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  1. #1

    Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Hey all, im MTing Sarth 3D tonight for (hopefully) our guilds first kill. Im comfortably sitting on 35k life unbuffed, 51k raidbuffed with VB active, good avoidance, good threat etc.
    I have a few questions though, that maybe some of those with experience on this fight can answer for me;

    1) Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Spellshattering?
    This ties into which spec i use (SG is better for unholy, since the avoidance equates to longer Bone Shield duration), but so far i am leaning towards SG anyway, simply because the extra HP i can gain from using 2x stamina trinkets (whereas, without SG i would need to put in a defense trinket) should really outweigh the damage reduction given by Spellshattering.

    2) Unholy or Blood?
    This is the real question. Both trees have some valuable talents, but im struggling to decide between them;
    Vampiric Blood vs Bone Shield: These two fill pretty similar roles. The problem is knowing - without having done it before - if i can guaranteed survive a breath with one of these active. My GF tanked Sarth 3d (but we didnt down him) on my character last week, and although she was using a slightly lower stamina setup than i plan to, she said that even with Vampiric Blood up, i could still get 1-shotted by the breaths, which is obviously bad, but Bone Shield is now only a 20% damage reduction, and im not sure if that would be enough to keep me alive through the breaths. Both have an approximate uptime of 30 seconds (assuming both are glyphed), so that isnt an issue.

    Will of the Necropolis vs Magic Suppression: 5% passive magic reduction vs 15% off anything that takes me below 35%, its an easy win for WotN here, the talent was pretty much made for this kind of fight.

    Additionally, unholy has access to Anti-Magic Zone, which is obviously great for surviving a breath every 2 mins.


    Finally, is Frost worth a shot? Acclimation stacked up 3 times combined with an aura grants a total of 280 Fire Res. Is that enough resistance to make sure i can survive breaths? Does it justify the loss of the other nice talents in unholy or blood?


    At the moment im leaning towards unholy, with a build like: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMV...fg00xcoxeoocou

    Getting all the unholy goodness, plus VotTW and Spell Deflection from Blood. It means dropping a point in toughness, but that 3% armor wont help me against breaths, whereas Veteran will.

  2. #2

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMqI0IsbRzhZZbg0Gx0oGh
    43 0 28, sarth3d MT build
    15% frost pres
    15% will of the necro
    4% spellshattering
    2% meta gem
    3% magic suprrsion
    3% blessing of sant

    depending on gear and raid dps you can solo the death breaths
    Val'anyr Completed: July 9
    Mimiron's Head
    Comablack @ magtheridon

  3. #3

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by comablack
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EMqI0IsbRzhZZbg0Gx0oGh
    43 0 28, sarth3d MT build
    15% frost pres
    15% will of the necro
    4% spellshattering
    2% meta gem
    3% magic suprrsion
    3% blessing of sant

    depending on gear and raid dps you can solo the death breaths
    no spell deflection? why not remove blood aura/hysteria for even more spell dmg avoidance?

  4. #4

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Well what are you tanking? Sarth, the drakes or the adds. If it's just sarth then a normal build. If it's the adds then you need howling blast or unholy blight IMO just for good AoEing and keeping them off of everybody. If it's the drakes then I would go with you're spec its not bad. Tanking the drakes is not really hard, just take off 3 from Death Rune Mastery and put it in somewhere else and spam death strike instead of obliterate.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    There isint just 1 build, there's different ones and their all good.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwolf&n=T%C3%ACck

  5. #5

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    You can look at my armory, this is my standard tank build for MTing everything including 3drakes. I only need 1 cooldown help to survive through. I think Unholy has more oh shit buttons. Vampiric Blood will not let me survive a breath with 36k hp unbuffed, 46k raid buffed, then down to 34k during the encounter.

  6. #6

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by failoth
    no spell deflection? why not remove blood aura/hysteria for even more spell dmg avoidance?
    spell deflection is a proc that cannot be relied on to save you

    blood aura assumes no other blood dk, and is raid utility
    same with hysteria, put it on a dps if they move close
    Val'anyr Completed: July 9
    Mimiron's Head
    Comablack @ magtheridon

  7. #7

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by comablack
    spell deflection is a proc that cannot be relied on to save you

    blood aura assumes no other blood dk, and is raid utility
    same with hysteria, put it on a dps if they move close
    Sure you can't rely on it but still why pass on mitigation cause when it does proc it's very useful. Skipping on mitigation talents as a tank is a bad idea imo, especially since as a tank raid utility is behind maximum survivability.

