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  1. #41

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by greenmasheen
    improved divine spirit grants more spell power and only requires 2 points... yet it was not taken.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=120205060301

    i am sure you can swap between silent resolve and imp fort... but i like silent resolve in situations where threat balancing is tricky... ie adds that are bouncing around.
    Improved Divine Spirit was probably not taken because it doesn't stack with flametongue totem. So, if there's a shaman in your raid its a wasted 2 pts.

  2. #42

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by bishdogg
    Improved Divine Spirit was probably not taken because it doesn't stack with flametongue totem. So, if there's a shaman in your raid its a wasted 2 pts.
    WTB regular shaman attendance in raid :-(

    On the plus note, iirc, with DS becoming a baseline talent we'll either see an improved version of the current IDS, a replacement talent (PW: Barrier?), or some freed up talent points.

    To all the 'This is the best spec' posters, best is relative to your role and your raid composition. A few (of several negotiable points):

    If you have shaman, skip IDS.
    If you have several shaman / holy priests, consider skipping Inspiration.
    If you have no issues whatsoever with mana, shift points out of Mental Agility.

    There's no shortage of places to put the points to gain value, and in some cases the redundancy makes it 'pointless' to invest them. With mana the non-issue it is now, you can pull points out of so many areas that enhance regen and put them into areas which improve throughput, generated buffs, survivability, etc. that there can be no one perfect spec for everyone.

    That being said... There are a few core talents that to go without pretty much invalidates your decision to not go more traditionally holy. Mental Strength, Focused Power, Divine Aegis, Borrowed Time, Penance, etc. Can you be an effective healer while foregoing some of these 'cookie-cutter' talents? Sure, for now. But Uldar will step up the challenges. Getting the most out of your spec and rotations will be much more essential in the road ahead, and the basic cookie-cutter spec is derived simply because it is one that allows the typical person to get the most from their build. It is a very solid starting point, but not always the exact build you will need.

    Edit: My spec, as I usually run it:
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=051213020503
    Bigslick (13/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  3. #43

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    This is it, this build suits me really good now

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=000000000000
    Duel me if u dare! I think your chicken, /duel
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  4. #44

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    I was under the impression that rage and all facets of ranking were not reduced by the presence of the priest bubble. The stars there are worked off incoming directly, not after reductions. The only tank that seemed to not benefit from shielding were pallys, due to mana regen issues.

  5. #45

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Whister
    This is it, this build suits me really good now

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=000000000000
    Improved Divine Spirit doesn't stack with shaman's totems. Any 25m raider won't take it.

    You don't need healing focus at current content anyway.

    No Desperate Prayer..


    AetherMcLoud already gave the best disc spec, I see no reason why not to take it. This experimenting with Imp. Ds and not taking DPrayer is just silly.

  6. #46

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Forumone
    I was under the impression that rage and all facets of ranking were not reduced by the presence of the priest bubble. The stars there are worked off incoming directly, not after reductions. The only tank that seemed to not benefit from shielding were pallys, due to mana regen issues.
    While the original communication from Blizzard was that PWS and DA would not interfere with generation of rage for warriors or druids, as of 3.0.8 this was not the case. These bubbles did mitigate them. That being said, on any fight of consequence, the amount mitigated is trivial and of no concern outside perhaps the first few moments of a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Improved Divine Spirit doesn't stack with shaman's totems. Any 25m raider won't take it.
    This is not an absolute. In my 25-man raids, there are times when we do not have a shaman raiding with us, so IDS represents an excellent investment for me in terms of it's raid benefit. Also, in fights whose nature requires raiders to spready out substantially (i.e. KT) if there is only 1 shaman many will be outside the range of the totems, so unable to receive their benefit.
    Bigslick (13/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  7. #47
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    You don't go raiding 25mans without a shaman. Simple as that. Bloodlust/Heroism is that good. Taking a spec with the assumption that there will be no shaman and if there is then you lose 2 talent points, is simply foolish.

    Raiding without a shaman is like raiding without tanks, or healers. They not only have awesome buffs, they are really good healers and have bloodlust which is pretty much needed when you don't outgear the instance.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  8. #48

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    You don't go raiding 25mans without a shaman. Simple as that. Bloodlust/Heroism is that good. Taking a spec with the assumption that there will be no shaman and if there is then you lose 2 talent points, is simply foolish.

