1. #1

    Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Just wondering what other people think since it seems only me and Chronalis are voicing our opinions on the possible changes coming in 3.1

    Now assuming that the Changed version of 1hand Spec and Ardent Defender drops to 3 ranks instead of 5 and that Imp HoJ drops to 2 ranks instead of 3, then This is what I am possibly planning on spec'ing and why:

    before i say why I will compare to my current spec:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRGots0x

    (possible) new spec:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0eVAMuMuIIRGots0xb

    added Stoicism since it will help for stuns as well as dispells (not alot in PVE but could happen, also very good for pvp)

    added Pursuit of Justice to shorten the length of disarm effects and also increase run speed since we dont have a distance closer (it would alleviate the need for me using a weapon chain and the Tuskar Vitality boot enchant for run speed)



    Now another possibility is that imp HoJ goes down to 1 point, or that one of the 5 point talents goes down to 2points. if that is the case and we get an extra talent point then I will get Sanctified Seals instead of PoJ.


    Anyways those are my thoughts. I'd also like to hear thoughts on the skill changes for Prot.
    (NO TALK OF EXORCISM, OR RET, OR HOLY IN THIS THREAD)

  2. #2

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    30 yard silence!!!! hurr durr blargle

    Just kidding. Hard to know what the talent tree will look like when they're finished, but that looks great. The only change I'd make, even though I love love love Pursuit of Justice, is to put those two points in Crusade. It's 2% (4% for human, undead, demon, elemental) more damage, which squeezes out extra threat.

    Re: disarm. It doesn't hurt paladins as much as say a warrior, between Consecrate, HoTR, and possibly 5-stack Vengeance you should be able to last till the disarm wears off.

  3. #3

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by b37x
    30 yard silence!!!! hurr durr blargle

    Just kidding. Hard to know what the talent tree will look like when they're finished, but that looks great. The only change I'd make, even though I love love love Pursuit of Justice, is to put those two points in Crusade. It's 2% (4% for human, undead, demon, elemental) more damage, which squeezes out extra threat.

    Re: disarm. It doesn't hurt paladins as much as say a warrior, between Consecrate, HoTR, and possibly 5-stack Vengeance you should be able to last till the disarm wears off.
    When I get disarmed by rogues in pvp only attack I have is Consecrate, I might be wrong but i sat there after getting dimantled and had pretty much no attacks i could do.

    I have had PoJ in my spec since day one of wrath raiding also because I don't feel like getting a +run speed enchant on my boots. I have not had a need for the extra crit conviction provides, but would love to have it back.

    As for the OP's spec, I like it. Only thing that kill's me these days is when i get stunned in dungeons... although I could have sworn I read somewhere that this talent does not help against mob stuns as they are declared as something else in the programming. Idk, been awhile since I looked something like that up.

  4. #4

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Hey now, I've quoted both you and Chronalis many a time on tankadin discussions, I'm not completely out of the loop :P

    That being said, I verymuch like Lum's spec. I wonder, Chronalis, do you run with the 8/10 rotation? I always go with my sig and it seems like Lum does as well, with the 1 point in Imp Judgements. That being said, I'd drop the 3 out of Stoicism from the OP spec and put 2 into Divine Guardian. I think it becomes personal preference at this point, but if I'm not tanking then putting Hand of Sacrifice on the tank and bubbling gives them either a 39% or 60% damage reduction, based on whether DG and HoS stack multiplicative or if they're additive. Also very helpful in some situations, ie Maly phase 2, when all the lords are down and you're just hopping from bubble to bubble.

    My question is, would Conviction or Reckoning yield more overall tps? Not sure if Seal of Vengeance/Corruption can crit (usually not watching). Ignore the parry-haste possibilities of Reckoning.
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  5. #5

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronalis
    Conviction is FAR more DPS and TPS per point than reckoning ever will be. I did run with a conviction spec for a while, but realised i was missing out on survivability. You also need to think that this is on EVERY spell and ability you have, including healing spells. So, while Divine Plea isn't rolling, you've got another 5% chance to get one of those nice 15K holy light crits.

    I do run with 2/2 Imp. Judgement. However, it's not always any particular rotation. If i need to do the 969 rotation, i've got a macro just for it. I say this, because i prefer freedom over what i do when, which for me, it's sometimes preferring high burst TPS over sutained TPS.
    Quoted for truth. I might slip an extra point into Imp Judgement for the little bit extra there. We'll see. Thank ya again man!
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  6. #6
    yiptastic
    Guest

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    I'm assuming you are talking about PvP, since PvE doesn't require distance closer or anything.


    This spec is better
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0eVAMuMuIIRGots0xb

    20 sec stun + JoC = loads of control and burst.
    Damn I thought the 10 sec HoJ reduction bonus still exists...

