Maximum stamina death knight tank

[Graliand]

Our guild got Sartharion 2D 25-man and we are working on 3D. Juggling all our options, we have decided to go with a DK tank, specced into Magic Suppression in the Unholy tree.

I wanted to ask about the maximum HP other DK tanks have been able to achieve pre-buffs and post-buffs to create some kind of an idea of how much HP a DK can obtain.

I have 2 - 3 different builds for the DK for that particular fight. However, any suggestions on potential builds is also welcome

[Mawaru]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...fiend&n=Chiizu -- That's my guild's Sartharion tank on 3 drake. He has something like 43k HP buffed, and I think that's the spec he uses to tank with as well.

[Graliand]

Thanks a lot mate... we were looking for a 44Kish DK tank with our calculations... thanks a lot

[AetherMcLoud]

For Sarth3D I'd rather go with a blood than unholy tank. For the +15% health for 30 seconds every minute, plus 30% chance to take less damage from magic equal to your parry chance.

Better than unholy for that specific enounter I'd say.

[Mawaru]

For Sarth3D I'd rather go with a blood than unholy tank. For the +15% health for 30 seconds every minute, plus 30% chance to take less damage from magic equal to your parry chance.

Better than unholy for that specific enounter I'd say.

Are you a Twilight Vanquisher? And if so, do you know how the 3 drake encounter works?

The reason he specs so deep into unholy is for Bone Shield and Anti-Magic Zone, because he needs a 100% sure way to mitigate breath damage, since that's really the only danger of the encounter aside from bringing retards to it that can't dodge walls or voids. We have one Hand of Sacrifice and one Guardian Spirit ready for when he calls that he needs them, as well, which is typically when he runs out of self cooldowns. He still has Spell Deflection in blood tree anyway, and +15% HP for 30s every minute doesn't really matter when you start the encounter with -25% HP from the Power of Vesperon debuff.

[Telaso]

Them flame breathes hit hard.

I MT Sarth 3D, but as a druid stacking stamina, (around 55k pre debuff), and the problem from dieing comes after the Flame Breathe with the melee swings when my healers are moving to avoid fire walls.

So just remember that, if the FB doesn't one shot you, the melee swings will kill you soon afterwards.

[farmacy]

Are you a Twilight Vanquisher? And if so, do you know how the 3 drake encounter works?

The reason he specs so deep into unholy is for Bone Shield and Anti-Magic Zone, because he needs a 100% sure way to mitigate breath damage, since that's really the only danger of the encounter aside from bringing retards to it that can't dodge walls or voids. We have one Hand of Sacrifice and one Guardian Spirit ready for when he calls that he needs them, as well, which is typically when he runs out of self cooldowns. He still has Spell Deflection in blood tree anyway, and +15% HP for 30s every minute doesn't really matter when you start the encounter with -25% HP from the Power of Vesperon debuff.

I think bloods the way to go... we aren't "of the twilight" in my guild, and have struggled on the encounter using an Unholy tank.

We just switched her to Blood, and that combined with a disc priest, should allow us to have a little better luck.

15% health 50% of the time is huge, as is the damage reduction talent. Bone shield has to be properly managed to be effective... it's all about the tank properly managing cooldowns.

Blood makes it easier, from everything I've seen and read.

[piken]

I think bloods the way to go... we aren't "of the twilight" in my guild, and have struggled on the encounter using an Unholy tank.

We just switched her to Blood, and that combined with a disc priest, should allow us to have a little better luck.

15% health 50% of the time is huge, as is the damage reduction talent. Bone shield has to be properly managed to be effective... it's all about the tank properly managing cooldowns.

Blood makes it easier, from everything I've seen and read.

You sir are wrong on this.

The breaths are the biggest problem with the fight when Shard and Vesp are down. When they are both down, the breaths before mitigation hit for 74.5k dmg.

Deep unholy has a set 20% reduction from bone armor, 5% from magic suppression, 4% from weapon enchant, and up to 30% from magic deflection in blood.

That is with out looking at magic deflection a 29% reduction in spell dmg when a breath hits.

so 74.5k * .71 = 52.895k dmg.

If the tank has fully raid buffed before debuffs say 50k hp and he hits VB he now has 57.5k hp for 30 sec every min but he is still taking 60.792k hits from the breath due to limited less mitigation and WoTN. So for a full blood to tank 3d in 25 man you would need a full rotation from the holy priests, disc priests, and pallies to keep him alive.

Not to mention that while the hits are coming that hard there is a 25% hp debuff taking him to 37.5k hp or 43.1k with VB up.

While if he was deep unholy in the normal 3d spec he would be able to absorb 100% of the breath every 45 sec. Then use IBF to eat another large chunk in between, only needed support from the healers when the rotation of breaths have all of his on CD. But wait, there is more. He will also have AMZ to mitigate 20k+ in between too.

In order to do it as blood you need a very solid healer rotation and at least 55-65k hp full buffed.