    Raiding without a shaman is like raiding without tanks, or healers. They not only have awesome buffs, they are really good healers and have bloodlust which is pretty much needed when you don't outgear the instance.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrubFailPriests
    but we do fine without blust
    Quote Originally Posted by KelDoingAether'sJob
    gtfo of UBRS and when Ulduar hits you're going to fall on your face. Seriously, you can't call OS, Naxx, EoE, Archavon, or anything else as difficult or say "we do okay", because no, you're wrong. Same with those who don't shield, or those that think renew is worth a glyph slot and 3 talent points, or whatever.

    The people who beat UBRS never amounted to anything when they never saw Nef until 2.0
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  9. #49

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    You don't go raiding 25mans without a shaman. Simple as that. Bloodlust/Heroism is that good. Taking a spec with the assumption that there will be no shaman and if there is then you lose 2 talent points, is simply foolish.

    Raiding without a shaman is like raiding without tanks, or healers. They not only have awesome buffs, they are really good healers and have bloodlust which is pretty much needed when you don't outgear the instance.
    I did not say we raid 25-man without a shaman as a matter of course, but rather that we do not always have them present for our raids due to RL circumstances. That being said, we have, without a shaman in group, completed all 25-man content through OS+2 and have completed all but one fight sans shaman for the 20-man achievement (Thaddius to 3%).

    Yes, shaman bring enormous benefit to the raid, but to state that it is 'simply foolish' to attempt 25-man content without one belies a vain belief in your definition of what is achievable or a lack of confidence in your raid's competence. The first night we ever saw Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad we were without a shaman, and 1-shotted Sapphiron (with no Frost Resist gear) and 2-shotted KT, and did by no means outgear the instance. Most of us had never seen the fight before then, aside from watching a couple of videos to set expectations.

    Are we able to perform better with a shaman in raid? Yes. Will Ulduar be more challenging on nights where we are without one? Yes. Foolish to attempt? Hardly.

    And regarding my investment of 2 pts in IDS... The additional 80 SP across the raid on nights without a shaman is among the best use of those points I could take. I take those 2 pts in IDS pulling them from Mental Agility, as mana had never been even a trivial concern from the first time I set foot into Naxx. There are no other places I could put them that would provide similar benefit (most others would simply further enhance my mana longevity, so are pointless). The upcoming changes as announced will not have the impact on Discipline that they will on Holy or Resto. If anything, our regen may end up being slightly buffed since we do not rely on the FSR, and Intensity is being buffed to counter the impact inside the FSR to be applied by the nerf to Spirit. That being said, I have no doubt we'll be accordingly nerfed by, or shortly after release of, 3.1 in manner not dissimilar to what they are doing with Paladins.
    Bigslick (13/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  10. #50
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick
    I did not say we raid 25-man without a shaman as a matter of course, but rather that we do not always have them present for our raids due to RL circumstances. That being said, we have, without a shaman in group, completed all 25-man content through OS+2 and have completed all but one fight sans shaman for the 20-man achievement (Thaddius to 3%).

    Yes, shaman bring enormous benefit to the raid, but to state that it is 'simply foolish' to attempt 25-man content without one belies a vain belief in your definition of what is achievable or a lack of confidence in your raid's competence. The first night we ever saw Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad we were without a shaman, and 1-shotted Sapphiron (with no Frost Resist gear) and 2-shotted KT, and did by no means outgear the instance. Most of us had never seen the fight before then, aside from watching a couple of videos to set expectations.
    You cannot compare what we have now as 25mans to "true" 25 mans. Like they were. Like they hopefully will be with Ulduar (and I'm not talking about sunwell prenerf difficulty here).
    The only thing that truly is difficult right now is sarth3D. Nothing else.

    I don't know. I sure as hell wouldn't try sarth3D without 2 shamans for 5min bloodlust cycles. If I had a raid that didn't have shamans, I'd kick one of the (lower/est) dps, tell him sorry, and invite a shaman facerolling shaman. Bloodlust is that good. It's freaking 40 seconds long.

    Edit, to elaborate the point further: Blessing of Kings? Yeah it's awsome, but you can live without it. Bloodlust? Hell no. The amount of burst DPS over the course of a tough fight especially with adds bloodlust gives, is simply put - obscene. There is no single buff/skill in the game, that gives a raid more in terms of overall effectiveness than bloodlust.

