discuss what everyone's "best" gear setup would be like with the current content.
    Please feel free to post what gear you want and why, including what pieces you would sacrifice an actual dps best in slot for a piece with hit.
    Also, please keep in mind that we need 289 hit, so please don't just say "I'll take all the iLevel 226 gear I can plox..."

    I have put together my own list, but it would seem there are several pieces I could swap around, so I wanted to see what everyone else thought would be "optimal itemization."

    My list is as follows:

    Hood of Rationality(Malygos(25))
    Wyrmrest Necklace of Power(Heroic Quest Reward) - With JC prismatic, Need for hit
    Valorous Mantle of Faith(Loatheb/Gluth(25)) - Need for hit
    Gown of the Spellweaver(Malygos(10)) - Need for hit
    Pennant Cloak(Sartharion 2 Drakes(25)) - With JC prismatic
    Unsullied Cuffs(Sartharion 2 Drakes(25))
    Valorous Handwraps of Faith(Sartharion(25))
    Cincture of Polarity(Thaddius(25)) - Need for hit
    Leggings of Mortal Arrogance(KT(25))
    Boots of Persuasion(Patchwerk(25)) - With JC prismatic
    Signet of Manifested Pain(KT(25))
    Lost Jewel(KT(25))
    Torch of Holy Fire(KT(25))
    Surplus Limb(Gluth/Grobbulus?(25))- Replace with Accursed Spine if you find hit elsewhere
    Plague Igniter(Grobbulus(25))
    Dying Curse(Shared drop off 4 Naxx bosses(25)) - Replace with Illustration of the Dragonsoul if you find hit elsewhere
    Sundial - (40 Badges of Heroism)

    It seems like you could pick up either Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster(Malygos(25)) or Boots of Impetuous Ideals(Loatheb(25)) as replacements somewhere in there...lemme know what you think
    The Lost Jewel is also shared drop off several bosses in Naxx 25, not off of KT

  2. #2

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    I dont really play casters, so the application of dots might really jank up your rotations and so on, but from a melee standpoint...

    Why bother with hit if another item is going to increase your DPS more than the hit would? Best in slot implies that no other piece will increase your DPS more.

    For me, it'd be

    Obsidian Greathelm
    Favor of the Dragonqueen
    Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates
    Drape of the Deadly Foe
    Valorous Redemption Tunic
    Bracers of Unrelenting Attack
    Valorous Redemption Gauntlets (Not the best item for the slot, but the 4 piece bonus more than makes up the difference)
    Belt of the Tortured
    Valorous Redemption legplates (Again, not the best, but best in slot is only about 10 dps higher.)
    Melancholy Sabatons
    Surge Needle Ring
    Ruthlessness
    Darkmoon Card: Greatness
    Loatheb's Shadow
    Libram of Radiance
    Cryptfiend's Bite (If I'm not going to take the BEST weapon in the game, I might as well take one that I like the looks of) With Icebreaker enchant, because honestly, if my gear's already this good, who cares about the 20-40 DPS that a stronger enchant would get me?


  3. #3

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    http://www.chardev.org/?template=112286

    did this in a hurry but somthing a bit on these lines

  4. #4

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by PalliesThrowStuff
    Why bother with hit if another item is going to increase your DPS more than the hit would? Best in slot implies that no other piece will increase your DPS more.
    "Best in slot" looks at the slot, and only the slot.

    It does not look at your overall hit, (your overall expertise), or any other overall stat.

    You could end up with every slot having a "best in slot" item, and having 0 hit (and 0 expertise). That, however, wouldn't get you very far in overall DPS.

    It's a balancing act of keeping enough hit (and expertise as melee), while pumping up all the other stats as much as you possibly can.

  5. #5

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    The best setup I can get working with the numbers from www.shadowpriest.com is as follows

    Hood of Rationality
    Wyrmrest Necklace of Power
    Mantle of Dissemination
    Pennant Cloak
    Gown of the Spell-Weaver
    Unsullied Cuffs
    Valorous Handwraps of Faith
    Leash of Heedless Magic
    Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster
    Arcanic Tramplers
    Signet of Manifested Pain
    Lost Jewel
    Illustration of the Dragon Soul
    Dying Curse
    Torch of Holy Fire
    Accursed Spine
    Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians

    As per the stat weights listed at www.shadowpriest.com I can't see a better setup than the above and I have made serveral different gear setups on many spreadsheets. This does leave you 2 hit under the cap but i'm not really worried about missing once in a blue moon.

