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  1. #41

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    The mere thought of a Priest complaining about a Paladin's group healing capabilities is to much for me to wrap my brain around!

    I can remember a time... back in good old BWL (I was a Mage or Priest back then)... when 40 people struggled together to get the boss down and in the end no one cared about who did more healing as long as every healer kept their designated targets alive. Seems to be gone for good.

    To clarify - once and for all: Glyph of Holy Light was terribly OP with it's increased range of 20y. Took me something like the first 2 trashpacks Naxx/Military to notice. Since we european players had the change roughly 24h after the US, my comment in our healer's chatchannel ("Gee - that's way too OP. Bet they'll nerf it right away!") must've coincided more or less with the hotfix to the US-servers when they indeed nerfed it right away.

    Now with 8m it at least gives paladins a fighting chance to do fights like the Gatekeeper in Azjol without a shaman in the group and without a sheer massacre to their keyboards. For raids, especially 25s, you still have a very restrictive requirement to your raid positioning if you want to make perfect use of the group heal. It can in no way compete with PoM and even a 6 sec. CD CoH's power - and ANY Priest (even Disc!) who gets outhealed on Loatheb by a Paladin just plain old sucks. Sorry, but that really really sucks!
    There is exactly one fight where the Glyph of Holy Light still absolutely dominates (and there it did even with 5y range): Razuvious - melee splash-heal. This is just because first the Paladin of course spams Holy Light to keep the disciple up and second Razuvious' hitbox is so ridiculously small that all melees are almost constantly within 5y (or 8y now) of the disciple. On that fight I get an easy 40% of my total heal from the glyph (of which again easily 60-70% are just overheal) and 10k HPS are quite normal. If you have 2 Paladins on the disciples they can keep the melees up single-handedly. Oh my got - they should definitely nerf that! /irony off.

  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Its the judgement that does the biggest job, even if Glyph (of palaCoH) does a lot to.

    Yes, it is (if enough ppl close) like a free CoH with a HL as i understood? Not bad

    You are right in 1 thing, palas must be able to handle AoE dmg to, but then they should do it with real spells, not passive ones?

  3. #43

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby
    Wee, another poster who cba to read all before posting..
    What didnt i read besides "QQ please i want my old /afk CoH back".

    Try for yourself to not heal with any instant heals at all one fight and you will see that for a paladin to be able to get so much healing the raid healers must slack as hell, ofc JoL can heal for alot but that is mostly over healing, same with GoH it can heal for 50% of our healing done but then the raid healers must be terrible to leave so many people with so low health for such a long while + its totaly random who gets the heal.

    And even if we were alittle viable as aoe healers why do you want us nerfed? Is it because you think its booring to heal a tank and never stop casting on him and never look on anyones else health but his/hers? Is it so you get alot harder content because 1 healers should not be viable at all to heal more then 1 person per fight?

    Lets take yesterdays Mylagos for example, we had 3 holy paladins so i had to raid heal. Strange thing was that i never stoped casted holy light since if i did that people would die, even when doing that i ended up at 3:d spot on healing and was totaly oom (like ppl should be) when p3 started, while the priest was 1:th with about 80% mana left and druid had 100% mana. Its not my gear that is wrong since i have among the best gear in the guild, and have stacked int (26k mana) so i wont go oom.

    So you wanted that we should have called that raid since i should not be able to do another healers work even alittle like i can now?

    and like what spells? We dont have more then 3 spells ffs.

  4. #44

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    i'll try it one last time:

    for one, the EFFECTIVE heal , the heal that is effective, healing a target that isn't maxed out on hp , is around 30 % of those numbers you are referring to.

    so for those fights, where every single dd gets dmg throughout the entire fight it MAY be effective, for all other fights its plain overheal.

    as for the glyph, it will heal 5 members within 8 yards of the healed target.

    do u understand that?

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    the numbers i stated are effective heals. And i know very well how the Glyph works.

