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  1. #21

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by lolapus
    Could you link a WWS of a warlock or hunter doing close to 8k DPS on a boss?
    http://wowwebstats.com/mnxrqf2mtbrgo?s=355878-381266

    there u go brah (notice where the one and only shadow priest is)

    Also, I feel the same way as a lot of you, in that shadow priests are becoming not very viable in raids. There is no way that my shadow priest could compete with even a destruction warlock(i understand that they are gimping their dps going destro, but they still out dps shadow priests).

    HOWEVER, i have faith in blizzard in that they wont let any class get to the point where there is absolutely no reason to bring any of that class to a raid. Hell, we took a ret paladin to raids in BC....Im not happy with what they are doing w/ replenishment(that has always been the reason to take shadow priests to raids), but, im sure they will come up w/ something to make shadow a viable utility class....hopefuly set apart from other utility classes, and apparantly now, other pure dps classes.

  2. #22

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by taek
    BTW Mages also proc Replenishment now.

    Blizzard has screwed this one up. At this point, they need to make the regen from Replenishment simply baseline.

    DPS Priests
    Locks
    Mages
    Hunters
    DPS Pallies

    All proc Replenishment now. Seriously, what is the point of even making this a buff? Build it into all mana classe, like they built Salvation into all tanks once they found it was required for raiding.
    The only problem with your arguement is that it's built into very specific talent trees, not all Warlocks, Hunters, Mages, Paladins, or Priests can trigger a replenishment effect. Only deep Destruction Warlocks, Survival Hunters, Frost Mages, Retribution Paladins, and Shadow Priests can. That means that out of 15 talent trees, only 5 can do replenishment.

  3. #23

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    LOL if you notice, both of the warlocks were using the doomguard. In any typical situation, those numbers would not be nearly so high.

  4. #24

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin
    LOL if you notice, both of the warlocks were using the doomguard. In any typical situation, those numbers would not be nearly so high.
    You just ignored the entire reason why I put that link up there. http://wowwebstats.com/ook4hw3ghro2o?s=426833-450540 Here is another link, w/ mages doing close to 8k (I realize that the numbers are being inflated a bit becuase of the % of blust time, but that is beside the point)....Notice how many shadow priests they brought.

    Either way, fact is, shadow priest dps is low compared to other classes. Shadow dps has always been low, but they were a vital raid utility b/c of replenishment. Now that raids dont need to rely on shadow priests for replenishment, whats even the point of bringing one? Why not just bring a mage or a warlock? You will probably have a ret pally and surv hunter anyway. Fact is, you are gimping raid dps by bringing a shadow priest, and the amount of mana regen for healers/casters will usually remain the same regardless if you bring a spriest or not. Obviously there is a problem somewhere, and im sure blizzard plans on fixing it.

    Because replenishment is required for raids, and becuase so many classes have that buff, the buff itself has become very trivial. My humble opinion is to have VT work like VE. in that, the shadow priest would give repleneshment to people outside his/her party(the exact same buff hunters, mages, paladins and hunters have), but he would give a %age more mana back to people inside his/her party. Maybe even a talent that gives more mana back, idk. Or maybe even just give up on the idea of so many classes having replenishment, and buff everyones mana regen by how much replenishment gives, and making the replenishment buff exclusive to shadow priests. I dont envy the person who has to resolve this issue.

  5. #25

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Both those parses look dubious to me. I wonder if the time stamps are right.

  6. #26

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    No they are right, they brought 2 healers and 2 tanks. Shadowpriests don't have any cooldowns (long ones bursty ones i mean) you are always going to be behind when the fight has half of its dps time under heroism with the other classes then pop their 'amg damage' weapons. I personally am still in the top 5 without stupid raid setups.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  7. #27

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Notice the general lack of priests in those raids. Between those 2 parses, only 1 priest and he was bottom of damage and was shadow spec. No holy, no disc. If 2 of the best guilds in the world aren't bringing priests to raids, it says something. If you are maintaining top 5, especially on patchwerk then your top 5 are carrying alot of players.

  8. #28

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Does that mean pure dps are hybrids now cuz they bring utility and thus their DPS should be lowered????

  9. #29

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by heriana
    The entire weight of that thought rests upon the validity that they balance classes well...
    to some extent but as it stands I don't see a massive disparagment among classes for pve... any class that is falling behind seems to get some blizzard love and any class that has streaked ahead has been hit with the nerf bat.

    So far I haven't felt the wow community shun any class as not good enough when they put together a pug, raid or whatever pve content you can think of.

