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  1. #21

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner

    But you have to weigh this versus the amount of overhealing gheal does. Fheal doesn't overheal very often, and when it does, not for a lot.
    Gheal regularly overheals for quite a significant amount as it will be sniped all the time. GHeal is by far the more risky spell.
    Any holy spec that is worth anything will have serendipity... meaning that Overhealing will refund 25% of the gheal cost. You are quite correct that gheal will generally overheal for a portion, a good holy priest will ensure about 10% of the heal is overhealing as to keep the tank/target within safe health levels while making a large portion of their heal effective... and the slight overhealing makes that heal even more effecient. 750 odd mana for an 8K heal makes it by far the best HPM spell available to a holy priest.

  2. #22

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Utfan
    I have been disc for most of my time as a priest post lvl 75. I find it to be a great healing build as well as versatile in PvP and soloing. I respecced yesterday to holy thinking that I would get a better group healing build that is more useful for raids.

    What I ended up with was a completely useless build that was so mana inefficient I could barely heal the easiest heroic bosses. I respecced back to disc immediately. How is anyone a successful holy priest without spamming flash heal and CoH every time its off CD. AND i was extremely dissapointed in CoH as a whole, it is borderline useless as it only heals for around 2k.

    I want to hear from holy priests on this, how do you function without having over 1200 mana regen or spamming flash heal?




    Yea thats because your fking terrible at priest thank you for proving that disc for pvp now holy for pve......L2 play a priest

  3. #23

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    I respecced to heal UP (non heroic, im not 80 just yet) and I thought it was fun. I only healed 2 instances, and my gear is mainly for Shadow. I specced holy for the instance to give it a shot, and I had no problems. I barely every got 50% mana, and that was right before Ymiron when people got feared into other mobs and had to group heal exclusivly. The key with using flash heals I seen is wait for the proc so its free, and toss it on a random member that is a bit low. Shield the tank and cast a GHeal. If the tank is full before the Gheal goes off, cancel it.. it will save you a lot of mana, and recast it.

    You have to learn to be pre-emptive, and not reactive. Disc is reactive healing and prevention, Holy is pre-emptive healing and AOE. Its like on patchwerk, you cast the GHeal before your tank takes a hateful to the face, you know when your gheal lands your tank took a 25k hit. Disc spells are unfortunately to fast for that, and you have to wait till your tank is already hit in order to heal them. (Being a tank I know what is like to be healed) COH, PoH, POM are all wonderful, PoH is a good spell too, because you get 5 chances to crit for your other proc abilities and it heals your entire party for a very good amount. Guardian spirit is also amazing as well, I really enjoy that in tough situations where its hard to keep everyone up, throw on the MT and forget about him while bringing up dps x)

  4. #24

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    There are spells called: Prayer of Mending, Flash Heal, Greater Heal, Renew, Holy Nova, Prayer of Healing, Circle of Healing and of course talent Surge of Light- proc that makes your Flash Heal instant and talent Clearcasting that makes your next 2 greater heals to be cast on 1.6 seconds.

    These are skills for Holy priest, learn to use them (ALL OF THEM) and you will be great healer! Spam mindlessly only 2-3 spells and you will suck most probably.
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  5. #25

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t35208-w...aft_specs_etc/

    Here seems to be a good and through guide to priest healing.
    Its not the end all be all by any means but it definately helped me understand the face of healing in WotLK. It addresses all of the things that others have posted in this thread and gives thresholds you want to try to get to for certain levels of raids and dungeons. As well as gear pros and cons.