[Avadon]

My DK tank is just under 34k unbuffed, which is just over 42k buffed. My DK however is frost, and has no +stamina % talents, so unholy could have more. Also worth noting that to maximize stamina, the tank should have professions to help, ei mining, JC, BS, LW, enchanting.

As for the magic mitigation from the previous poster, yes yes yes to all, but don't forget also the passive 15% magic reduction just for being in frost presence. Unholy tanks are amazing for Sarth MTing, 15% frost presence +5% suppresion for a passive 20%.. +AMS to nullify one every 45s completely, plus IBF, BS, and AMZ for reliable mitigation. Note: AMZ should absorb over 18k damage.

[Peliasravencrest]

I dont know if this is any use to anybody but here goes.

As a DK tank for my guild, we succeeded at doing the 3D sarth somewhat easily with frost/unholy spec.

My rotation was the following: On each breath, starting with the first breath after the shield comes up after both the first dragons has landed.

[1. Anti magic shell] -> [2. Anti magic zone] -> [3. Bone shield + Icebound fortitude] -> [4. Priest's wings] -> [5. Anti magic shell] -> (At this point it comes down to luck whether the breaths was a bit slow or not) -> [6a. Either Bone shield + Icebound fortitude] or another [6b. priest's wings or hand of sacrifice].

This was somewhat easily done with me having 37k fully buffed.

[Zao]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=041116050401


That's the specc I'm using for S3D. It's a Sarth ONLY specc, since I got Major threat issues when tanking stuff in Naxx. But its mitigation/avoidance is unbeaten.

The CD rotation is:

AMS->BS+IBF(+Lichborn)->if BS is still up: BS+AMZ (else Pain suppression/Guardianspirit/etc)->AMS->external CD ->External CD->AMS->BS+IBF


It's all dependant on the frequency of the FBs but I didn't die in a long time to FB. Only thing that prevents us killing him are some Major DPS issues in our guild.

[KinU69]

If you have a druid tank with 55k hp, put some FR resist gear till you get to 200 FR, this will bring your hp to arround 35khp debuffed/buffed and flame breath will do no more than 20k, rarely 25k and maybe 30k ... considering barkskin, 12% dmg base reduction. It works and is more manageble. However the dmg that raid takes is another thingy

[Zao]

No.

Flame Breath hits for up to 70k without ANY mitigation.

As soon as Twilight Torment is up you CAN and WILL be hit for 30k+

Even a Druid needs cds for this time span (it IS possible to survive these without cds, but the risk of dying from a FB+Melee combo is still to high.)

So even though a druid IS the better choice for Maintanking S3D a properly geared/specced/skilled dk can do the job just as good.

But I would not recommend a Prot Warrior/Paladin for MTing (even though I heard it is possible)

[SbEguy]

I´ve tanked sarth quite successfully as a blood/unholy spec with veteran of the third war, magic suppression and AMZ as well as boneshield. about 42k hp buffed and 31k hp buffed during the encounter. the spec is purely for maximum hp and magic reduction, completely ignoring threat generation when possible. do NOT spec into spell deflection, as it is currently bugged in the way that when it procs while you have AMS or AMZ up, it overrides them and you take more damage than you should. also, one additional tip i haven´t seen mentioned is using the +32 sta 2% magic reduction metagem, bringing the passive mitigation to 26% (15% frost presence, 5% magic suppression, 4% rune, 2% metagem)

during the biggest breaths, i use bone shield and IBF in conjunction with a Blessing of Sacrifice rotation from paladins that i call out when i need it. I keep AMS for emergencies in case the paladin cant make it in time, or in case vesperon lives longer than anticipated/breaths come faster than usual.

[Rivendare-EU]

Are you a Twilight Vanquisher? And if so, do you know how the 3 drake encounter works?

And you, are you a Twlight Vanquisher ? I am http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...us&n=Rivendare . Tanked sarth 3 drakes in 25-man as 50/5/16 and it worked pretty well.

You sir are wrong on this.

The breaths are the biggest problem with the fight when Shard and Vesp are down. When they are both down, the breaths before mitigation hit for 74.5k dmg.

Deep unholy has a set 20% reduction from bone armor, 5% from magic suppression, 4% from weapon enchant, and up to 30% from magic deflection in blood.

That is with out looking at magic deflection a 29% reduction in spell dmg when a breath hits.

so 74.5k * .71 = 52.895k dmg.

If the tank has fully raid buffed before debuffs say 50k hp and he hits VB he now has 57.5k hp for 30 sec every min but he is still taking 60.792k hits from the breath due to limited less mitigation and WoTN. So for a full blood to tank 3d in 25 man you would need a full rotation from the holy priests, disc priests, and pallies to keep him alive.

Not to mention that while the hits are coming that hard there is a 25% hp debuff taking him to 37.5k hp or 43.1k with VB up.

While if he was deep unholy in the normal 3d spec he would be able to absorb 100% of the breath every 45 sec. Then use IBF to eat another large chunk in between, only needed support from the healers when the rotation of breaths have all of his on CD. But wait, there is more. He will also have AMZ to mitigate 20k+ in between too.

