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  1. #1

    Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Hi !

    I'm currently running disc / mutilate rogue on 2v2 on ruin battlegroup. We are doing between 1600 and 1650 rating. We have average gear.

    However, i find priest to be quite a weak class in arena right now, compared to how powerful they were back in s4.

    Here is my analysis :

    Mana pool : i have 13,3k mana in pvp gear ( wich im supossed to wear ), it's quite small

    Mana regen : i have 115mp5 ( with prayer of spirit ), any pal with my gear would have arround 200 with wisdom

    Dispel : With all the new anti-dispel talent ( 30% resist ), you can blow 4-5 dispel trying to remove the buff you want. That a lot of mana

    Mass dispel : The only use of mass dispel being to remove pally bubble, with now every pal has 30% resist from prot tree, mass dispel barely work. Cost huge mana

    Shadowfiend : why paladin have a mana regen buff with 1 min CD ( that gonna be undispelable next patch ), while priest have crap shadowfiend that barely get us 25% of our mana back and require the pet to damage the enemy ( at least he's almost impossible to kill )

    Low armor : priest being the lowest armored healer and s5 gear don't provide extra armor ( like in s4 ) i feel like im being raped by any melee with ease.

    Tons of silence : with DK, ret and arcane mage being fotm, i feel like i'm always chain silenced. Very hard with a DK pouding on you.

    No instant self heal : priest being the only healer with NO instant self heal ( but prayer wich is a 11pts holy talent ). Yeah power word shield is nice, but ennemy can still interupt you when you try to heal yourself in your bubble.

    Stack tons of stamina and res : why priest need to stack ton of pvp stats while other healers like pally can faceroll on pve gear and be impossible to kill.


    That my impression of the class, and seeying blizz still not nerfing Dks and Ret paladin. I feel like i'm gonna reroll an other healer.

    Any comments ?


    armory : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rthas&n=Jawbee

  2. #2

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    penance self castable....

  3. #3

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by heriana
    penance self castable....
    cause this solves ALL the other points ?

  4. #4

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Cyclone-EU 2v2 top of the ladder seems to be failrly shared between disc-muti/prep and sv-holy. Lesser presense from UH-holy and Arc-muti/prep.


    Playing 2k+ there, and having quite a few matches vs the BG's brutal gladiator team (which happens to be disc-muti/prep) I argue it's an L2P issue on your end. Or you're possibly so used to sheer easy-mode that comp was in S3 and S4, you expect to roll over people even now, and facing reality where several comps are on equal footing with you, you cannot progress.
    Final option would be that you are just very badly geared.

    Take your pick. Considering that you're stuck below 1700 with a top end comp, and as it stands now, you could do 1800 with a prot warrior, I would go with pretty severe L2P issues.

  5. #5

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_
    Cyclone-EU 2v2 top of the ladder seems to be failrly shared between disc-muti/prep and sv-holy. Lesser presense from UH-holy and Arc-muti/prep.


    Playing 2k+ there, and having quite a few matches vs the BG's brutal gladiator team (which happens to be disc-muti/prep) I argue it's an L2P issue on your end. Or you're possibly so used to sheer easy-mode that comp was in S3 and S4, you expect to roll over people even now, and facing reality where several comps are on equal footing with you, you cannot progress.
    Final option would be that you are just very badly geared.

    Take your pick. Considering that you're stuck below 1700 with a top end comp, and as it stands now, you could do 1800 with a prot warrior, I would go with pretty severe L2P issues.
    I aint complaining about my rating there buddy. I know our problem is gear, cause we dont raid naxx25, so my partner will always be stuck with 143 dps in both hands, period. If we had access to dual anachy i wouldnt say, but sad truth is that we don't raid and there is no arena weapon for us cause all high rating are taken by PvEers.

    I know all rogue / disc that have 2k+ have rogue with dual 171 dps and full pve with no resilience whatsoever.

  6. #6

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaromir
    I aint complaining about my rating there buddy. I know our problem is gear, cause we dont raid naxx25, so my partner will always be stuck with 143 dps in both hands, period. If we had access to dual anachy i wouldnt say, but sad truth is that we don't raid and there is no arena weapon for us cause all high rating are taken by PvEers.

    I know all rogue / disc that have 2k+ have rogue with dual 171 dps and full pve with no resilience whatsoever.

    That is just simply not true. A lot of top end teams run in hateful/deadly mix with 156 weapons because anarchy just doesn't drop, and because SV-holy as well as smart disc-muti/prep (mirror) have a nasty tendency of exploding rogues with no resi inside single CC pass.