  6. #26

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Heal Holy even though a lot of things arent perfect.
    Guardian spirit is a terrible 51-point talent...I know blizz said that 51-pointers should be situational, but not using a 51-pointer in 3 weeks of playing might be a little too situational. Holy takes a little thought and pattern recognition to realize damage patterns, but past a certain gear point, it gets kinda redundant and skill is optional. Disc is a great addition to a healing core, but by no means is it a central part. I love the tree, but holy is just a powerhouse when played right.
    To the part about disc being reactive...i disagree, disc can be as proactive as they want and both specs should be; however, holy can sometimes get away with letting things get a little out of control because of things like CoH, PoM and PoH. These spells are all basically the shit and shouldnt be abused, but are the tools that make the class interesting. Holy priests can keep the group in a heroic healed and sometimes only get overwhelmed by GCD's and the like, but with enough haste and sp, rolling renews on the whole group works well too.
    To be honest, the just-dinged-80 gear level is hard to deal with regardless of spec, but getting the first couple drops jumped mana efficiency up to the point of ridiculousness. My advise, until youre full epic, dont worry about stacking things like crit or even SP, go for haste and spi with some mp5 thrown in if you need it. Healing is still about efficiency and spamcasting is sometimes necessary for entire fights or wings of instances. Don't worry if you dont have 2500sp self buffed, you will, and then its all just kinda a healing macro of renew and pom the tank...you can then start dpsing with holy nova and holy fire on every pull...(DP with Dktanks can be fun too...who knew a healer can accidentally pull 4k dps on a trash pull while healing?)

  7. #27

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    I think in a broad sense Disc is reactive healing, everything is quick and speed. Penance is a channeled speed healing spell, emphasis on flash heals, crit heals giving a shield to give you more time to heal. The only "pre-emptive" thing I really see with it is PW: shield and soon to be Barrier. The rest is reactive just do to the speed involved with the spells being cast.

  8. #28

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Ok, youre not wrong about disc being reactive, but i just dont like to think of any healing as truly reactive. Working outside a planned rotation has its perks, and i hope that's hwy people still heal, i just get the feeling with disc that spending all my time mopping up damage gets boring.

    As i said earlier, i like holy cause of the sense of burst healing. Certain fights are boring as hell cause damage is predictable and noone should care about healing meters, however, some fights are a lot of fun because no healing assignments really lock you down. You always need to watch everything going on in the raid regardless of healer spec, but i think holy priests get the most benefit of watching the raid and the damage distribution. It is still fun to me to heal PuG's that dont know something because then i get the chance to show off healing. Holy has a trick and a sense to it, moreso IMO than druids and pallies, (shamans are kinda fun). Disc feels too much like a pally that watches the raid.
    Disc is getting interesting buffs in 3.1, but really the only thing that changes is the ability to group heal a bit better and maybe pick up a few different talents here and there.
    Try whatever you have the gear for, but watch procs and holy is interesting as hell. try both and holy once 3.1 hits

  9. #29

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadas
    Right, except that holy pallys don't do that anymore. Disc seems pretty unique atm.
    Lemme esplain it to ya the nice way :

    Flash healing is about as sub par as it gets for paladins, we "spam" (its in quotes for a reson) that other dreaded spell because our hps blows without it. period.

    ANY spam = oom

    Back on topic, i'm gonna have to agree with alot of the posts, holy is much more gear dependent than disc, i have seen some pretty bad disc and holy priests so far so maybe priests are more of a bring the player class? idunno :-X need to roll one

  10. #30

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Levitikus

    Which brings me to my next point, while Gheal is more mana/hps efficient theoretically numbers of efficieny don't count when your raid is dying. More often then not again your not healing from empty to full, or even 50% to full more often yoru topping off 80% to a 100 to ensure then next round of AoE dmg doesnt kill, combined that with the fact that you have 3 other raid healers who on their screen saw the person get dmg'd and is now throwing their heal at the person using Gheal for every heal is FAR from worth it because you will drain your mana FAR FAR faster then you can possibly keep it up, and when only 2k of a 10k heal hits and you only get 265 of 1050 mana back, its not worth it at all. Instead use a flash heal that hits for 4-7k so that when it only hits for 2k you dont feel as bad for the wasted mana.
    Firstly... if people need to be topped off, CoH and Renew are better tools than Flash Heal... sure flash heal is sometimes necessary but generally speaking (particularly with current content) you have plenty of time to get people back to full health, we're not talking Eredar Twins with any encounters just yet.