In order to do it as blood you need a very solid healer rotation and at least 55-65k hp full buffed.

You know what ? When Vesperon's portal's add is up a simple bone shield won't save you. Moreover, any kind of cd from another class is way enough to mitigate the breaths to a survivable level.

Bone shield has 6 charges, vampiric blood lasts 30 sec and is way enough coupled with will of the necropolis to survive breaths when Shadron's portal's add is up, which is way more comfortable than using your bone shield and anxiously watching the amount of charges you have left. I can usually last the whole phase between Shadron's and Vesperon's landing with vampiric blood...

The rotation I use is vampiric blood once sarth breaths while shadron's add is up (no point in using any cd before that), then IBF, AMS, ask for 1 or 2 cd's (VB as soon as it's up, always help the healers to maintain you alive - you can ask for 1-2 more cd if sarth breathed a lot and had to use IBF and such too early and the ability is still on cooldown-), then IBF and AMS again, if your raid hasn't kill Shadron by that time, you are certainly screwed, or you can keep asking for more cd's(it's still manageablr if Shadron is around 15-10% at that time), don't forget AotD if you are a cd short (the ghouls don't taunt mobs marked as "Boss").

So before saying people are wrong and assuming stuff, try things and think a little.

P.S. :

do NOT spec into spell deflection, as it is currently bugged in the way that when it procs while you have AMS or AMZ up, it overrides them and you take more damage than you should.

The bug used to be AMS and AMZ not absorbing anything at all wether spell deflection proc'd or not, but it has been fixed since 3.0.8 and works awesomely well on sartharion. It sometimes saves my ass when I forget to call for a cd.

[topfer]

Are you a Twilight Vanquisher? And if so, do you know how the 3 drake encounter works?

The reason he specs so deep into unholy is for Bone Shield and Anti-Magic Zone, because he needs a 100% sure way to mitigate breath damage, since that's really the only danger of the encounter aside from bringing retards to it that can't dodge walls or voids. We have one Hand of Sacrifice and one Guardian Spirit ready for when he calls that he needs them, as well, which is typically when he runs out of self cooldowns. He still has Spell Deflection in blood tree anyway, and +15% HP for 30s every minute doesn't really matter when you start the encounter with -25% HP from the Power of Vesperon debuff.

Will of the necropolis is a better mitigation than any of the unholy talents. The breaths hit so hard and frequently drop you under 35%. I spec blood unholy , with 3 points into magic suppression. I sit at 46k hp raid buffed w/o vampiric blood. with vampiric blood, I spike 52k. It turns out to be about 32k after the debuff before vamp blood.

I've seen will of the necropolis save me from so many breaths its not even funny. Yes I have done the encounter several times. The majority of the breaths you need to worry about iwll drop you under 35%, and that makes it a great deal better than bone shield because bone shield gets 1) eaten by melee swings (which come increasingly faster because of his buf), and 2) has a long cooldown. I should also add that if a hit drops you below 1 point, from above 35%, will of the necropolis will save you by keeping your hp at 1 instead of gibbing you. It's better than dying.

It's by far the best talent for it. The 30 second 8k heal is pretty damned nice too, plus the ease of healing (not to mention glyphed its pretty nice). AMZ is terrible for it because of the really long cooldown (and it only saves you from about half a big breath). I usually go 43 in blood the rest in unholy. You're there to soak damage, nothing else.

I've done the encounter as unholy, frost , and now this 43 blood spec, and i *never* die from spike damage now. Healing me / keeping me alive is by far the easiest part of the fight now.

[Exhaust]

I see a lot of ranting going on here.

Just wanted to throw this in for what it's worth, don't feel like searching 20 walls of text to see if this has been mentioned.
This is what I've been using.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...30000000000000

[ToXinE]

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...50041003111100

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...r=Eitrigg&n=Go

Tanking Sartha3D is a job for DK not druids. Druid may have a lot more HP but they don't have the mitigation DK have.

A well stuffed DK can have non stop Bone Shield (if you have the glyph) so with a quick math :

Frost presence : -15%
rune : -4%
Meta gem : -2%
AMS (unholy talent) : -5%
total passive magic reduction = 26%.
Added to this, bone shield (should be up non stop with a DK parrying and dodging > 20%): -20%

Total : 46% magic dmgs reduction.


On a 50K sartha breath : 23K reduction

A DK@40K HP buffed and -25% stam means 30Kpv in fight.

Sartha breath will hit at 27K. It means the DK can tank it without using any CD/skills.
a 50K HP drood can't handle it.
As a comparaison, a drood should have 23K more HP to be at least as effective as the DK (40K + 23K = 63K HP). gl & hf !


On a 70K breath, it become so obvious it's funny : 32.2K reduction
a drood should have 32.2K more HP to be at least as effective as the DK (40K + 32.2K = 72.2K HP). gl & hf !