Current enhancement best in slots for all slots? (forgot which spec earlier)

[Wilde79]

I read it over at EJ.

I read Blue state that they will no longer allocate item budget on the armor's value (physical mitigation). This only leaves stats to take up item budget. You already know how blizzard weighs different stats, from gems. Then I proved it here with the 2 lists you posted.

If you don't want to go over to EJ and read it yourself and if you don't want to evaluate same ilvl gear yourself, that's on you.

Would have been lovely should you have actually posted the EJ thread instead of just vaguely pointing there

I do admit I had missed the post on armor value not taking item budget, and yes, I know how blizzard weights stats from the gems but that still doesn't have anything to do with your assumption that the more you stack one stat the higher it's cost on the item budget is.

And you cannot just compare 2 items of the same ilvl, as blizzard partially balances the items also depending on which boss they drop on so ilvl isn't the only measurement of an item's quality.

-- Wilde

[Deleted]

He is probably referring to the very long standing observation noted in http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_level#Ca...ing_Item_Level where the budget cost of a solo item stat is observed to be higher than the budget cost when split amongst more stats. Note this article hasn't been updated in a while so that might have changed with WotLK. It did hold true through all of Azeroth & BC though.

[monkeysnarf]

Would have been lovely should you have actually posted the EJ thread instead of just vaguely pointing there

I do admit I had missed the post on armor value not taking item budget, and yes, I know how blizzard weights stats from the gems but that still doesn't have anything to do with your assumption that the more you stack one stat the higher it's cost on the item budget is.

And you cannot just compare 2 items of the same ilvl, as blizzard partially balances the items also depending on which boss they drop on so ilvl isn't the only measurement of an item's quality.

-- Wilde

I never kept track of all the references to item budgets over at EJ. I have always been more interested in the actual values on real pieces of armor, than how Blizzard came up with them. Never did I imagine someone would use a small tangent, even throw-away, comment to try and derail the conversation to cover up their own flawed logic that leather > mail, after they had been proven wrong. So yeah that's my bad for not book marking every instance of general assumed logic over at EJ, when I never really cared about it in the first place.

I have yet to see 2 same ilvl items, for the same spec, drop from 2 different bosses, where both are not set pieces. As an example, I don't see 1 ilvl 213 mail enhance tier chest piece and 2 ilvl 213 mail enhance non-tier pieces. All I see is 1 ilvl 213 tier piece and 1 ilvl 213 non-tier piece. It is entirely possible that I have missed this. After all I'm not writing a book on item budgets. Still though, you cannot prove your assertion that Blizzard gives bonus item budget to certain pieces if they drop off of certain bosses. I will admit that I don't know the value of set-piece-bonus's item budget.

Plus, all of this doesn't matter anyway.

* You said leather > mail and posted a list so we can see for ourselves.
* I proved that when comparing apples to apples mail > leather.
* Barrar has stated that his spread sheet also shows mail > leather.

Stop! Quit drawing on tangents like int = spell crit, item budgets and other non-issues. In Wotlk you are wrong about leather. You were right in BC. You may be right again next xpac.

[raabnox]

* You said leather > mail and posted a list so we can see for ourselves.
* I proved that when comparing apples to apples mail > leather.
* Barrar has stated that his spread sheet also shows mail > leather.

Stop! Quit drawing on tangents like int = spell crit, item budgets and other non-issues. In Wotlk you are wrong about leather. You were right in BC. You may be right again next xpac.

-While in the majority of situations mail may be superior, there are numerous instances of a leather piece being the obvious upgrade after sim-ing and computing EPs. Try using the sample ep values into lootrank and see where things come out:
ap=1
crit=1.7
Expertise=3.2
Hit=2.5
Armor pen=1
Haste=1.7
Strength=1.1
Int=1.3
Spell power=.7

[emotep]

the mail vs. leather argument is pretty stupid. the item choices in the game currently are small enough that we can push aside all the hyperbole and get down to the one instance where this matters: frosted adroit handguards.

[Barawr]

I would hope that the ilvl226 [item=40541] trump most all leather/mail ilvl213 items or else Blizz isn't doing their job correctly. Yes, I would take these particular gloves over a mail counterpart simply because they provide more dps stats than all other options. For the same reasons, the [item=40564] (ilvl226 compared to all others) are one of the best resto pieces.

[monkeysnarf]

I would hope that the ilvl226 [item=40541] trump most all leather/mail ilvl213 items or else Blizz isn't doing their job correctly. Yes, I would take these particular gloves over a mail counterpart simply because they provide more dps stats than all other options. For the same reasons, the [item=40564] (ilvl226 compared to all others) are one of the best resto pieces.

Here's the thing. It's really a choice between Handguards & T7.5 helm or Blue Aspect helm & T7.5 Gloves.

The Handguards & T7.5 helm > Calculate Risk & T7.5 helm. (Of course ilvl 226 gloves & ilvl 213 helm > ilvl 213 gloves and helm.)

So now looking at the numbers, and considering the full kit, you're basically giving up haste for hit. I think it also depends on what your professions are. If you have no professions, going to Handguards means you don't need Grim Toll. If you didn't need Grim Toll anyway, that means you can regem to other stats.

The other problem is we don't know what Blizzard is going to do with Haste. Until we know, I think we should be safe. Need roll on Blue Aspect Helm just incase. Greed roll on Hanguards after your rogues have them, just incase.

[Wilde79]

Here's the thing. It's really a choice between Handguards & T7.5 helm or Blue Aspect helm & T7.5 Gloves.