    Honestly, the comp alone with savage level gear should carry you pretty close to 2k on its own, provided you have the skill to back it up. From there on, you can slap on deadly gear, and roll to 2.2 at least.

    And lastly, people on top are rarely PvErs. They simply don't have the skill to survive there. It's usually PvPers who take their time and put effort to get best gear pieces from both PvP and PvE that sit there. It was like that for last two seasons.

  7. #7

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaromir
    I aint complaining about my rating there buddy. I know our problem is gear, cause we dont raid naxx25, so my partner will always be stuck with 143 dps in both hands, period. If we had access to dual anachy i wouldnt say, but sad truth is that we don't raid and there is no arena weapon for us cause all high rating are taken by PvEers.

    I know all rogue / disc that have 2k+ have rogue with dual 171 dps and full pve with no resilience whatsoever.
    I got to 2.1k with a rogue with 2x 143 dps weapons. It was pretty easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaromir

    That my impression of the class, and seeying blizz still not nerfing Dks and Ret paladin. I feel like i'm gonna reroll an other healer.

    armory : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rthas&n=Jawbee
    Dude i dont know either your very fucking bad or you go AFK when fighting retradins and DKs.
    They are two fucking easiest classes for a priest to handle. I can literally run around in circles doing /laugh against those two and never go below 90%. (ret/dk is a 100% free win)
    Repeating my dear friends priests - L2p

  8. #8

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Just because Disc Priest representation has dropped does not mean theyre strengths are "no more."

  9. #9

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Excuse me im not even playing a priest, or well hes still left at level 70 - going to level as soon as my other alt is on 80 . But just got interested now, does disc/rogue win against death knight/holy pala or equal plate setups if both teams are playing well? Got that impression now, and well, concidering death knights survival against casters I though they wouldnt take dmg at all from a melee'ers in arena.
    Watch my NEW SPRIEST/MAGE 2700 rated arena movie s8
    http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=164387
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Watch my first Priest/Mage 2500rated arena movie s7
    http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=137765
    - Lightdoom

  10. #10

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    I've recently started to PvP again as disc, currently searching for stable parteners. I have around 22k hp selfbuff, 900 resilience. I have to say that survivability is definetely here for me. Im capable of surviving any 2x dps with proper peeling quite easily. The only problem that I see is that obviously lack proper offensive tools. Holy fire and smite are still here, but they are still scaling very poorly and require Divine Fury talent to run. Most of the discs dont run this one nowadays, im not even talking about manaeffiency, disc only has compatible regen when casting heals/shields.

    Excuse me im not even playing a priest, or well hes still left at level 70 - going to level as soon as my other alt is on 80 Wink. But just got interested now, does disc/rogue win against death knight/holy pala or equal plate setups if both teams are playing well? Got that impression now, and well, concidering death knights survival against casters I though they wouldnt take dmg at all from a melee'ers in arena.
    First off your rogue saps the DK and goes for the pet, trying to force a trinket on a pala with fear from the priest. After that you generally you just train a paladin for a MD and a kill. Still requires decent teamplay, offensive play from the priest, but DK is not really able to peel your rogue off the paladin, the only thing he might do is protecting his bubble with Strangulate on you. Can't honestly see a better way of winning this.

  11. #11

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Keep in mind that the new talent trees have not been announced, and that the new spell, Power Word: Barrier has not been discussed yet. Until we know what the changes are going to be, arguing about the future of the spec seems pointless.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  12. #12

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    There is nothing to argue about. Disc is ok and with burst damage reduction it will be even better.

  13. #13

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Have to agree with Thunderball, Discipline is fine in pvp, but as everyone knows the spec is very geardependant.

    I went from 17.3k health 103 resi to 20.6k health 491 resi this weekend, and the difference is huge.

    Before I did not like pvp at all, but I had some spare badges, got lucky on archavon, and I'm starting to feel like in tbc again. I'm not someone who does arena, you will find me in bgs only, but overall disc will shine again, just be patient and keep accumulating gear.

  14. #14

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    To address two Paladin points...

    Most Holy Paladins do not spec into Prot and thus do not have 30% dispel resist. Most Holy Paladins, especially for 2v2, spec into the removal of stuns with Hand of Freedom, which is 22 points into Retr.

    Second, you can dispel BoWisdom so... yeah. Then again you complain that dispels cost mana.