  6. #46

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    if you have a holy pally pulling 6k hps and its all effective, and the priest is pulling less than that, in that case you have an exceptionally good holy paladin, and instead of bitch about it, you should be glad you have someone so talented in your group

    holy pallies top the meters on saph, so what? i look at the wws from each boss in my naxx raid and i dont see holy paladins as the #1 healer on more then 2-4 fights.

    so youre going to cry about holy paladins being able to group heal or raid heal "better" than group healers.

    lets say we take that away from them, and leave them with nothing but holy light and flash of light again, remove the JoL and the glyph. What would happen? they would be in the same spot they were in for TBC, where as raid progression moved on, they became completely worthless and raids would bring a maximum of one for sunwell, maybe 2 if no one logged on.

    sorry that paladins arent on the backburner anymore. i personally got so tired of seeing a shaman as the number one healer on my meters in tbc, through ssc, tk and hyjal, that i just disabled recount

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    I am extremly happy we have this superb paladin, I am just shocked they are nr1 at the worst AoE fights, but maybe i should just get used to that.

  8. #48

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby
    I am extremly happy we have this superb paladin, I am just shocked they are nr1 at the worst AoE fights, but maybe i should just get used to that.
    Why exactly is it that you feel so horrible about that? What is wrong with a Paladin being in that oh so precious "nr1 - spot"? That it isn't your name in that spot? If I had a healer selfish enough to say that in my raid the raidlead-council would meet and bench him for at least week to clear his head!

    It is so absolutely ridiculous for priests to complain about Paladin group-heal. Go talk to your Paladins, let the Ret-Pally judge light on Sapph and see what happens. In our raid the Prot-Pally judges Light and "ohoh wtf" - the Maintank suddenly is nr3 on healing. SO WHAT?

  9. #49

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenttich
    Paladin AoE healing is overpowered? I thought I'd never see the day
    Paladin is overpowered in healing one target, two targets, and in healing 5+targets. Actuallz paladins is really strong now. I love my healing.

  10. #50
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by EzriEU
    Why exactly is it that you feel so horrible about that? What is wrong with a Paladin being in that oh so precious "nr1 - spot"? That it isn't your name in that spot? If I had a healer selfish enough to say that in my raid the raidlead-council would meet and bench him for at least week to clear his head!

    It is so absolutely ridiculous for priests to complain about Paladin group-heal. Go talk to your Paladins, let the Ret-Pally judge light on Sapph and see what happens. In our raid the Prot-Pally judges Light and "ohoh wtf" - the Maintank suddenly is nr3 on healing. SO WHAT?
    I am a grouphealer, and paladin is (or i will say was now, since they are doing it all;P), and being outhealed by tankhealer pushing 1 button, yes, makes me emo

  11. #51

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    What I don't get is...I am assuming the people crying about meters raid with a guild? Why the hell are you crying if a paladin is topping the meters? As a few people have mentioned, be grateful to have someone in the group who can bring teh h34lz. I am glad my guild pays little attention to heal meters.

    I do remember on my old one though, our main healer so to speak used to get caught up a bit with meters and was constantly telling people not to bother about them. I couldn't help but feel he was annoyed, he was the best geared holy paladin and probably the best geared or second best healer but he was always about 4th or 5th on the meters. It annoyed me when he said it, because I didn't pay any attention to the meters, I'd the WWS report at the end just to satisfy my own curiosity.

    When I go to a raid, I just heal stuff. If someone is losing health, I throw them a heal, more often than not someone will get in before me, I don't care though, it is better to be safe than sorry and its more important to work for the benefit of the raid, not someones ego.

    If you are getting pissed off that a paladin is out healing you, to be honest, if I was a raid leader I'd stop inviting you till you grew up. You want your best people in a raid, you want your healers pumping out as much healing as they can, and your dps pumping out as much dps as they can.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    That chick needed some spicy salmon, need to buff that hit rating.

