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  1. #61
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonberry
    This is a misunderstanding! The actual blue post said the effect was changed to replenish, similar to shadow priests. It didn't mean you got a replenishment effect like shadow priests which buffs raid. I hope this clears it up
    Replenishment is Replenishment, and always been like that.

    Hunting Party, Judgement of the Wise, and the Vampiric Touch is so far the only 3 talents that can trigger Replenishment.

    Now futher two classes is given the option to trigger it with changed/new talents. (Soul Leech, and the replacement for Improved Water Element.)

  2. #62

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Replenishment is Replenishment, and always been like that.

    Hunting Party, Judgement of the Wise, and the Vampiric Touch is so far the only 3 talents that can trigger Replenishment.

    Now futher two classes is given the option to trigger it with changed/new talents. (Soul Leech, and the replacement for Improved Water Element.)
    Ah, I stand corrected. When I read the blue post last week, I didn't feel it was made clear if this effect would replenish you or your raid as well and chose to believe the former.
    The spell details for water elemental is quite clear in this regard, but the one for soul leech is not.

    Increases the duration of your Summon Water Elemental spell by 15 sec and your Water Elemental restores mana to all party or raid members within 100 yds an amount equal to 0.6% of their total mana every 5 secs.
    Your Soul Leech effect also restores mana to you and your summoned demon equal to 2% of maximum mana.
    Can anyone confirm if Soul Leech actually is to the raid as well? (Without changing the topic)

  3. #63
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    That's the old descriptions you're looking at. Ie. as it is now, ingame.

    What will happend is that the Improved Water Element talent will be completely scrapped for a new talent.

    And Soul Leech will be changed to something in the likes of

    Your Soul Leech effect also causes up to 10 party or raid members to gain 0.25% of their maximum mana per second.

  4. #64

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonberry
    This is a misunderstanding! The actual blue post said the effect was changed to replenish, similar to shadow priests. It didn't mean you got a replenishment effect like shadow priests which buffs raid. I hope this clears it up
    Erm, of course they are going to make Warlocks and Mages who spec into it provide the same Replenishment buff as Shadow Priests.

    For mages to provide this buff, they will have to spec into their weakest PVE tree and will do a lot less damage, it is not like they are simply adding Replenishment to the current top DPS specs.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  5. #65

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by morriso
    Is there some kind of bug thats causing SPs to out DPS pure DPS classes on pure nuke 'em fights or are SPs a little OP atm?

    I am in a guild that does 25man raiding, and we are all pretty much geared to the max now and its quite clear that SPs can out DPS warlocks, hunters, rogues and mages in a pure nuke (1 boss, no adds) environment at high end gear level (well, as high end as we can get atm).
    Your warlocks hunters rogues and mages are bad. The only fights that SPs compete are those with multiple targets or a lot of movement so DOT damage is weight. If your shadow priest is winning patchwerk your raid is terrible.

  6. #66

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonberry

    Can anyone confirm if Soul Leech actually is to the raid as well? (Without changing the topic)
    No, nobody can confirm that without changing the topic. You are reaching at this point.

    They're giving the two underplayed specs the same replenishment that the other classes have. destro and frost. what's arguable is if frost will not be more popular / higher dps after the arcane nerf. I don't think replenishment will take warlocks out of dominating meters with affliction.

  7. #67

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by frott
    Your warlocks hunters rogues and mages are bad. The only fights that SPs compete are those with multiple targets or a lot of movement so DOT damage is weight. If your shadow priest is winning patchwerk your raid is terrible.
    On this point, I would like to remind everyone to make friends with your DK and get him to spread Devouring Plague to everyone for you with Pestilence, if you are not already ^^
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  8. #68

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    I do 4,3k DPS on patch, and im 13th on the meters so... But our group is heavily boosted for melee tho... No mages etc for extra crit.

  9. #69

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    So does this mean that Shadow Priests are supposed to be back like they were in BC? Low dps? So if you follow the same rule of 'Utility Class' are there any true classes that can do a certain job right? There is no pure healing class, so therefore no one can heal perfect, according to your standards, right?
    This arrogant opinion is the same idea that Priests should always be healers, Warriors should always be tanks. This opinion is flawed, immensely. Anyone can be on the top of the dps charts, anyone. Any class that bitches that they are not on top doesn't have their spec or class correct. I think that Morriso is just some random Mage who is complaining that he is not #1 on dps, making the excuse that he should be top dps because of the fact that he can't heal or tank.
    TL;RD
    You should play the class because of the fact you love it, not because you have the "I win" button on hand.