    All I can say is if you're so convinced Paladins are amazing, go ahead and roll one. Paladins were the second best healers in S1 of TBC (after... shocking! Priests), in S2 they were only ahead of Shamans, and for S3 and S4 they were the worst healers, statistically speaking. As a Paladin I feel like it's TBC all over again and already see the writing on the wall as Ghostcrawler has already said the phrase "too many Paladins," the infamous phrase Kalgan used in TBC a bit before all of the Paladin nerfs.

    I guess what I'm saying is if you're concerned because your Priest isn't strong RIGHT NOW, this probably isn't the game for you. WoW does have a flavor of the month aspect, so you can't expect your class to do well all the time. I can agree that Priests aren't in great shape right now, but the same can be said for many classes. You're complaing about Paladins who were the worst healers for roughly 2/3 of TBC, while Priests were first early and a not-so-distant second later. Maybe you're just used to having it good.

  15. #15

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaromir
    Hi !

    I'm currently running disc / mutilate rogue on 2v2 on ruin battlegroup. We are doing between 1600 and 1650 rating. We have average gear.

    However, i find priest to be quite a weak class in arena right now, compared to how powerful they were back in s4.

    Here is my analysis :

    Mana pool : i have 13,3k mana in pvp gear ( wich im supossed to wear ), it's quite small

    Mana regen : i have 115mp5 ( with prayer of spirit ), any pal with my gear would have arround 200 with wisdom

    Dispel : With all the new anti-dispel talent ( 30% resist ), you can blow 4-5 dispel trying to remove the buff you want. That a lot of mana

    Mass dispel : The only use of mass dispel being to remove pally bubble, with now every pal has 30% resist from prot tree, mass dispel barely work. Cost huge mana

    Shadowfiend : why paladin have a mana regen buff with 1 min CD ( that gonna be undispelable next patch ), while priest have crap shadowfiend that barely get us 25% of our mana back and require the pet to damage the enemy ( at least he's almost impossible to kill )

    Low armor : priest being the lowest armored healer and s5 gear don't provide extra armor ( like in s4 ) i feel like im being raped by any melee with ease.

    Tons of silence : with DK, ret and arcane mage being fotm, i feel like i'm always chain silenced. Very hard with a DK pouding on you.

    No instant self heal : priest being the only healer with NO instant self heal ( but prayer wich is a 11pts holy talent ). Yeah power word shield is nice, but ennemy can still interupt you when you try to heal yourself in your bubble.

    Stack tons of stamina and res : why priest need to stack ton of pvp stats while other healers like pally can faceroll on pve gear and be impossible to kill.


    That my impression of the class, and seeying blizz still not nerfing Dks and Ret paladin. I feel like i'm gonna reroll an other healer.

    Any comments ?


    armory : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rthas&n=Jawbee
    If your havng a hard time breaking the 1600 bracket, sorry to say, but you are probaly just bad.
    I'm a S4 Glad, I lvled my priest up (Which is now my alt) Solely for arena. I pvped with him last week with a muti rogue in half lvl 70 gear and still got 2k rating.
    Divine Plea MAY give mana back next patch, but at the cost of reducing his heals by 50%, making him practically put up a MS for the other team...
    Armor = meh, cry to the mages.
    Silences = L2Pillar Hump, otherwise deal with it.
    Any good priest goes down 11 to get Desperate Prayer, free 7-10k heal. (Not really "free" anymore but meh, better than getting rid of chastice, those bastards...)
    Priests stacked stam/resil back in S2 and all was fine. Let the pallies be more squishy than if they were in resil gear, its fine.

  16. #16

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireheart
    Excuse me im not even playing a priest, or well hes still left at level 70 - going to level as soon as my other alt is on 80 . But just got interested now, does disc/rogue win against death knight/holy pala or equal plate setups if both teams are playing well? Got that impression now, and well, concidering death knights survival against casters I though they wouldnt take dmg at all from a melee'ers in arena.
    any plate/plate team is putting priest/rogue to a disadvantage at the start.

  17. #17

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Dispeling BoW costs about 500 mana. How much does it cost to recast? So I see his piont. Our dispells cost crazy amounts of mana, we have little mana and no way to regen it once it's gone. You have to learn how to drink as much as possible.

    Your gear is not that bad, you can be doing much better with it. You just need more skill, sorry to say this. You have to be more carefull what/when you dispell, when you DoT someone, when you assist with nuke.

    Also it's very possible that you need a better rogue. If he's a friend then try to get him to learn some tricks. He HAS to know how to peal dps off you, he has to take the focus off you. Kill the pets, top off the rogue, shield him, ProM and Renew him, and run off to drink as long as you can.