  12. #52

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby
    I am a grouphealer, and paladin is (or i will say was now, since they are doing it all;P), and being outhealed by tankhealer pushing 1 button, yes, makes me emo
    The games changed... Vanilla had every healer (and class) being vastly different. A group actually brought very diverse pieces together and worked with one another to be efficient. With the whole, making lots of aoe fights in 5 mans, and such, more versatility was needed for each healer. This started in TBC, and it's continuing on in Wrath more and more. The gap between a tried and true group healer vs a tank healer, is shrinking. Shaman LHW in Wrath comes to mind, they could just spam that 100% of the time, bam, best tank healing. That's coming from TBC's star AoE healer (CoH priests also were great AoE healers, but only much much later in the game, and fights like KJ made CoH and CH less useful due to the amount of spreading). So just take it for what it is. The classes are getting more and more similar, more and more versatile, and that's kinda what it is. Dissapointing from a raid standpoint somewhat, but the nature of the situation none the less.

    Oh and, yes, healing meters don't really matter. It's just good for when you bring that new healer and he's got 10% of everyone else's healing, you know something's wrong

  13. #53
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Another one who cba to read...

    I dont even use Recount in raids. I checked WWS this time to see how healing changed after patches and class changes. And i saw Paladins were nr1 at AoE fights and i thought this was impossible, but my paladin friend told me how to do; "spam HL and dont care if it's overhealing, you will heal group a lot". If you don't understand why a 5-6 button pusher grouphealing priest react, then ok, so be it

  14. #54
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Yes, I've raided with my priest from Kara to SWP, so I have seen some smaller changes, but this is kinda big

  15. #55

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby
    I am a grouphealer, and paladin is (or i will say was now, since they are doing it all;P), and being outhealed by tankhealer pushing 1 button, yes, makes me emo
    If you still are under the belief that paladins push 1 button and still doing their job, you could not be more wrong.
    That being said, I'd swap my holy light glyph with your CoH any day of the week.
    Geostigma - Paladin - Grim Batol
    Geocloud - Rogue - Grim Batol
    Stigmatico - Warrior - Stormreaver
    Geostygma - Warlock - Stormreaver

  16. #56

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    So ... noone bother to read the blue post that came like a week after the last patch stating that glyph of HL will get nerfed to 8yrd since Blizzard also saw how OP it is ?

    I just hope someone else talked about it in the first 4 pages of QQ.

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Yes, 1 Spell, HL.

    And gimme that Judge instead!

    Tbh, it is maybe a new time, where paladins can heal an insane amount passivly, but its like you say, they can't decide where to heal, but at encounters where a big potion of the raid do take dmg, it doesnt matter so much. Maybe they nerfed druids+priest to give paladins some chance to groupheal aswell, if that is the explanation, I could buy it.

    But Blizzard havent rly expressed themselves like that

  18. #58
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias
    So ... noone bother to read the blue post that came like a week after the last patch stating that glyph of HL will get nerfed to 8yrd since Blizzard also saw how OP it is ?

    I just hope someone else talked about it in the first 4 pages of QQ.
    Old! :P

  19. #59

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Hello, I'm a holy paladin. I have this new overpowered spell, it makes me heal one target for alot, and IF there is someone close to him. It heals that player for around two thousand. I need to be nerfed!

    I would rather have a on demand AoE heal that can be controlled, and got a "smart" mechanic. Instead of this random, it MAY AoE heal glyph. Try healing a group that is spread out with my overpowered AoE heal, then come back.

    Priest buttons according to nobodysbaby: 5-6
    Paladin buttons: Judge, HL, FL, Sacred Shield, Holy Shock. Cooldowns and durations we have to monitor: Beacon, Infusion, Seal, JotP.

    Gosh, we're not doing shit really.
    Geostigma - Paladin - Grim Batol
    Geocloud - Rogue - Grim Batol
    Stigmatico - Warrior - Stormreaver
    Geostygma - Warlock - Stormreaver

  20. #60

    Re: Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

    Will Blizzard try to fix the Holy Light power-spam by:

    1. Trying to balance it only around a high mana cost even though it was considered impossible for CoH?
    2. Nerfing its throughput to the ground and letting them spam it all they want?
    3. Giving Holy Light a cooldown?

    Place your bets!

    (More seriously, they can't keep a spell with that kind of throughput spammable in Ulduar where much less of its potential will be overhealing. It would definately trivialize certain kinds of encounters.)

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