  10. #70
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Except "low dps" today is in the line of 5000 dps, where "high dps" is in the line of 6500.

    Add Ulduar scaling (we'll scale as well ofcource).

  11. #71

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    If your mages, warlocks, fury warriors and DKs are regularly outdamaged by shadowpriests, there is one simple conclusion to make:

    THEY CAN'T PLAY THEIR CLASSES WHILE THE SHADOWPRIESTS DO.
    I agree, for some reason i seem to end up in top 3 eaven due to lack of gear compared to others. But then again i see them 14-year-old rogues messing up with their rotations while mine is a 98% flawless. On another part i seem to end up top 3 as a midgeared rogue so obviously it has to do somewhat with the other's dps rotations not beeing followed which might be a bit easier with 5-6 spells compared to 5-6 melee ones(ehrrm?)

    I dont have a lot of exp on playing pure caster dps classes, but i guess arcane mages has a bit more work on getting their rotations with the varation of blasts, missiles and so on compared to a frost mage(which is due to change with the PvE shatter-comboes).

    But in the end us Priest have often lived with using the best spell at each gcd no matter what spec u play both in PvE and PvP. I place my vote on Priests for the Skillchamps of the WoW.

    EDIT: And yes if u look at the WWS SP's is a excelent source of aoe if played right but it has the 2 req's of the pack beeing big enough(Spiders yay!) and the pack beeing placed properly. For trashclearing with too small packs (like 4 in sarth) its rubbish when i could do more dps just single targeting. With was not the case in BC where i could dot the pack up for a bigger benefit in both manarep(which is why i was there) and dmg, which lead to the case that i climbed the metres. On the other side back then my manapool was certainly a lot more limited and a costly mistake with and error in my rotation could cost me up about a 7th of my mana. At some point in BC i had enough +dmg to almost fill my rotation costs with the return from VT, Now i have to sac some +dmg for mana too keep my rotations filled with an ocasional Disp and Shadowfiend. Old times... old times...

    Alight bk to the issue at hand, shadow's bring more to the raid than dmg misery is a great gift for the entire raid to enjoy and Blizzard giving us Unholy Dk's is just the way to pay us bk =).

    EDIT2: That potency thingy that was metintioned to come in a patch or few(or did they remove it from blizz's plan?) is for certain an interesting thingy now that there is replenishment coming up for more classes.

  12. #72

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    IMO sp is currently suffering from bad gear scaling. I noticed the improvement in dps when upgrading items with some naxx 10 stuff, our dps dont improve as much as other class with similar upgrades. Im currently geared in mostly naxx10 stuff/os25 stuff and it seems that i'm nowhere near topping dps in 25 man raid consisting of similarly geared raiders( about 3200 dps on single bosses) But from wws report and various threads, i concluded that SP will get better as we get high end gear. Imo, with 500 latency i wont see 5k dps ever. My rogue still wear a couple of blues can do as much dps.

  13. #73

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    No



  14. #74
    Xanity
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    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    If a Shadow Priest in decent gear, with a decent player who knows how to play a Shadow Priest properly, then there is no reason that a Shadow Priest cannot be top of the damage metres.
    They are not the unique mana battery anymore remember, and they are nothing more than a DPS class(spec) just like any other class(spec) in the game. Not overpowered.

  15. #75

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    last night's 25 man maly/sarth clear

    maly I ended up 5th. suppose it's a little misleading due to phase 3, but I think I was in the top 3 at the start of phase 3.

    sarth I topped the metre. the other SP was 5th I believe and we were the only ones 4k+ dps. before you say I was an aoe whore seer only made up 15% of my total damage.

    We're not OP at all. we're just better suited than others on some fights. the tables turn frequently throughout the other boss fights.

  16. #76

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Old thread is old but I'll still reply.