    Secondly, if your raid is disorganised to the point that healers are sniping heals of each other that isn't a problem for your spell selection, thats a problem for your communication and team work. If you're assigned to heal x portion of the raid, then wtf are the other healers doing wasting their mana on something you should have covered?

    Sure flash heal should be used on occasion but it's use is limited as holy... generally 99% of teh time when you need to use flash heal you'll be using up a SoL proc... when SoL isn't up you are better off going to CoH, Renew, Gheal, PoM and even Prayer of Healing or Holy Nova (situational but effective at times nonetheless).

  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral moremana's Avatar
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    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Holy is different than Disc. (yes I have tried both) if you play disc all the time and switch holy it will take alot more than one heroic run to get used to it, and you should have read up on how to heal as holy before doing it, FoL isnt the way to heal as holy.

    Holy imo takes alittle more skill than Disc.
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  12. #32
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    To the OP:

    If you're spamming FH as Holy, that's your first mistake. Even glyphed, with talents in holy, Greater Heal is the most mana efficeint spell in terms of healing, Flash Heal should be used in emergencies, to top someone off, or when you get a SoL proc on it.

    It's true that holy's mana utility is not as vast as discipline's, but that's also why a holy priest itemizes much differently than a disc priest does. For Holy, I find vast amounts of spirit and mp/5 should be first, then haste and balance in some crit. As discipline, your first stat you go for is crit and int, then balance in some haste, spirit, and mp/5.

    Holy is still quite playable. You just have to be a bit more selective on what you wear with it.

  13. #33
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    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    Learn to stopcast maybe?
    /sign
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  14. #34

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Firstly... if people need to be topped off, CoH and Renew are better tools than Flash Heal... sure flash heal is sometimes necessary but generally speaking (particularly with current content) you have plenty of time to get people back to full health, we're not talking Eredar Twins with any encounters just yet.

    Secondly, if your raid is disorganised to the point that healers are sniping heals of each other that isn't a problem for your spell selection, thats a problem for your communication and team work. If you're assigned to heal x portion of the raid, then wtf are the other healers doing wasting their mana on something you should have covered?

    Sure flash heal should be used on occasion but it's use is limited as holy... generally 99% of teh time when you need to use flash heal you'll be using up a SoL proc... when SoL isn't up you are better off going to CoH, Renew, Gheal, PoM and even Prayer of Healing or Holy Nova (situational but effective at times nonetheless).
    30% of all statistics are made up on spot.

    Renew is a very useful tool I wouldn't dream of disagreeing, however in an encounter such as three drakes we dont generally have time to hit renew and let it do its thing before they get slammed by another rogue fireball from the sky. In freak cases I've been hit with two consecutive fireballs one of which crit and a just spawned fire ele who slapped me to death, before any healer could get even a flash heal or instant heal off in response. Thus waiting for a renew to tick, even raid buffed, for 2k+ isn't always a viable option. To generalize most encounters however yes I would say your right there is no need to spam flash. As for CoH its on a cooldown now so its not entirely a viable option EVERY single time.

    At this point it has nothing to do with the raid being disorganized and more to do with, simply not enough to do. Our main tank healers are assigned and then the rest of us are simply told to raid heal. Unless of course there are extenuating circumstances, such as heal assignments during P3 of Maly but that’s a different story entirely.

    As for needing to use flash whenever SoL is up, while I do get plenty of ticks from SoL it is not the only time I am using flash. As for holy nova due to its lack of real mana efficiency per heal, I VERY rarely use it except for times when I'm simply screwing around. CoH is on CD so while I use it when I can it isn't there ALLL of the time. In the case of raid healing Gheal as I stated earlier results in a GREAT deal of wasted mana, when only small amounts of damage are really being done, now in a fight like Saph I find Gheal to be superb because I can wait till about 50% on someone pop them to full and move on to someone else. PoM is always a wonderful spell so I don't disagree there. And in cases where the damage is slow and no risk of a person getting smacked four times randomly I find renew to be a wonderful spell as well.