  6. #6

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Oke this is my ideal set: (still working on getting quite some of the pieces)

    Head: Hood of Rationality --> Malygos 25 man.
    Neck: Wyrmrest Necklace of Power --> Quest item from Sapphiron 25 man.
    Shoulders: Valorous Mantle Of Faith --> Naxx 25 man.
    Cloak: Pennant Cloak --> 25 man Sartharion while leaving 2 drakes alive.
    Chest: Gown of the Spell-weaver --> Malygos 10 man.
    Wrist: Unsullied cuffs --> 25 man Sartharion while leaving 2 drakes alive.
    Gloves: Valorous Handwraps of Faith --> 25 man Naxx.
    Belt: Leash of Heedless Magic --> 25 man Malygos.
    Pants: Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster --> 25 man Malygos.
    Boots: Arcanic Tramplers --> 25 man Malygos.
    Ring1: Signet of Manifested Pain --> 25 man Kelthuzad.
    Ring2: Lost Jewel --> 25 man Naxx.
    Trinket1: Extract of Necromatic nerubians --> 25 man Sapphiron.
    Trinket2: Sundial of the Exiled --> Badge reward.
    Weapon: Torch of Holy Fire --> 25 man Kelthuzad.
    offhand: Surplus Limp --> 25 man Patchwerk or Grobbulus.
    Wand: Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians --> 25 man Anub'rekhan.

    This way your Hitcapped and in my eyes have the best balance between Crit, Haste and spellpower.

  7. #7

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.


    Why would you use The Extract of Necromatic Power? I think most people are happy to agree the numbers presented on www.shadowpriest.com are relatively accurate and they have this trinket ranked quite low compared to what you could have. Granted that www.shadowpriest.com doesn't provide numbers that include SF, SW and other buffs the proc benefits from, have you got some numbers to support it is far better?

    In addition dying curse looks to be one of the most effecient places to get hit, perhaps the most effecient... Just as a comparison, dying curse will cost you 10 PP from the next best in slot item to gain 71 hit or about 7.1 hit per loss of PP. You like the valorous shoulders in your gear setup, presumably for the hit over the best in slot item which is the Mantle of Dissemenation... just for this slot you are giving up 20PP for 41 hit which is about 2 hit per loss of PP which is a lot worse than utilising dying curse.

    I can't see how that could be the best setup for that reason.

  8. #8

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    there is no better Trinket combo than Dying Curse & Illustration of the Dragon Soul



    Extract of Necromatic nerubians is bad, rly bad.... on sp.com the calculate the procc @ 15s procc rate.. but mine and other testing seems to proove that it proccs only every ~35s. That makes it even worse than listed on sp.com ( even with incalculate Crit/SF etc.)

    The List from Worshaka seem pretty the best one. And for those who want to be 100% Hit capped just take another wand(Plaque something/ Grobbulus 25) and another off hand( surplus limp). You will loose PP but ure 100% hitcapped.. or exchange shoulders...dunno which want is better

    But i can life with 288 hit rating


  9. #9

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Why would you use The Extract of Necromatic Power? I think most people are happy to agree the numbers presented on www.shadowpriest.com are relatively accurate and they have this trinket ranked quite low compared to what you could have. Granted that www.shadowpriest.com doesn't provide numbers that include SF, SW and other buffs the proc benefits from, have you got some numbers to support it is far better?

    In addition dying curse looks to be one of the most effecient places to get hit, perhaps the most effecient... Just as a comparison, dying curse will cost you 10 PP from the next best in slot item to gain 71 hit or about 7.1 hit per loss of PP. You like the valorous shoulders in your gear setup, presumably for the hit over the best in slot item which is the Mantle of Dissemenation... just for this slot you are giving up 20PP for 41 hit which is about 2 hit per loss of PP which is a lot worse than utilising dying curse.

    I can't see how that could be the best setup for that reason.
    Well i dont follow shdpriest.com because most of the calculation there are not even completely valid or correct and are based on 0 lag / delay, which is not possible with human reactions etc.

    Why would I use the Dying curse trinket if I can get hitcapped in other ways. I do admit after some testing that the extract trinket is rubbish. Thank god I have the Illustration of the dragon soul aswell to replace it with :P

    I am using the T7.5 shoulders for a couple of reasons:
    1) It gets me Hitcapped (if I get all the pieces of the set I linked of course)
    2) The MB set bonus is quite nice to have.
    3) They look pro compared with the dissem shoulders :P.
    4) At my level of crit I prefer Haste over Crit. Raidbuffed I would have around 25 - 30% crit and 17% ish haste.