    No mages? Well bought water suxx, but whatever. Not having their debuffs does hurt (a lot), and you really really want a (fire) mage usually, but could manage without them.
    No rogues/warriors/hunters/warlocks? Fine, no problem.
    No druids? MotW really is a sweet debuff, but you can do without. Same goes for all the priest buffs, they help, are nice all around, but not mandatory.
    No Paladins? Phew wisdom really is nice for casters (good things shamans provide that too), kings for everyone, but we'll come around without them. We will miss them for sure though.
    No DKs? Lol, as if but sure, no problem.
    If I left any class out, they are probably not worth thinking about :P

    No shamans? What the fuck should we do! Call the raid or get a random shaman no matter how good/bad? Second option most probably.

    When you want to raid, you want to have: Tanks, as much as needed but no one more, enough healers, and good dps. No matter what classes, not to much melee in the dps+tank compartment is nice but you can do with much more melee than casters probably. Really nice "bring the player not the class" tactics here. But a raid is not tanks+healers+dps. A raid is tanks+healers+dps+shamans. "Bring Bloodlust, not the player" :P

    (P.S. you of course also want enough classes capable of decursing the debuffs at hand - shamans - how nice of them provide dispell capabilities of 3 out of the 4 debuff types, and can dispell buffs of enemies too to boot)

    I'll take my hat off to whoever does sarth3d or did prenerf sunwell without shamans. But there probably will be noone I recon.
    When shit hits the fan, your tanks take huge amounts of damage, the whole raid takes damage too, and that add/miniboss has to go down right now, you don't call for anybody, you call for...

    The Bloodlust-Team

    Da da da da! Dada daaaa!

    *ahem*

    Or as Kelesti put it elaboratly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    gtfo of UBRS
    Want to have a good allround spec for heroics? Sure take IDS, it's good. Want to have the best spec available to you in a raid? Don't take it. Take only divine spirit, it's nice already.

    No single class in the game is as mandatory to raiding as shamans are. Noone provides the huge amount of support they do. They have really good buffs for everyone, they have good dps and really good healer specs, they can decurse, and decurse even more as resto, and finally provide bloodlust. You can live without the various buffs they provide, for the fact that they are really good and wanted, but not needed, and also because other classes provide some of them too, but you cannot live without bloodlust for hardcore raiding.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  11. #51
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    we raid without a shaman when they arent online and 1 of 3 of our 25 man 3d kills was without shaman in the raid.

    they are very nice, but no where near mandatory.

    back to spec discussion, not bloodlust discussion.

    "I'm glad you play better than you read/post on forums." -Ninety
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  12. #52

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    +80 spellpower won't change anything. Sure, you can clear the content with 16 rogues in the raid. But any serious guild (by serious I mean non-casual guild) will not allow to not have a shaman in raid, period. Also, not a single class out there will rule out Misery or FF, and they will gear accordingly.

    I really see no point why waste 2 talent points for +80 spellpower. Like wow, you will have 2280 spellpower instead of 2200. Your PoM will now crit for 5k instead of 4990. That extra 10 will save the tank, definitely.

    I mean, you can spend those 2 points for Imp. PWF or get Desperate Prayer. Sometimes you do need that insta heal, you might fall asleep and need the insta selfheal to stay alive. In the end, it won't be the extra +40 on your heal that save the tank, it's mostly you being alive.

    But then again, having the content easy as it is..

  13. #53

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    +80 spellpower won't change anything. Sure, you can clear the content with 16 rogues in the raid. But any serious guild (by serious I mean non-casual guild) will not allow to not have a shaman in raid, period. Also, not a single class out there will rule out Misery or FF, and they will gear accordingly.

    I really see no point why waste 2 talent points for +80 spellpower. Like wow, you will have 2280 spellpower instead of 2200. Your PoM will now crit for 5k instead of 4990. That extra 10 will save the tank, definitely.

    I mean, you can spend those 2 points for Imp. PWF or get Desperate Prayer. Sometimes you do need that insta heal, you might fall asleep and need the insta selfheal to stay alive. In the end, it won't be the extra +40 on your heal that save the tank, it's mostly you being alive.

