Divine Plea Change

[Straug]

props to you, I was trying to get say that you couldn't break 1500 without kings, I just typed it out wrong. Nice gear

Thanks. Hitting 1500 int without kings would be tough. I'm sure it's possible, but you'd likely be taking such a hit on your other stats as to make it pointless. I suspect that won't be the case with T8 gear though.

[Vertue]

I don't know but when I heal, I have never used Divine plea alone. I have two macros, one pop DP + trinket, the second pops DP + AW (=30% healing reduction) + SP trinket = either no penalty or very low penalty. Unless they make this crap 100% healing reduction, I am still popping it every CD in heroics. Might actually do some maths to find a way around it for Raids. Holy Pally, "You will never oom me, you hear me Blizzard... NEVER!!!!!" ;D. The way I see this, it's going to be more of a nerf for Rets and Prot who want a quick fix than Holy.

[Dr. D]

WHY does everyone think DP sets some sort of MS effect on yourself - it's just for YOUR heals you cast on someone, not incoming heals from other healers.

[Lionne]

No fight I've ever been in. I didn't say we needed to spam endlessly. Maybe you misquoted me.

Comparing it to Hymn of Hope is not really relevant. It's a channeled cast so you can cancel it anytime you want and chuck a heal if there's an emergency. Divine Plea is a 15 second buff, meaning you will actually have to actively cancel it if you ever need to. The time you lose doing this is mostly so small it doesn't really matter. But in some cases, it can.

If it's a big deal to you, make a macro.

[Utal]

Learn to adapt.


/thread

[verator]

I wouldn't care about the change if it didn't mean I had to keep using FoL more often in raids. FoL is a boring spell, and far too weak to really do much in heroic raids. WTB a medium level heal. I suppose I'll have to start doing a rotation like FoL x2 HL FoL x2 HL again. Sigh. (Also, if they want disc. to have the healing output of a holy pally on single targets, yet they still get all that absorption, shouldn't we get at least some sort of compensation? I mean, with absorbs gifting RP/ rage to tanks/ targets, it kind of makes Disc. way superior to holy pallies.) I suppose this is only bad because we only get 1 option to regen mana on demand. We cant' stop casting and sit in the 5SR to regen if needed anyhow (woo, an extra 50 mp5) and now our own active regen hurts our ability to keep up our healing output.

[Pally_Power]

I know a holy pally, nice and epic'd too that spams Divine Plea while healing and still manages to top the healing meters by far.

It's not that drastic a change.

You adapt to the change.

[LeyLey]

40% base on 1 min CD would be evil nerf, and it wouldnt scale with gear anymore. I mean for pveholy.

Oh right, I FORGOT THAT HOLY PALADINS HAD SUCH HUGE MANA PROBLEMS.

/sarcasmoff

[RaidedXofAM]

They should have made it 25-30% on a 2 min CD. Or make it 35% BASE mana on a 1 min CD.

Uhhh... because Base Mana is like 5000 something, so it would return a little over 1000 every minute. When healing, 1000 mana is burned through in seconds.

MAX Mana makes it useful. 1000 mana to a Ret Paladin is not the same as 1000 mana to a Holy Paladin.

[Palatinus]

Oh right, I FORGOT THAT HOLY PALADINS HAD SUCH HUGE MANA PROBLEMS.

/sarcasmoff

This is what i don't get, why is everyone saying that holy palas don't have mana problems? Back in TBC MP5 was the only way we could get mana back, other than illumination (which after so much crying about from S1 got nerfed).....and now, yeah palas don't have mana problems, the reason? divine plea...What changed between now and TBC? Divine plea....If they take divine plea away from holy, its back to MP5 to regen mana, how is 600-700 mp5 good when you have at least 20k mana pool?

Every class has some way of return mana, only on a longer cooldown, blizzard once again screwed up the spell...and is now trying to balance it for all 3 specs, or not now.
Just because a class no longer has problems, doesn't mean you should over nerf or remove it...like saying arcane mages have no problem killing others, so lets reduce damage of blast, barrage and pom pyro by 50%...that should give them some problems.......

[LeyLey]

Uhhh... because Base Mana is like 5000 something, so it would return a little over 1000 every minute. When healing, 1000 mana is burned through in seconds.

MAX Mana makes it useful. 1000 mana to a Ret Paladin is not the same as 1000 mana to a Holy Paladin.

HOLY.
PALADINS.
DON'T.
HAVE.
MANA.
ISSUES.

If they did that and removed the -50% healing it would be a pve buff, know less about your class, thanks.