    But in the end it all comes down to personal favoritism anyway :P.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    5,275

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    In regards to [item=40373]

    I based my opinions about it, on WWS logs. The damage output is to low compared to that of superiour trinkets. So while it's better than a blue trinket, there are several upgrades, and it wouldn't be part of a final gear set for Ulduar for me.

    Feel free to disagree, but numbers rarely lie.

  11. #11

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    dying curse procs a bit more than sundial of the exiled.
    And extract of necromantic power doesnt benefit of bloodlust, pots and other buffs

  12. #12

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by K21Nova
    "Best in slot" looks at the slot, and only the slot.

    It does not look at your overall hit, (your overall expertise), or any other overall stat.

    You could end up with every slot having a "best in slot" item, and having 0 hit (and 0 expertise). That, however, wouldn't get you very far in overall DPS.

    It's a balancing act of keeping enough hit (and expertise as melee), while pumping up all the other stats as much as you possibly can.
    That's quite not true. A best in slot item is a a part of the set that gives the highest possible dps with the gear currently available. This set is usually produced my tools such as Rawr when it comes to dps classes. The result is, if you have every best in slot item, you have the best gear available, and you can't get better(that is, unless there's a flaw in the theorycrafting that the tool used). Note that best in slot items calculated based on a EP system is NOT a true best in slot item

  13. #13

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by K21Nova
    "Best in slot" looks at the slot, and only the slot.

    It does not look at your overall hit
    this.

    www.shadowpriest.com for amazingness. they list highest PP(PseudoPower) values for items. your goal is to find the highest PP value for yourself while maintaining hit cap.

    There is a user in the WOTLK Raid Gear thread, Cady I think, that came up with a formula of "Top PP Item Value - PP of the Top Hit Item = PP Lost" Then you can use "Hit / PP Lost = #". The higher the # the better. Now, with this new number, we can find which items with hit rating are point for point better then the pure PP dps items. After we get a couple of these items, and are now at hit cap; 290 + talents, we can simply choose the best PP items and not worry about hit anymore.


    Worshaka posted a great list except this "This does leave you 2 hit under the cap but i'm not really worried about missing once in a blue moon.". He's trying to save about 4 PP by sacrificing 2 hit rating. Not a big deal but RNG could bite you in the ass or you could never miss. If you wanted to do it right then swap his last two items. Or here I'll copy and paste.

    Hood of Rationality
    Wyrmrest Necklace of Power
    Mantle of Dissemination
    Pennant Cloak
    Gown of the Spell-Weaver
    Unsullied Cuffs
    Valorous Handwraps of Faith
    Leash of Heedless Magic
    Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster
    Arcanic Tramplers
    Signet of Manifested Pain
    Lost Jewel
    Illustration of the Dragon Soul
    Dying Curse
    Torch of Holy Fire
    Surplus Limb
    Plague Igniter

  14. #14
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    5,275

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    To be a bit fair, the Psudo Power is from SimulationCraft, and not shadowpriest.com

    shadowpriest.com just do what wowhead allready support, adding weight-scales to the gear stats, and calculate a relative-to-eachother gear result.

    I personally prefer using wowhead over a forum list, with the exception of trinkets.

  15. #15

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    and the creator of SimulationCraft is a prominent member of shadowpriest.com

    and to be a bit fair :P shadowpriest.com does a lot more than just copy+paste numbers

  16. #16

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenz
    That's quite not true. A best in slot item is a a part of the set that gives the highest possible dps with the gear currently available. This set is usually produced my tools such as Rawr when it comes to dps classes. The result is, if you have every best in slot item, you have the best gear available, and you can't get better(that is, unless there's a flaw in the theorycrafting that the tool used). Note that best in slot items calculated based on a EP system is NOT a true best in slot item
    Wrong.  "Best in slot" is a relative term, depending on how whatever tool you use accounts for hit.  Just for examples sake, if a best in slot ilvl226 item expends a lot of its budget on +hit, it will be best in slot for anyone who needs hit.  If that person's other gear leaves him hitcapped, then all the ilvl budget this item spends on hit is wasted.  

    Example (purely fictional items):  
    An ilvl 226 offhand with +150hit vs. ilvl50 offhand with +10 crit

    If you are already hitcapped with other gear, the latter is a better "in-slot" item between the two. Obviously in the real world you would take the former and change your other gear such that you fully utilize the stats, but you get my point.


  17. #17

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubermonkey

    Worshaka posted a great list except this "This does leave you 2 hit under the cap but i'm not really worried about missing once in a blue moon.". He's trying to save about 4 PP by sacrificing 2 hit rating. Not a big deal but RNG could bite you in the ass or you could never miss. If you wanted to do it right then swap his last two items.