    But then again, having the content easy as it is..
    why are you gemming 14 spell damage instead of 19 and enchant 50 spellpower instead of 63? it's nothing that will save the tank y'know

    OT: i've read through these 4 pages and i haven't seen anyone linking the spec i use

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbkhxtrxoVfRdbxtcc

    that one, it might not be _THE_ best but it gets the job done and so far i've been quite good on my mana

    as others have said already, it's a question of playstyle
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  14. #54

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoid
    why are you gemming 14 spell damage instead of 19 and enchant 50 spellpower instead of 63? it's nothing that will save the tank y'know

    OT: i've read through these 4 pages and i haven't seen anyone linking the spec i use

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbkhxtrxoVfRdbxtcc

    that one, it might not be _THE_ best but it gets the job done and so far i've been quite good on my mana

    as others have said already, it's a question of playstyle
    5% bonus and 16% SP-scaling on Shield? That's almost bad enough to ask why you're even using it in the first place, as a "play style", or are they just "filler talents" trying to go shield-less?

    Shield is a spell you should be using almost as much as Penance (on AoE fights, sometimes even more than Penance), why not do everything you can to maximize it?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  15. #55

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    5% bonus and 16% SP-scaling on Shield? That's almost bad enough to ask why you're even using it in the first place, as a "play style", or are they just "filler talents" trying to go shield-less?

    Shield is a spell you should be using almost as much as Penance (on AoE fights, sometimes even more than Penance), why not do everything you can to maximize it?
    like i said
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoid
    that one, it might not be _THE_ best but it gets the job done and so far i've been quite good on my mana
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoid
    might not be _THE_ best but it gets the job done and so far i've
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoid
    not be _THE_ best but it gets the job done
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoid
    but it gets the job done
    Quote Originally Posted by Dentoid
    job done
    it also gives me some kind of virtual personality to do stuff my way and not like "everyone else" does
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  16. #56
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    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Spec shadow, it'll get the job done in current content. Seriously, that spec is weak. Very weak. If you go for Improved Healing, you're way too close to pass out Spiritual Guidance and Spiritual Healing. Then comes SoL, HC, Lightwell.. oh wait, you're holy now.

    Penance is cheap enough already, get 25k mana and you gain from using it, assuming no overheals. -15% of it is not worth of 3 talent points. And Imp. DS.. only if you have no lock [..was it only demo lock though..?] or shammy of any kind. And if you lack either of those, you desperately need either one. And if talking of heroics.. wait, you do heroics still?

    And healing focus? I can't figure any single fight that would clip my healing. Malygos randomly..?

  17. #57
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Cianxo
    Penance is cheap enough already, get 25k mana and you gain from using it, assuming no overheals.
    math behind this?

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  18. #58

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    im not a disc priest but im a healer (resto shaman) and we use our disc priest for MT healing only and he is almost allways capable of solo healing the MT all the time (i mean almost all boss fights).. he got like 24k mana raid buffed and he cant go oom we have used him for solo healing MT in 3 drakes, malygos and almost whole naxx some bosses he needs help at but as ive understand hes having renew up all the time and then just spam flash heal and penence all the time..
    we usually go with 4-5 healers in all raids actually depending if he is in the raid.

    i dont actually know wtf u ppl talk about but it sound like your doing it all wrong..

    btw heres hes specc: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbdhxtrxoifRtfx0c

  19. #59

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll
    math behind this?
    2.5% of 25000 is 625 mana, and one tick obviously crits, thus giving more mana from divine aegis. (all this assumes effective healing)

  20. #60

    Re: Disc pve healer spec

    Quote Originally Posted by dräparen
    im not a disc priest but im a healer (resto shaman) and we use our disc priest for MT healing only and he is almost allways capable of solo healing the MT all the time (i mean almost all boss fights).. he got like 24k mana raid buffed and he cant go oom we have used him for solo healing MT in 3 drakes, malygos and almost whole naxx some bosses he needs help at but as ive understand hes having renew up all the time and then just spam flash heal and penence all the time..
    we usually go with 4-5 healers in all raids actually depending if he is in the raid.

    i dont actually know wtf u ppl talk about but it sound like your doing it all wrong..

    btw heres hes specc: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbdhxtrxoifRtfx0c
    We did naxx with 4 healers, I was the disc priest there.
    We also did Sarth 3D with me healing the MT (easiest job ever tbh).

    And I still claim that 2 points in Imp. DS is a waste and that you do not need Healing Focus since you rarely receive AoE damage. It's a waste of 4 points, they can be spent better.

    Also, if all 3 ticks of Penance heal effectively, the spell costs around 200 mana. I don't have the math to support my claims, I only go by with what I saw while using it.

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