    You have to have mana for the time when you go for a kill. You will not win if you suddenly go "ups, can't nuke him, oom... damn buff me". Sorry but if does not work this way. You have to assist the rogue, and he has to keep the focus away from you. You need a LOT of team work in this comp. You need room to heal, he needs help to kill, priest have nice nuke potential (could be better, but we can pop >3k dmg in 1.5 sec on demand, not much more tho... cooldowns).

    I remember a funny thing we did agains Holy pally + Warrior once. The rogue followed the Pally over to one side of Ogri Arena, and I kited the war to the other DoTing him up. Then I nuked the shit out of him on PI while the rogue controlled the pally far away. They tryed to get back to each other, but it was to late The warrior died before he came into healing range...

  18. #18

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaromir
    Hi !

    I'm currently running disc / mutilate rogue on 2v2 on ruin battlegroup. We are doing between 1600 and 1650 rating. We have average gear.

    However, i find priest to be quite a weak class in arena right now, compared to how powerful they were back in s4.

    Here is my analysis :

    Mana pool : i have 13,3k mana in pvp gear ( wich im supossed to wear ), it's quite small

    Mana regen : i have 115mp5 ( with prayer of spirit ), any pal with my gear would have arround 200 with wisdom

    Dispel : With all the new anti-dispel talent ( 30% resist ), you can blow 4-5 dispel trying to remove the buff you want. That a lot of mana

    Mass dispel : The only use of mass dispel being to remove pally bubble, with now every pal has 30% resist from prot tree, mass dispel barely work. Cost huge mana

    Shadowfiend : why paladin have a mana regen buff with 1 min CD ( that gonna be undispelable next patch ), while priest have crap shadowfiend that barely get us 25% of our mana back and require the pet to damage the enemy ( at least he's almost impossible to kill )

    Low armor : priest being the lowest armored healer and s5 gear don't provide extra armor ( like in s4 ) i feel like im being raped by any melee with ease.

    Tons of silence : with DK, ret and arcane mage being fotm, i feel like i'm always chain silenced. Very hard with a DK pouding on you.

    No instant self heal : priest being the only healer with NO instant self heal ( but prayer wich is a 11pts holy talent ). Yeah power word shield is nice, but ennemy can still interupt you when you try to heal yourself in your bubble.

    Stack tons of stamina and res : why priest need to stack ton of pvp stats while other healers like pally can faceroll on pve gear and be impossible to kill.


    That my impression of the class, and seeying blizz still not nerfing Dks and Ret paladin. I feel like i'm gonna reroll an other healer.

    Any comments ?


    armory : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rthas&n=Jawbee
    Okey first:

    "Mass dispel : The only use of mass dispel being to remove pally bubble, with now every pal has 30% resist from prot tree, mass dispel barely work. Cost huge mana"

    -only retri paladins have it nodays (prot paladins too but there isnt so many prot paladin on arenas) holy paladins go deeper to retribution.

    "Shadowfiend : why paladin have a mana regen buff with 1 min CD ( that gonna be undispelable next patch ), while priest have crap shadowfiend that barely get us 25% of our mana back and require the pet to damage the enemy ( at least he's almost impossible to kill )"

    -it gives -20% healing done to paladin and in next patch (3.0.9 which is coming tomorrow) it gives -50%, if you have MS effect on target and holy paladin use divine plea his friend is dead.

    "Tons of silence : with DK, ret and arcane mage being fotm, i feel like i'm always chain silenced. Very hard with a DK pouding on you."

    -there is quite many silence effects now but still it got DR so chain silence is wrong word for it.

    "Stack tons of stamina and res : why priest need to stack ton of pvp stats while other healers like pally can faceroll on pve gear and be impossible to kill."

    -pallys with full pve gear wont faceroll at all, you wont find any holy paladin with full pve gear (its like 14.5k max hp what they have) at 2000+ rating


  19. #19

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    There's too much complaining in that post to address individually, so the tl;dr version is

    you can't counter everything you want everytime, you can't have every spell you want for your class, you admit gear is the problem, you can work towards raiding if you really think that will help

  20. #20

    Re: Disc priests strenghts in arena are no more.

    wel im a retri paladin and play with a disc priest

    1) only bother about dispel regarding Bubble or blessing on protection cast on others

    2) my disc priest partner has 900+ resilience hes kiting rogues and still
    able to survive, im amazed by the amount of survivability he has.
    ofcourse , i help him out with HoF and BoP but still

    i like to play with disc priest

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