[LeyLey]

This is what i don't get, why is everyone saying that holy palas don't have mana problems? Back in TBC MP5 was the only way we could get mana back, other than illumination (which after so much crying about from S1 got nerfed).....and now, yeah palas don't have mana problems, the reason? divine plea...What changed between now and TBC? Divine plea....If they take divine plea away from holy, its back to MP5 to regen mana, how is 600-700 mp5 good when you have at least 20k mana pool?

Every class has some way of return mana, only on a longer cooldown, blizzard once again screwed up the spell...and is now trying to balance it for all 3 specs, or not now.
Just because a class no longer has problems, doesn't mean you should over nerf or remove it...like saying arcane mages have no problem killing others, so lets reduce damage of blast, barrage and pom pyro by 50%...that should give them some problems.......

40% base mana = about 1.5k.

25% Total on 20k mana = 5k.

You can survive losing 3.5k per 1 minute, you won't die, especially since your heals will heal for 50% more when you use it, averaging out to 50 / 4 more healing.

Or an average of 12.5% more healing per second.

[yiptastic]

This is what i don't get, why is everyone saying that holy palas don't have mana problems? Back in TBC MP5 was the only way we could get mana back, other than illumination (which after so much crying about from S1 got nerfed).....and now, yeah palas don't have mana problems, the reason? divine plea...What changed between now and TBC? Divine plea....If they take divine plea away from holy, its back to MP5 to regen mana, how is 600-700 mp5 good when you have at least 20k mana pool?

Every class has some way of return mana, only on a longer cooldown, blizzard once again screwed up the spell...and is now trying to balance it for all 3 specs, or not now.
Just because a class no longer has problems, doesn't mean you should over nerf or remove it...like saying arcane mages have no problem killing others, so lets reduce damage of blast, barrage and pom pyro by 50%...that should give them some problems.......

50% isn't all that big of a deal... IT might be in PvP when you are using it when your target has MS, but you can always use AW in that case. If you have glyphed SoL and has it on, you are just healing 5% less.

25% gain on demand every minute is very very powerful. and the fact that you have other abilities to neutralize the penalty on a slightly more CD, it makes 50% nerf not something really that damaging.


If you are seriously terrified by the 50% healing debuff, you can pick trinkets that actually boost your healing on use. Then make marcos to tie the trinket and DP.

But I think more importantly is, you should adapt to it and time your healing rotations better. monitor the situation better and you can use it without taking a serious dent from the debuff. (you still gain by spamming heals while the spell is active...)

[Jathro]

Speaking from a holy pve perspective, meh. Sure it's a nerf, but oh well. Pop your wings or a trinket while plea is active and it's still business as usual - just like I'm doing now.

[Majokin]

everybody saying holypalas will have NOT manaprobs after this change, is just f*** stupid. plea is about 600-750mp5...NOBODY can tell me we will need less mp5 in ulduar otherwise ulduar will be WAY TO EASY in healing aspects!

we will see.

[Palatinus]

50% isn't all that big of a deal... IT might be in PvP when you are using it when your target has MS, but you can always use AW in that case. If you have glyphed SoL and has it on, you are just healing 5% less.

25% gain on demand every minute is very very powerful. and the fact that you have other abilities to neutralize the penalty on a slightly more CD, it makes 50% nerf not something really that damaging.


If you are seriously terrified by the 50% healing debuff, you can pick trinkets that actually boost your healing on use. Then make marcos to tie the trinket and DP.

But I think more importantly is, you should adapt to it and time your healing rotations better. monitor the situation better and you can use it without taking a serious dent from the debuff. (you still gain by spamming heals while the spell is active...)

First of, i didn't read most of the thread lol, i wasn't referring to a change to base mana, just that paladins would have mana problems if plea never existed for them.

In terms of pve, im sure it will be easy to adapt to it, every other class has to either stop healing/damage to regain mana in some way...so it will be fine in that regards.

PvP though is a different issue, MS on your healing target is going to reduce healing by 75%? (is that right, cba to go into the maths)....this will have major issues.

The only thing im worried about is that in pvp, plea and the burst damage is the only reason holy palas are doing so well, take theses away and we've gained very little compared to priests/druids/shamans for pvp healing. I just don't want to be at the bottom again for everything but 5v5....

[lawladino]

^ Dont use DP when you healing in PvP. Use it between fights

[Aeorred]

This hurts offspec healing greatly. Assuming they introduce dual spec, it's fine. But if not, I'm often changing gear to heal on fights where our other tanks can fend for themselves.

[Hekto]

???

lols this poster fails bad...