    clicky for armory

  8. #8

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    There was a bug that caused Spell Deflection to interfere with AMS/AMZ where they wouldn't absorb any damage at all. If that bug is still there, I recommend something like the first spec.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    If it has been fixed, then by all means I'd rather this spec

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    they just switch 3 points out of butchery/rune tap and into spell deflection

    Honestly, Bone Shield really doesn't cut it for a CD anymore. 20% is not going to save you. I use someone in the raid to blow a CD with me. It's better to be safe than try to solo mitigate with Bone Shield. AMS is wrecksauce with 100% reduction. AMZ works....that's it. IBF should carry you through 2 breaths. Other than that you should only have to be using the cooldowns for about a minute and a half so those 4 should cover it.

  9. #9

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    "I only need 1 cooldown help to survive through. I think Unholy has more oh shit buttons. Vampiric Blood will not let me survive a breath with 36k hp unbuffed, 46k raid buffed, then down to 34k during the encounter."

    Uhh if you have vampiric blood i assume that means you took will of the necropolis. With will of the necropolis and if you truly have 36k unbuffed, you need ZERO cooldowns going to live through 3drake sarth breaths. I know, because i do it...

    While vampiric blood is going, i laugh at the flame breaths...i can survive breath +2x melee with ease and with 30% healing taken i get filled back up with ease.

    With anti magic shell going the breath is laughable.

    With ibf going, in no danger of dying.

    No cooldowns i can take a breath + melee, but not 2x melee...so i usually just rune tap if i find myself in this situation, rune tap is enough self healing to let me take an additional non avoided hit without dying.

  10. #10

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Emcee
    "I only need 1 cooldown help to survive through. I think Unholy has more oh shit buttons. Vampiric Blood will not let me survive a breath with 36k hp unbuffed, 46k raid buffed, then down to 34k during the encounter."

    Uhh if you have vampiric blood i assume that means you took will of the necropolis. With will of the necropolis and if you truly have 36k unbuffed, you need ZERO cooldowns going to live through 3drake sarth breaths. I know, because i do it...

    While vampiric blood is going, i laugh at the flame breaths...i can survive breath +2x melee with ease and with 30% healing taken i get filled back up with ease.

    With anti magic shell going the breath is laughable.

    With ibf going, in no danger of dying.

    No cooldowns i can take a breath + melee, but not 2x melee...so i usually just rune tap if i find myself in this situation, rune tap is enough self healing to let me take an additional non avoided hit without dying.

    .... how?

    At top end those breaths hit for 74k

    Even if all the -damage effects were additive

    15 (pres) + 15 (wotn) + 3 (bos) + 4 (runeforge) + 2 (meta) + 3 (magic supression) = 42%

    74,000 x .58 = 43k roughly...... with vesperon's aura, you cannot have that much HP.... so how do you claim you can survive a top end breath and "laugh it off"?

  11. #11

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    i think emcee is talking rubbish, there is no way you can survive a breath in sarth 3d without cooldowns of some form.


    the problem i found whilst doing it tonight was that neither bone shield or vampiric blood alone were enough to let me survive a breath during the peak of it, i had to rely a lot on other classes cooldowns to help me survive. IBF and AMS were the only things i could use myself to guarantee safety.

    with the above in mind, im wondering if frost would have some benefits after all. if neither bone shield or vampiric can save me, then im not really in need of them. with frost, you can gain an additional 150 fire resistance (acclimation) and an extra 6 seconds on IBF, which might mean it lasting for 1 extra breath compared to normal.


    i eventually ended up with the spec suggested by the 2nd reply - the blood/unholy hybrid spec with WotN and 3/5 magic suppression - ending up with a total of 39% passive magic reduction on breaths (15 frost presence 15 wotn, 2% meta, 4% rune, 3% magic suppression), but vampiric blood was STILL not enough to guarantee safety by itself. i run at 35k life unbuffed, with VB up and the debuff i ended up with 36k and got 1-shotted easily.



  12. #12

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by comablack
    spell deflection is a proc that cannot be relied on to save you

    blood aura assumes no other blood dk, and is raid utility
    by that logic, you shouldn't take any parry or dodge because there is only a chance you will parry/dodge to save yourself.

  13. #13

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by failoth
    by that logic, you shouldn't take any parry or dodge because there is only a chance you will parry/dodge to save yourself.
    Thats possibly the dumbest thing anyone has ever said ....ever

    Parry/dodge is a way of avoiding damage that would not otherwise kill you, but would lessen the strain on the healers and make you easier to keep alive

    Taking spell deflection isnt a bad idea, the problem is you cannot RELY on it to save you in this situation. If it procs, thats great you just shaved off some damage.. if it DOESNT proc, then if you didnt have another cooldown running you're dead

  14. #14

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    The reason spell deflection isn't used, is because when you are tanking Sarth himself, you need RELIABLE spell mitigation. You can't rely on a 35% chance to survive it.