    Hood of Rationality
    Wyrmrest Necklace of Power
    Mantle of Dissemination
    Pennant Cloak
    Gown of the Spell-Weaver
    Unsullied Cuffs
    Valorous Handwraps of Faith
    Leash of Heedless Magic
    Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster
    Arcanic Tramplers
    Signet of Manifested Pain
    Lost Jewel
    Illustration of the Dragon Soul
    Dying Curse
    Torch of Holy Fire
    Surplus Limb
    Plague Igniter
    Being 12 over the hit cap is far worse than being 2 under... if being 2 hit under the cap bothers you that much swap out one of your Potent Monarch Topaz's for a Vieled and that way you're only 6 over the hit cap.

  18. #18

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Being 12 over the hit cap is far worse than being 2 under... if being 2 hit under the cap bothers you that much swap out one of your Potent Monarch Topaz's for a Vieled and that way you're only 6 over the hit cap.
    If your over the hit cap while still attaining the highest PP values then it doesn't hurt in the slightest. It doesn't help either but it doesn't hurt. Being 2 under hit could. I'm not arguing that 2 under is bad. My priest at the moment is around 6 under.
    Also, according to current SimulationCraft, Surplus Limb + Plague Igniter has a higher PP value than your Accursed Spine + Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians in this setup. None of these items have a good enough bonus to justify taking an orange gem over a Runed Scarlet Ruby.

    This setup has two yellow sockets with the gloves being the best at 6 crit.

    97.61 Surplus Limb
    60.48 Plague Igniter
    19 Runed Scarlet Ruby
    = 177.09

    106.9 Accursed Spine
    54.82 Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians
    9 Veiled Monarch Topaz
    3.72 Socket Bonus of 6 Crit
    = 174.44

    = 180.72 If you don't worry about the hit and just use a Runed gem. So spending 2 hit to gain about 4 PP. I wouldn't know how to theory craft something like how a miss would affect overall damage vs 4 extra pp on every attack. So I guess I'm not sure who is right.

  19. #19

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubermonkey
    If your over the hit cap while still attaining the highest PP values then it doesn't hurt in the slightest. It doesn't help either but it doesn't hurt. Being 2 under hit could. I'm not arguing that 2 under is bad. My priest at the moment is around 6 under.
    Also, according to current SimulationCraft, Surplus Limb + Plague Igniter has a higher PP value than your Accursed Spine + Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians in this setup. None of these items have a good enough bonus to justify taking an orange gem over a Runed Scarlet Ruby.

    This setup has two yellow sockets with the gloves being the best at 6 crit.

    97.61 Surplus Limb
    60.48 Plague Igniter
    19 Runed Scarlet Ruby
    = 177.09

    106.9 Accursed Spine
    54.82 Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians
    9 Veiled Monarch Topaz
    3.72 Socket Bonus of 6 Crit
    = 174.44

    = 180.72 If you don't worry about the hit and just use a Runed gem. So spending 2 hit to gain about 4 PP. I wouldn't know how to theory craft something like how a miss would affect overall damage vs 4 extra pp on every attack. So I guess I'm not sure who is right.
    No they don't... you are calculating PP from Hit which changes to 0 once you are hit capped.

    Just for example, my gear setup includes Accursed Spine which is 106.9 PP... the Surplus Limb has a PP (excluding hit) of 97.61 but if you need hit it can go as high as 134.73... in my case my gear setup puts me at 288 hit so swapping the Accursed Spine for the Surplus Limb would mean I gain 2 of the hit PP on the surplus limb 97.61 + 2*1.12 = 99.85 which is below 106.9... therefore the Accursed Spine is the better option.

    I'll direct you to this quote from www.shadowpriest.com about hit values.

    "There are two ways to use the hit numbers:
    1) Ignore the orange pseudopower numbers and only use the white to reach the highest total possible. If you're not nearly hit-capped then decide on which piece of gear(or a gem) will offer the best +hit gained:PP lost ratio while being mindful of exactly how much +hit is needed.
    2) Use only the orange pseudopower numbers(or white for items without hit) and count each point in Shadow Focus/Misery as 31.44 PP to reach the highest total possible. Remember though that hit rating is worth 0 once hit-capped, so this method will only work when total hit rating is at maximum a few points above the required amount at the given level of Shadow Focus/Misery. "

  20. #20

    Re: Hit...or best in slot...what to choose.

    Lastly, can I just say that 2 hit rating gives me a 0.0762% miss chance (blizzard rounds to 4 signficant digits)... you are pushing shit up hill to convince me that missing one in every 1312 casts is going to cause a wipe.

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