    But frankly, I'll rather have silence effect than shorter stun duration. We now have 2 spells that can silence target. one range, one melee. Avenger's shield can also act as small AE range slow.


    man, I can't wait to see prot pallies in full tank gear PvPPing with a ret and holy in arena... I really can't wait for that.

    holy + ret + prot 3v3 team:
    range slow - check
    silence spells - check. got two. 1 on 6 sec CD.
    CC - check. got loads of stuns. (1 guy has 20 sec stun, 1 has 40 sec, and the holy has one for defensive purposes)
    heals - check. all three can heal...
    survivability - check. all three has BoP, divine protection, divine shield, heals, plates, two will have shields, 1 will have instant flash heal, 1 will have massive single target heals with some splash heals, all 3 of them have sacred shields for damage absorption, and possibly one LoH if talented for it.

    the prot will have tank grade mitigation on spell and physical, LOADS of stam, and harder to burst with HP at 30% or lower... mana is no longer an issue.


    buffs: 3 pally blessings... (prot, kings/sanc/might, ret, kings/might/sanc, holy: kings,wis, sanc)

    damage: stuns = burst with JoC. prot has a lot of instant spells: HoTR, SoR, exorcism are all in 6 sec CD. judgement on 8 sec with talent.

    stun helps the ret burst.

    holy can stand at the back and use exorcism and also range judgement if he specced for it.

    boy this is gonna be crazy!

  7. #7
    yiptastic
    Guest

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Iselian
    Quoted for truth. I might slip an extra point into Imp Judgement for the little bit extra there. We'll see. Thank ya again man!
    2 points in sanct seal > 2 points in conviction.

    This spec is better
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0eVAMuMuIIRGots0xb

  8. #8

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    I'm not much for speculation, but I see what you guys are trying to do. Although it's really nice to look ahead and fantasize over possible changes, the truth of the matter is that none of us will know which of implementation will make it live in 3.1.

    Although Blizz releasing design notes so early in the process is hopefull for us to say the least. And I know Prot Spec is going to change ALOT, giving more variety to tanking for us pallys.

    Can't wait till live when I have to theorycraft and test new prot specs for my minions ;D

  9. #9

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    No offense to you but that spec is not decent to say the least.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRGots0x

    This is a much better tanking spec. It contains everything you need to effective tank. Stoicism is completely pointless in PvE its a pure PvP talent since I haven't met a boss yet that dispelled while beating on a tank. Also this spec provides the full ability of Ardent Defender and One Hand Spec
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  10. #10

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree


  11. #11

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by naecroknight
    No offense to you but that spec is not decent to say the least.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRGots0x

    This is a much better tanking spec. It contains everything you need to effective tank. Stoicism is completely pointless in PvE its a pure PvP talent since I haven't met a boss yet that dispelled while beating on a tank. Also this spec provides the full ability of Ardent Defender and One Hand Spec
    I guess you missed the part about Ardent defender, hammer of justice and One hand spec getting points nerfed didn't you???

    "Ardent Defender, Improved Hammer of Justice, One-Handed Weapon Specialization and more have had their ranks reduced." - Quoted form front page


    Ohh and one more thing, the Stoicism is in no way for the dispel feature... it is for the reduced stun feature. We read well don't we???

  12. #12

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Personally, I want to try a spec with Improved Lay on Hands, or Eye for an Eye for PvP.

    Lay on Hands would be great for all the new Ulduar content. As the MT for my guild I find myself using Lay On Hands purely to save a little mana, or to prevent aneurisms from close calls. However, I can't give up Pursuit of Justice, so I don't think I will ever get the chance to clear the new content with an improved Lay on Hands.

    Also, players with low HP don't have the edge that Prot Pallies would with Eye for an Eye. If you cut off the damage cap of Eye for an Eye with me, it stops the damage at just over 16k.

    I like the idea that someone was talking about for the Prot/Ret/Holy pally arena team. Arena is already pretty fun at the moment, albeit hard to get to higher ranks. Even 3 prot pallies is fun in 3v3.

    One thing I don't think will make it through to 3.1 going live is Shield of the Righetous having a silence as well. My guess is they will probably go through with a lot of the Prot changes they mentioned, change the glyph for Exorcism, and get rid of the silence on ShotR. A 6 second CD silence coupled with a 20 second HoJ, and Avenger's Shield silence would just be overkill.

  13. #13

    Re: Thoughts on (possible) New Prot Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by naecroknight
    No offense to you but that spec is not decent to say the least.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRGots0x

    This is a much better tanking spec. It contains everything you need to effective tank. Stoicism is completely pointless in PvE its a pure PvP talent since I haven't met a boss yet that dispelled while beating on a tank. Also this spec provides the full ability of Ardent Defender and One Hand Spec
    actually YOU fail..

    1) because you didn't read my first post completely.

    2) the build you linked is the EXACT build I am currently using (you can check my armory)

    3) Garr in MC is an example of a boss that dispells while pounding on a tank. (there are a few more but i can't think of them at this time. I just know I've b*tched about it before)

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