    In a blood build, your points are very tight. It's just more worthwhile to invest them elsewhere on something you can rely on.



    I'm able to survive the breath with twilight torment with Vamp. Blood going, but I wont go so far as to say I'm unstoppable or that its no big deal. I survive with maybe 5% of my health, which can certainly be livable its not really safe. I'm at 42.1k raid buffed HP.

    Blood is still number one for Sarth tanking imo. Will of the Necropolis means every single breath coming in is reduced 15%, you just cant beat that.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jcEMVh0IcbopuAZ0xZcx0I

  15. #15

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    just wondering what your unbuffed hp is in with sarth3d gear on
    Val'anyr Completed: July 9
    Mimiron's Head
    Comablack @ magtheridon

  16. #16

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by comablack
    just wondering what your unbuffed hp is in with sarth3d gear on
    havent tanked him yet, gonna attempt next reset.
    unbuffed i got 34.7k hp

  17. #17

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by neonanaski

    I'm able to survive the breath with twilight torment with Vamp. Blood going, but I wont go so far as to say I'm unstoppable or that its no big deal. I survive with maybe 5% of my health, which can certainly be livable its not really safe. I'm at 42.1k raid buffed HP.

    What all debuffs are present that you're able to survive a breath from sarth without a cooldown?

    You say you can survive with twilight torment up, but is SHADRON still up? Twilight torment is the last buff thats applied and by stating your post in such a way, it almost sounds like you're claiming you can survive a fully debuffed breath attack from sarth w/o using your cooldowns as long as you have vamp blood up.... which honestly, its possible BUT ONLY IF it is the lowest possible damage his breaths can do with all those buffs up (around 60k).. if it hits in the mid range of around 68k, or breaks to the top end up of 74k, you're toast regardless...

  18. #18

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    well usually i tank him with this spec
    http://www.wow-europe.com/de/info/ba...30000000000000

    is far the best u can go

    survivability + raidsupport ( u can also choose 10%ap if u want )
    aggro shouldnt be the problem in this fight. cast gargoyle on the 1st adddrake and give hysteria one of the phys dps-er

    glyphs are: IT+ VB + runeheal


    + a disc priesthealer on mt is best! pw:s + ps on first breath when 3.drake has landed


    (dont forget ur aotd + firepotions )

    sry 4 my bad english lol

  19. #19

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    I sit at about 31k health unbuffed. I have been MT'n 25/10 3d sarth for awhile now. This is my spec. I have had no issue's with it.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhg0zZfghh0bogeVocoux

    With this spec i dont need to use any CD's till the 3rd drake lands. Once he lands i immidiatly use Lichborne and re apply boneshield. His fire breath can easly be countered with one of the following: IBF, AMS, or AMZ. Once those three are gone i call out for Pain suppression and guardian spirit to counter the next two breaths. By that time if i still need ill have IBF and AMS up again for the next breaths. By this time the drakes should be dead and all you need to do to stay alive from there on out is Bone shield, IBF and AMS, and use AMZ again if you need.

    Good luck with tanking sarth!

    Edit: Also with this spec I dont have to worry about giving up any dodge, parry, hit, or expertise for stam.

  20. #20

    Re: Sartharion 3D Tanking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by kekoa
    I sit at about 31k health unbuffed. I have been MT'n 25/10 3d sarth for awhile now. This is my spec. I have had no issue's with it.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhg0zZfghh0bogeVocoux

    With this spec i dont need to use any CD's till the 3rd drake lands. Once he lands i immidiatly use Lichborne and re apply boneshield. His fire breath can easly be countered with one of the following: IBF, AMS, or AMZ. Once those three are gone i call out for Pain suppression and guardian spirit to counter the next two breaths. By that time if i still need ill have IBF and AMS up again for the next breaths. By this time the drakes should be dead and all you need to do to stay alive from there on out is Bone shield, IBF and AMS, and use AMZ again if you need.

    Good luck with tanking sarth!

    Edit: Also with this spec I dont have to worry about giving up any dodge, parry, hit, or expertise for stam.
    Don't forget everyone, you can also use army of the dead during a breath as well, its 6 seconds of reduced dmg based on parry+dodge....just throwin it out there :P

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