Stealth question

[Skalu]

Dear community,

i am suffering since S5 start of a very ennoying problem, concerning stealth,

i am NE, ingeneer with googles, cloak stealth enchanted, and heightened senses 2/2, so that, i have a very very good stealth level and stealth detection.

since the beginning of S5, i was spotted by other rogues more often than i spotted them, this even if they were UD withtout googles and cloak enchant.

when i say i get spotted, i mean i get sapped, without even having heard the stealth sound, not seen anything, they really see me before i see them, so i can't think any maccro use could help (correct me if i'm wrong).

i thought i got unlucky so try to focus on something else, and sometime i could do it better....

BUT, tonight, i entered in a duel against a lvl 79 rogue, not ingeneer, without googles... And the same happened, he spotted me, i didn't see anything, didn't hear anything.

so i think there is something fat i missed, like a stealth level cap or something, i don't know, i'm lost :/

for bad inspired guy, i'm not a pro gamer, but i'm far from a noob, played rogue mage at 2 175 in S2/S3, rogue druid 2k+ in S1/S2.

today i am sticking 1800 because every rogue spot me, and today, this means almost 100% BOOOM DEAD.

Any help will be greatly appreciated

[Wurfab]

that must be lag then.

[xnickybx]

it's cute how you say googles.

[Shamb]

You are either the unluckiest person on earth: meaning every rogue always approach you from behind and you can't see them

OR

Lag issues let them see you and sap you before you see them on your screen.

[Splatter]

Whats your spec, i assume you have Mod and Camo ? its either lag or tactics, dont charge out in front, sneak around like a rogue and try to flank and keep your back to a wall or your team mates.

[Skalu]

i have mod ans camo, in fact, i have everything i can have improving stealth or stealth detect, but a jewelcrafter trinket.

i never charge front, but that's funny you say that, because many of the rogues spotting me, were under sprint buff... i tried it myself without any good results, i heard about pre vanish tactics, yeah maybe, but they didn't all used this to get me, just because it can't work each time.

the lag issue, i thought about it, but the lag we suffer today is server lag, so i think i have about the same lag as my opponents, and tonight, against the lvl 79, i really had no lag, and such a difference in stealth and stealth detection that i really can't understand

thanks for inputs, even if i'm not sure the truth is in them (and that's a shame)

[Soulfighter]

did you made an duel near/on a hill?^^ and you where the rogue that started from the bottom? xD

if yes... take an other spot 2 start :P
otherwise it must be lag or you got bad preferences

[Shamb]

Honestly the ONLY thing I can see that could make rogues open on you 100% is lag.

You can't be THAT unlucky (god I hope for you :P).

Btw I am suffering from lag these days also, and it ain't server lag, cause my brother that live below me doesn't lag. And we have the same type of connetion from the same company.
My computer is better then his also... So my bet is my modem is near death. Unless there is something else that I don't know of that could affect it.

[ThatOneDude]

i have mod ans camo, in fact, i have everything i can have improving stealth or stealth detect, but a jewelcrafter trinket.

i never charge front, but that's funny you say that, because many of the rogues spotting me, were under sprint buff... i tried it myself without any good results, i heard about pre vanish tactics, yeah maybe, but they didn't all used this to get me, just because it can't work each time.

the lag issue, i thought about it, but the lag we suffer today is server lag, so i think i have about the same lag as my opponents, and tonight, against the lvl 79, i really had no lag, and such a difference in stealth and stealth detection that i really can't understand

thanks for inputs, even if i'm not sure the truth is in them (and that's a shame)

You should record some moments of this happening and share with us. Cause if you claim all of that, what else is there? So with that said, I want to believe you, but it's just so unlikely.