    However, the point of my rant is to that when you have other healers who are all efficent and we are currently doing nothing but easy content Fheal is not such a bad spell.

    I will never disagree that GHeal is the most mana efficient HPS spell available but I don't care about how effective a spell can be in theory when it isn't doing anything for me in practice except providing me with massive Overheal, especially when right now holy priests are suffering so much in mana efficiency. Maybe if I could spam GHeal for days on end or when the content is hard enough to require one healer assignment per group or couple of groups, I will consider using it more often. But until such time I'll stick with Fheal.

  15. #35

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    I leveled as disc, then went holy. I never run out of mana. When I first specced holy I forgot to get the disc talent that allows mana to continue while casting. This was the only time I have ever had a mana issue.

    I did OS 3d last week. didnt need to pot fiend or anything.

    Holy is great fun, I think its great that disc is a valid healing spec now though.

  16. #36

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    No wonder Dev's don't listen to priests if this is what they see...a flash heal spammer, I bet you spammed 1 rank of downranked gheal in tbc as well didn't you? Poor poor way to play.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  17. #37

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    5mans: Greater Heal
    10mans: Greater Heal
    25mans: Flash Heal

    ^

    True story!

    If you attempt to cast Greater Heals in a 25man, you will likely get the vast majority of your attempts sniped by another, instant-cast heal by another healer or hasted Flash of Light by a Paladin.

    The only encounter that I can think of off the top of my head in 25mans where the only heal you typically cast is Greater Heal is Patchwerk.


  18. #38

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    No wonder Dev's don't listen to priests if this is what they see...a flash heal spammer, I bet you spammed 1 rank of downranked gheal in tbc as well didn't you? Poor poor way to play.
    Actually, I spammed rank 1, 2, 4 and 7 of Greater Heal, depending on the situation. As well, I found myself actually using Shield, Renew, Mending, and Binding (rarely flash though, and I would never flash myself, ever) as part of stepping outside the 5-second-rule. It's called stopcasting, you might want to learn how to use it if you want any success in 3.1
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  19. #39

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synge
    5mans: Greater Heal
    10mans: Greater Heal
    25mans: Flash Heal

    ^

    True story!

    If you attempt to cast Greater Heals in a 25man, you will likely get the vast majority of your attempts sniped by another, instant-cast heal by another healer or hasted Flash of Light by a Paladin.

    The only encounter that I can think of off the top of my head in 25mans where the only heal you typically cast is Greater Heal is Patchwerk.

    If that starts happening, they didn't need another healer in the first place, and your raid is stacking to many healers.

  20. #40

    Re: Who the hell is holy? And why?

    Not really. Healers are optimized machines to quickly spot the raider with the largest health deficiency. You heal that guy first, as you then maximize the chance of zero deaths.

    If you have 3 raidhealers, they will likely all heal the same person first, even though you actually need 3 raidhealers. Addons like the visual heal on grid and pitbull helps reducing redundant heals, but not all healers use this. It's to the point where I try to find other priorities. Figuring out which character has the third lowest health bar is always a fun change of pace

    In addition, Chain heal jumps and CoH's always snipe where they shouldn't. It's in their nature. During the 2.5 second duration a GHeal takes to cast, you will likely have a flash heal landing, 1x CoH sniping your heal and a chain heal jumping into the target, pushing your GHeal into some 60% overhealing. Sucks to be you.

    If you had used that flash heal, your fresh healer companion would still land his flash heal, but the CoH and Chain Heal would find new and more worthy targets. Effectively, GHeal lowered the healing output of not only yourself, but of the entire raid.

    It's ~10% more HPM ~10% more HPS. Not worth the hassle. Flash Heal is the king of priest healing these days.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

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