    The mindset that a shadow priest had to be excellent in BC to get in a progressed raiding guild to actually raid is pretty accurate. Considering our dps was sub par in BC, we had to know the absolute ins and outs of our class, then wrath hits and we can actually dps. The playstyle is basically the same (now we mindsear instead of mass dot on trash) and we were good at it then, we're good at it now. Ret can use a different judgement when there is a spriest in the raid, and boomkins don't have to faerie fire. I don't see how people can say we're not wanted in a raid, my guild (everythings been dead since december) always has one or two shadow priests in the raid. Obviously mind sear is an amazing aoe, we bring 3% hit, replenishment, and can heal ourselves through alot of damage with Imp VE. VE isn't what it used to be, but our dps isn't what it used to be. I remember after 3.0 hit we went and killed Gorefiend and I outhealed our healers by 3x. (lol 2k+ dps with 30% heal to raid). 3% of our damage is next to nothing on the 10 lowest hp in raid. I use it, though, to heal myself.

    People arguing that spriests are top 3 on patch, you need to look at your other dps. I'm not saying this because I think spriests are gimp on single target dps because I easily pull over 5k on patch, but this tends to land me anywhere but top 3. Locks, mages, dk's, dps warrs, even enh/ele shamans all put out great dps. We all know some nights RNG just isn't on our side but still.. Shadow priests are not OP. We are a hybrid class that bring unique utility. Who else brings 3% hit, top aoe, disease cleanse, dispel, stam, fear ward, multiple cc and if shit hits the fan, good heals? (3d 10 is one of the fights were we really can shine, our mana is not an issue so I pop shadowform a couple times to spot heal raid members due to twilight torment, heal acolyte tank, etc). Sure you can name classes that bring a handful of those but nobody brings all of them. They're all useful in specific raids (maybe not all of them now, but we haven't even touched the content that will be released).

    I'm confident I will always have a raid spot as a raiding shadow priest in a top guild.

  17. #77

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    I'd just like to point out that even tho my talent spec is 14/0/57, I do not consider myself a hybrid. If I went pure shadow, I wouldn't put out the dps I do now. IMO, There are 18 points in the Shadow tree that aren't needed for Raiding. (Used for PvP) As a priest, the only Talent Spec I could see someone being called a "Hybrid" is 31/27/13 (Lolsmite). If blizzard wants to get rid of Hybrid classes or atleast doesn't want Hybrid classes doing more dps then pure, they should edit our trees. Oh and one more thing...Our Shadow Tree only holds 70 Talents points...so we couldn't be 100% shadow even if we wanted to

  18. #78

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    There exists one inherent problem - as the game progresses, encounters will (hopefully) become harder. If, by any chance, an instance similar to SWP comes once more where there is no room for mistakes and where high DPS output is mandatory - raid leaders will have to think twice before bringing a SP.

    In theory, SP is still the lowest dealing single target damage class, period. The reason why SPs excel these days is because the playstyle is similar to TBC, while other classes have changed mechanics or simply - bad uninformed players behind the screen. There's plethora of awful players out there, there are so bad dks that can be outdpsed by a SP for 2x simply because they suck. People tend to compare SPs to awful players, thus getting the wrong conclusion out of it.

    SP is miles from being overpowered in any way. It's the content that doesn't require much effort or perfect group / raid setup to down the encounter. If the trend continues, then the "bring the player not the class" thingy will still apply.

  19. #79

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tmasterg
    Oh and one more thing...Our Shadow Tree only holds 70 Talents points...so we couldn't be 100% shadow even if we wanted to
    Heh yeah thats absolutely true... btw i read some blue post to reply to someone wanting meditation to be baseline.

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/27/1499...editation.html
    -- Above all, ask yourself what else you would spend those points on. We don't want to see just a ton of 0 / 0 / 71 specs. We haven't really given Holy or Shadow much reason to sub-spec into each other. Maybe sub-specing into Disc isn't so bad if there is something really juicy there for you.
    I guess they fixed that problem without em eaven knowing it(yes i know he was just making an example)

    and still NO, priest aint OP.

  20. #80
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niveypew
    Here's the top US Horde guild on patchwerk. - http://wowwebstats.com/z63hffkasapom?s=355878-381266

    Shadow is alot better then it used to be but it's still not anywhere close to the pure dps classes when properly geared & played.

    What you should have listed is a breakdown of players not just one fight and one guild.

    http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/pri/6/0/3

    DPS Priests rating world wide you will see they are definitely not as far down as you make them sound, The problem is just like any DPS fight unless everyone is giving 100% in all ways you will never have a perfect comparison. I wouldn't call them OP but they are way higher then they were in BC other then the early days when tailoring gear was better then raiding gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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