[mmocc3a3dda21e]

maybe you have draw distance set on low and see objects set on low ? maybe bad computer ? you are using your "stealth" not your Nightelf stealth ability ? cus if u are using your NE ability u wont have your stealth improvements . other than that it must be lag otherwise =/ well good luck ! ;D
Sorry for my bad english i hope u can bare it ^^

[kalewaite]

They used to have a really good sap macro prior to 3.0, but the macro mechanics changed and this is currently the best one

#show sap
/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast sap

You can spam that when looking for a rogue, but you may want to have that on your bar AND a normal sap for other classes.

[couplemate]

can you still go invisible ?

I must admitt I haven't tried but with the rite gear (since some use to have +Stealth on it) you use to be able to go basically invisble.... wondering if it can still be done but I do not think so.

[Skalu]

thanks for all your answers,

reading all of them, i think the problem could be my computer, it is not a very powerfull one,

do you think lowering my videos settings could make me see objects/players/NPCs faster ?

@ Viyidin : i have an old sap macro targeting non combat enemy, casting sap, and clearing target.

should i change it to get yours, i am not really in the macros so i don't know how the changes you are speaking about impact the way they worked ?

i am speaking about stealth of course, not shadowmeld...

[Gryzorz]

The problem is only that stealth detection works exactly like mob spawn when you're moving, except the radius is much smaller.
Conclusion is detection is better when you're moving, and is better in general in the direction you're moving to, if you're not turning often.

if you wander in a small zone, detection is random around you, because the server cannot estimate properly you next position.
Best detection is moving in front of you and turn quite slowly, so as your estimated future position is pretty much always accurate.

To confirm that, try flying with a 280 at low altitude. When mobs pop underneath, immediately turn back 180°, you'll se that you'll quickly enter an empty mob zone for a few seconds, because server sends you information about mobs around you every few seconds (3 or something), and uses you current position and speed to determine the next "zone" they must send you information about, meaning when you're moving : in front of you. That's why wandering is not efficient.

It's either that (your way of moving) or very very bad ping, like when you're playing on EU server from australia.

[Jinyu]

You could try a pre-Vanish. With a stealth. But thats using a risky CD. Can work fine.

[kharmakazi]

I would bet all my gold its skill. Not to be rude to you but some people have an extra good sense for these sort of things. On my non rogue alt I can usually tell when a rogue is about to hit me even without seeing him. You cant explain it really, so the only term that comes into my mind is skill. Take it or leave it.

[Skalu]

The problem is only that stealth detection works exactly like mob spawn when you're moving, except the radius is much smaller.
Conclusion is detection is better when you're moving, and is better in general in the direction you're moving to, if you're not turning often.

if you wander in a small zone, detection is random around you, because the server cannot estimate properly you next position.
Best detection is moving in front of you and turn quite slowly, so as your estimated future position is pretty much always accurate.

To confirm that, try flying with a 280 at low altitude. When mobs pop underneath, immediately turn back 180°, you'll se that you'll quickly enter an empty mob zone for a few seconds, because server sends you information about mobs around you every few seconds (3 or something), and uses you current position and speed to determine the next "zone" they must send you information about, meaning when you're moving : in front of you. That's why wandering is not efficient.

It's either that (your way of moving) or very very bad ping, like when you're playing on EU server from australia.

oh i wasn't aware of that, thanks a lot for that clear explanation.

when stealthed, i was in fact making circles quickly, while moving to try to be in front of the opponent as soon as i see him, but if i understand correctly, this screw my chances to see him, because i might very probably not be facing the direction i want when the server will send me information about other players around.

I'll try to move quietly, always facing the direction in which i move, omg that means keyboard turning

i will give you a return on how it works, it could be very interesting, i'm not sure a lot of players know that.

[Skalu]

well it doesn't work great, but i had better time in the last arenas, spotting a bit more rogues...

i noticed that rogues that spot me are very often in sprint,

maybe, for the same reason Gryzorz explained, during sprint the distance you see stealthed is greater, as your speed is also greater.

still i'm a bit disappointed to have a dedicated profession, losing stats for better stealth with enchants, having one of my racial upgrading my stealth, to get such a little advantage on spotting non ingeneer, non enchanted UDs...