The Handguards & T7.5 helm > Calculate Risk & T7.5 helm. (Of course ilvl 226 gloves & ilvl 213 helm > ilvl 213 gloves and helm.)

So now looking at the numbers, and considering the full kit, you're basically giving up haste for hit. I think it also depends on what your professions are. If you have no professions, going to Handguards means you don't need Grim Toll. If you didn't need Grim Toll anyway, that means you can regem to other stats.

The other problem is we don't know what Blizzard is going to do with Haste. Until we know, I think we should be safe. Need roll on Blue Aspect Helm just incase. Greed roll on Hanguards after your rogues have them, just incase.

Hit has always had more value than haste for Enh shamans. Haste for us carries value to only melee and MW charges as rest our abilities are instant, while both melee and spellcasting benefit from pure hit. And also if you can cap hit without having to resort to Grim Toll (which currently is looking at dimished value due to armor changes), you will be able to pick up either Greatness! or FotFF that are ranked the two best trinkets currently.

So I would suggest to need on the Handguards, there will be much less competition on the Helmet

-- Wilde

[Wilde79]

I never kept track of all the references to item budgets over at EJ. I have always been more interested in the actual values on real pieces of armor, than how Blizzard came up with them. Never did I imagine someone would use a small tangent, even throw-away, comment to try and derail the conversation to cover up their own flawed logic that leather > mail, after they had been proven wrong. So yeah that's my bad for not book marking every instance of general assumed logic over at EJ, when I never really cared about it in the first place.

I have yet to see 2 same ilvl items, for the same spec, drop from 2 different bosses, where both are not set pieces. As an example, I don't see 1 ilvl 213 mail enhance tier chest piece and 2 ilvl 213 mail enhance non-tier pieces. All I see is 1 ilvl 213 tier piece and 1 ilvl 213 non-tier piece. It is entirely possible that I have missed this. After all I'm not writing a book on item budgets. Still though, you cannot prove your assertion that Blizzard gives bonus item budget to certain pieces if they drop off of certain bosses. I will admit that I don't know the value of set-piece-bonus's item budget.

Plus, all of this doesn't matter anyway.

* You said leather > mail and posted a list so we can see for ourselves.
* I proved that when comparing apples to apples mail > leather.
* Barrar has stated that his spread sheet also shows mail > leather.

Stop! Quit drawing on tangents like int = spell crit, item budgets and other non-issues. In Wotlk you are wrong about leather. You were right in BC. You may be right again next xpac.

I didn't start with A) item budgets or B) int = spell crit, I just replied to people that brought those issues up. But I'll drop this for now since it relies on assumption on itembudgets that nobody has yet to verify for wotlk.

-- Wilde

[Barawr]

If you have no professions, going to Handguards means you don't need Grim Toll. If you didn't need Grim Toll anyway, that means you can regem to other stats.

Just curious on which pieces are giving you spell hit cap without Grim Toll. Which other pieces are being used to achieve this?

[monkeysnarf]

Just curious on which pieces are giving you spell hit cap without Grim Toll. Which other pieces are being used to achieve this?

Hanguards (ilvl 226 leather gloves) & T7.5 Helm. (Instead of Blue Aspect and T7.5 Gloves) I don't have my spread sheet open, but it traded around 90 haste for 80'something hit. In my spread sheet I only had to change 1 yellow +crit gem to an orage +16ap +8hit gem. (Plus I don't take into consideration any professions.)

It's really a question of what's the value of haste (and ArPen), after Blizzard fixes them. Like Wilde said, Haste is really only good for melee and maelstrom. I suppose it should also be noted that hit after cap is only good for white.

[Barawr]

OK, so you did have to use at least one gem. I'm getting around 350 hit rating from gear alone if I go with some pieces which have less dps stats (obviously). Still that balancing act of whether or not to take all the gear with the stats or gem for it and which is actually better.

[monkeysnarf]

OK, so you did have to use at least one gem. I'm getting around 350 hit rating from gear alone if I go with some pieces which have less dps stats (obviously). Still that balancing act of whether or not to take all the gear with the stats or gem for it and which is actually better.

My bad. I kept the same gems I had in there from before and the +20 hit to gloves enchant. (Non jewcrafter gems.) I switched 1 yellow gem from all crit to orange half AP half hit.

[Losullus]

I think the spellhitcap isn't really hard to optain without Grimm Toll, I've got 372 hit and i only made one 8 expertice + 8 hit gem, but this one was needed for meta gem. A bigger problem I think is expertice atm, because almost every gem slot is a +16 expertice to reach the cap :O

[Barawr]

You're right about the hit vs. exp cap. However, in the process of reaching this hit cap you end up using some inferior dps pieces. Whether or not taking them over another is beneficial to us is the real question. Come on Rawr! hope to see you soon.

[Deleted]

Come on Rawr! hope to see you soon.

Well if ppl would respond to my plea to test the damn thing it might get there a bit quicker!!! PLEASE!!! I NEED testers.

[Enhance]

Well if ppl would respond to my plea to test the damn thing it might get there a bit quicker!!! PLEASE!!! I NEED testers.

Test What? i dont mind testing stuff

[Deleted]

Testing the Rawr.Enhance module - NOTE the one committed on the SVN NOT the v2.1.9 version which is the lvl 70 model.

[Amgyn]

quick quest and bump for the greater good...

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...stmane&n=Nigma

which is worth it... t7.10 helm + 4 piece bonus or blue aspect helm?

Should i keep blue aspect helm and go for t.25 gloves instead of current rusted link gloves?


i lost lots of hit rating, but i can just add more hit/exp gems :-/
Thanks.