Sunwell harder than Naxx?

[Extrema]

I have never actually fought any of the bosses in Sunwell, but i have read about them alot. Even after the nerf, Kil'Jaeden should have 9.something million health. That is more than many naxx 25 bosses. What is up with that? Sunwell drops way worse gear. I thought, hmmmm maybe the actual bossfight powers aren't that hard. But his darkness of a thousand souls will still one shot an 80, and getting under that bubble requires alot of coordination. There are many damaging powers in the fight that would still do sustantial damage to 80's. Other bosses in the instance don't look quite as hard, for example you could probably zerg Mu'ru.

Can someone who has done sunwell tell me if it is easier, harder, or the same as naxx 25?

I'm starting to think that Blizzard's reason for the 30% nerf was to not make the hit points of sunwell bosses look so ridiculous compared to wotlk bosses.

[Rathyl]

2 things here. First, Sunwell is far harder than naxx, its still pushing it a bit in terms of level 80s unless you know how all the fights go in there almost perfectly.
Second, Blizzard has stated that Sunwell was far too hard, and don't want to design any more raids at that difficulty. I'd say if you want to compare the difficulty curve for newer bosses, look more in the area of pre nerf Kael and back half of Black Temple for the top end that they want.

[Deleted]

Naxx 25 is a fucking joke compared to Sunwell pre nerfs.

The first few bosses were just testers nothing major. But the last half was a good challenge, really good fun doing them and completing them. Such a big sence of achomplishment.

[Grimbold]

2 things here. First, Sunwell is far harder than naxx, its still pushing it a bit in terms of level 80s unless you know how all the fights go in there almost perfectly.
Second, Blizzard has stated that Sunwell was far too hard, and don't want to design any more raids at that difficulty. I'd say if you want to compare the difficulty curve for newer bosses, look more in the area of pre nerf Kael and back half of Black Temple for the top end that they want.

Twins Muru and Kil Jaeden are by far harder than anything in Naxx 25 or Wotlk even

[BDJ]

I've pugged sunwell twice at level 80, with 80's only. we took 15-20 people, 5 of which were not pugs, the rest were.
Both time, Kalecgos was a 1 shot.
Brutallus, the first time, we tried to have the whole raid tank the meteor slashes and forget about taunting. We got him to 200k life. Next attempt (and the week after) we did taunt rotations and got him down.
Felmyst, both weeks, had a learning curve. At least 5 attempts both weeks, but for the most part people were a little smarter than retarded.

TWINS...ugh, I've never kicked so many people out of a raid. The first week, we went from 23 people down to 11 to kill them. The second week, we went from 19 to 12, replacing at least 6 more people in that process. The second kill took about 3 hours, the first took only 1.

M'uru, both weeks, was easy. We zerged him, popping bloodlust off the bat. No problem.

KJ first week we 1 shotted with 12 people and 2 deaths.
KJ second week took 3 attempts due to dragon controler fail.

After all of that, yes, sunwell is still harder than Naxx IMO.

[Zelven]

Oh wow. An instance that was purposely designed to be stupidly easy that anyone can PuG it without any knowledge about their own class. An instance that was stated was made easy so everyone could experience some raid content. I wonder if it would be easier than the end-end-game raid instance of BC? NO WAY. IT'S EASIER?! REALLY?!

Sunwell is going to be harder than the casual playpen, Naxxramas.
This thread confounds me.

[Extrema]

I'm talking about doing both instances at level 80, not what they were right after they were realeased. Nerf included.

[ndrew]

Sunwell was a joke after the patch. Now it is even more of a joke.

TBH, I think Twin Emps from AQ40 is harder than most fights in Naxx...even at level 80!

[TheTieThatBinds]

I've pugged sunwell twice at level 80, with 80's only. we took 15-20 people, 5 of which were not pugs, the rest were.
Both time, Kalecgos was a 1 shot.
Brutallus, the first time, we tried to have the whole raid tank the meteor slashes and forget about taunting. We got him to 200k life. Next attempt (and the week after) we did taunt rotations and got him down.
Felmyst, both weeks, had a learning curve. At least 5 attempts both weeks, but for the most part people were a little smarter than retarded.

TWINS...ugh, I've never kicked so many people out of a raid. The first week, we went from 23 people down to 11 to kill them. The second week, we went from 19 to 12, replacing at least 6 more people in that process. The second kill took about 3 hours, the first took only 1.

M'uru, both weeks, was easy. We zerged him, popping bloodlust off the bat. No problem.

KJ first week we 1 shotted with 12 people and 2 deaths.
KJ second week took 3 attempts due to dragon controler fail.

After all of that, yes, sunwell is still harder than Naxx IMO.

Well, first of all, you still have no idea how hard they were pre-nurf. Theres only 1 boss thats close to the difficulty of Brutallus, in WotLK, and thats Malygos, but still, pre-nurf brut would kick the shit out of him. This is a healer and tank check as well as a gear check. Healers have to be on their toes, and tanks do too. If i remember correctly, Brutallus could do 40k+ swings on the tank, and this was before the flame debuffs.