    The pvp balancing is completely different but I treat pvp as a different game and quite honnestly trying to blance pve and pvp in the same game seems to me to be a task in futility.

  10. #30
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    While PvP is more in their considerations, they still mainly focus the game on the PvE side.

    Most new abilities been designed for PvE, not PvP.

  11. #31

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by driizz
    http://wowwebstats.com/mnxrqf2mtbrgo?s=355878-381266

    there u go brah (notice where the one and only shadow priest is)

    Also, I feel the same way as a lot of you, in that shadow priests are becoming not very viable in raids. There is no way that my shadow priest could compete with even a destruction warlock(i understand that they are gimping their dps going destro, but they still out dps shadow priests).

    HOWEVER, i have faith in blizzard in that they wont let any class get to the point where there is absolutely no reason to bring any of that class to a raid. Hell, we took a ret paladin to raids in BC....Im not happy with what they are doing w/ replenishment(that has always been the reason to take shadow priests to raids), but, im sure they will come up w/ something to make shadow a viable utility class....hopefuly set apart from other utility classes, and apparantly now, other pure dps classes.
    I just looked at their warrior tank, seeing how he could do near 3k dps on patchwerk. Figuring, maybe he is doing something that I am doing wrong.

    Then I looked at his weapon damages (avgs)

    912 heroic strikes?
    2.4k shield slams? with a 6k max!?
    lol at the 743 avg devastates xD

    That was like.. how could you do 2.7k dps with shitty damage? So I got a little confused and decided to do some math but even that didn't add up.

    How can someone do 1 attack.. "Shockwave" and hit 2702.. but also hit 5943.. I thought he only did 1?

    So.. even still, I can see that his rotation sucked if he did very little attacks. Now.. if you look at the Warlock.

    Drain sould.. 13k a tick..wtf?!

    Enough said, that WWS was rigged.


  12. #32
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Exodus wouldn't rig stuff like that, it's one of the best guilds in the world (progress wise). Also, the log itself reports two hits: http://wowwebstats.com/mnxrqf2mtbrgo...lter=shockwave

    You happend to forget that the WWS "Hit" column is non-crit (read the tooltip you nutter). So it looks perfectly fine to me, stop bitching when you suddenly see a log from people who know how to play.

    That was like.. how could you do 2.7k dps with shitty damage?
    Your head clearly don't understand DPS.

    Lets summary it up for you: DPS = DAMAGE PER SECOND , PER SECOND!

    On a fight that last 1 minute 39 seconds ,that's 60 + 39 seconds, 99 seconds.

    His total damage was 271,520, divine that with 100, and you get 2700 dps (rounded).

    The dps is insane high because the fight is insane short. So Math > You.

    Drain sould.. 13k a tick..wtf?!
    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47855

    Drains the soul of the target, causing 710 Shadow damage over 15 sec. If the target is at or below 25% health, Drain Soul causes four times the normal damage.

    That's 2800 per tick, BASELINE!!!!! Add 2500+ spellpower, and then 13k is not really surprising.

    (21:50'49.457 Patchwerk suffers 15689 Shadow damage from Tenzo Drain Soul.)

    pew pew

  13. #33
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    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    I understand why Blizzard refrain from going into discussions like this, god damn some people need a proper lecture on how the game mechanics work.

    Spend some time talking with the fellow classes in your raid, learning how their stuff works, instead of doing pointless discussions and flamewars on the internet.

  14. #34

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    Exodus wouldn't rig stuff like that, it's one of the best guilds in the world (progress wise). Also, the log itself reports two hits: http://wowwebstats.com/mnxrqf2mtbrgo...lter=shockwave

    You happend to forget that the WWS "Hit" column is non-crit (read the tooltip you nutter). So it looks perfectly fine to me, stop bitching when you suddenly see a log from people who know how to play.
    Your head clearly don't understand DPS.

    Lets summary it up for you: DPS = DAMAGE PER SECOND , PER SECOND!

    On a fight that last 1 minute 39 seconds ,that's 60 + 39 seconds, 99 seconds.

    His total damage was 271,520, divine that with 100, and you get 2700 dps (rounded).

    The dps is insane high because the fight is insane short. So Math > You.
    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47855

    Drains the soul of the target, causing 710 Shadow damage over 15 sec. If the target is at or below 25% health, Drain Soul causes four times the normal damage.