As for Felmyst, there really isn't anything like that fight in the game. So much raid damage, and on top of that, you have to kite skeletons, manuever through the breaths, all while keeping yourself, the tanks and raid alive. if someone slips, its pretty much a wipe.

Twins is the same as Felmyst in regards to there being another fight similar to it. The cordination, precision, and tanking/healing in that fight is amazing. Its another one of those fights where if one person screws up its pretty much a wipe, but it can be done with one or two people down. Pretty much every fight in this instance, is a fight where you can't lose 1 or 2 people or its done for and you might as well wipe and try again.

Now, for the biggest, most major cock-block in this game, M'uru. This guy was ridiculous. So much raid-wide responsibility that everyone had to communicate and coordinate, almost like a choreograhpic action scene in a movie. You had door-side adds, hallway to KJ side adds, and then the voidspawns. The door-side and hallway-side had their own tanks and the void spawns had 2 tanks, one for each side when the void reaver would spawn. DPS had to be split up in two groups between door-side and hallway-side adds so they could DPS those adds, the voidspawns/void reavers, and also M'uru. All while this was going on, healers were bustin their asses keepin everyone up because once that 2nd phase started, you had roughly 60 secs, because usually you were still messin with a few adds that were still up, unless you had it down to an art. Then you had to blow all cooldowns, use SP pots, and the whole nine yards to actually burn him down in 1 min or wipe, as the raid-wide damage got too immense to heal.

KJ wasn't as hard as M'uru IMO. Wasn't as much raid-wide damage, although, the people who were the dragons had to be sure they put down those bubbles in the correct spots or it would wipe the raid. From there its pretty much burn KJ while killing Orbs.

[jackdiesel]

[quote=Extrema ]
Sunwell drops way worse gear.

NO it doesnt. your comparing 80 gear with 70 gear, if you scaled the sunwell gear to 80 it would be alot better. some sunwell gear is still decent for the 10 mans

[cripple1313]

comparing naxx to sunwell is like comparing kara to sunwell

naxx and kara are both beginner dungeons

sunwell = icecrown citadel

[Hazaleema(bacon)]

Lawl... Naxx and Sunwell in the same sentence?

[Debased]

Naxx 25 vs Sunwell... All I can say is my guild didn't one shot all the Sunwell bosses /rofl.

[Tablemaker]

BDJ - Go 12 man Naxx. Take 25 people into both instances with the same amount of knowledge.

The only way you can compare both of these instances would be to compare Naxx 60 to Sunwell 70, not both Instances at 80.

[Deleted]

comparing naxx to sunwell is like comparing kara to sunwell

naxx and kara are both beginner dungeons

sunwell = icecrown citadel

Nah icecrown = BT tbh.....

Sunwell level will never be done again unfortuatly.

[Debased]

sunwell = icecrown citadel

I don't think icecrown will be as hard as sunwell, maybe BT... I even doubt that for the "normal" encounters (ex. hard = sarth with drakes) it will be BT hard as all the casual want shiny tier loot too now days.

[ikit]

vs 40man naxx that could be talked about...

Naxx 25 = Entry level dungeon
Sunwell = Blizzards dispirit attempt to keep raiders interested and last dungeon in a expansion.

[DaShaman]

Sunwell was a joke after the patch. Now it is even more of a joke.

TBH, I think Twin Emps from AQ40 is harder than most fights in Naxx...even at level 80!

I can confirm this.
Once you get the hang of them with some good coordination, they're doable...But I don't think Ive ever felt so accomplished in an old instance than I did in AQ40.

[fishsandwich]

Oh wow. An instance that was purposely designed to be stupidly easy that anyone can PuG it without any knowledge about their own class. An instance that was stated was made easy so everyone could experience some raid content. I wonder if it would be easier than the end-end-game raid instance of BC? NO WAY. IT'S EASIER?! REALLY?!

Sunwell is going to be harder than the casual playpen, Naxxramas.
This thread confounds me.

I sure hope you aren't either of the Zelvens on wowarmory because neither have even stepped foot in 25man naxx, any version of maly, cleared 10 man naxx, or gotten relatively any achievements revolving around naxx.

[RoseRed]

2 things here. First, Sunwell is far harder than naxx, its still pushing it a bit in terms of level 80s unless you know how all the fights go in there almost perfectly.
Second, Blizzard has stated that Sunwell was far too hard, and don't want to design any more raids at that difficulty. I'd say if you want to compare the difficulty curve for newer bosses, look more in the area of pre nerf Kael and back half of Black Temple for the top end that they want.

As far as I remember that isn't what they said, they said that the encounters in Vanilla (not TBC) was far too hard with 1 month wiping at a boss and they have no intentions of bringing that back again.