    That's 2800 per tick, BASELINE!!!!! Add 2500 spellpower, and 13k is not surprising. (And it can crit )
    Just because a guild is good, doesn't mean people are above making WWS look special. IF you actually looked at their attempts, they wiped a few times on easy mode bosses. If they were so good, why would they wipe so goddamn much?

    Also, I did make a mistake on the warlock damage, Ill call that out as my bad, I was wrong. Also, I made a reference to damage because I think of myself as a pretty decent prot warrior, (My spec currently is for something else, been leveling my priest instead of speccing to my original) and I do have an excellent rotation for pve tanking. My hits are higher, and occur greater frequency then what was put out by this person. I do not see how it was possible to put out 2.7k as this prot warrior, unless you crit every single attack, even though at which the avg damage would have been higher. Something goofy going on.

  15. #35
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    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    *graps a shovel and hits Nilinor in the head*

    If I do a 10k hit with a 1 second cast, I do 10k dps.
    If a warrior do 270k damage on 100 seconds, he do 2700 dps.

    Look at the numbers man, they are perfectly fine. If you're saying HS average hitting for 912 is wrong then you should perhaps play your warrior a bit more.

    they wiped a few times on easy mode bosses. If they were so good, why would they wipe so goddamn much?
    As said earlier in this thread, notice the ENTIRETY OF TWO!!!!!! HEALERS IN A TWENTY-FIVE MAN RAID.

    and I do have an excellent rotation for pve tanking.
    Do your rotation implies to spec Improved Heroic Strike, and spam that more than your other abilities, knowing you'll do more than enough threat on Patchwerk anyway?

    Notice how the PROTECTION warrior got DEEP WOUNDS.

    Clearly you got trouble grasping what was going on in that raid, because you never ever played on that level of the game before.

  16. #36

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    What you say is true ina way. But comparing the dps on ~2.00 min patchwerk kills, isnt fair to much dps classes.
    Ok certan classes can perform tremendous dps as opposed to shadow priests, we dont have the leverage to play around wich special specs and rotations as pure dps classes do. We lack any form of dps increasing "cooldowns". And no class can sustain that amount of dps in longer fights on any bosses.

    And about the replenishment, blizz is really doing something wierd here. They are working to make 25 mans like a group of 25 people and not a 5 groups of 5.
    And by doing so every time they make a change in that direction they also remove the need for classes per say, they are infact streamlining they entire aspect of raiding.
    Bring the player not the class is slowly destroying raiding, soon it wont matter if you play a mage, lock or a warr, dk. Blizz could might aswell just reduce classes to melee - caster and just infuse specs and races for different looks.

  17. #37

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    imo pure class's shouldent even bring buffs / debuffs maybe 1 buff / 1 debuff like ai / scortch or fel intel / 1 curse well hunters dont bring nothing except md / strings. tbh leave the majority of buffs / debuffs to hybrids.

    hybrids dps is lower due to the more buffs / debuffs they bring
    pure class's have way higher dps but few buffs / debuffs.

  18. #38

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    have you watched this WWS?
    demo lock whit doomguard
    1:36 patchwerk fight
    1x bloodlust
    1x potion of wild magic

    i can't stop laugh ;D

  19. #39

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by nikari
    imo pure class's shouldent even bring buffs / debuffs maybe 1 buff / 1 debuff like ai / scortch or fel intel / 1 curse well hunters dont bring nothing except md / strings. tbh leave the majority of buffs / debuffs to hybrids.

    hybrids dps is lower due to the more buffs / debuffs they bring
    pure class's have way higher dps but few buffs / debuffs.

    I'd agree to this 100%.

    If the Hybrid DPS is actually lower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish8586
    I tihnk wehn naruto uses teh spirit bomb on vegeta den he will b defeated and tehn he can fite teh homonclus taht ed made cuz he cant cuz its his mawm!!! ^______________________^

  20. #40

    Re: Posted * ANOTHER * Replenishment

    Quote Originally Posted by driizz
    You just ignored the entire reason why I put that link up there. http://wowwebstats.com/ook4hw3ghro2o?s=426833-450540 Here is another link, w/ mages doing close to 8k (I realize that the numbers are being inflated a bit becuase of the % of blust time, but that is beside the point).
    ok, now i think you miss smtg...
    look at mages' Buffs tab
    they got Trick of the Trade twice... alse arcane specced....
    they can do (for sure!) amazing DPS in a 1:37 fight hit 40 secs of BLust/Heroism
    but (also for sure!) they cannot do it for more than 2 minute...
    it's the same if i say "on ogrimar's dummy i can do 8k DPS whit a single POM-pyro"...

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