So what dps spec is doing well now?

[valgas]

So whats doing well now? I am speccing out of arcane (this is pve we are talking about here)

I heard TtW/fireball was doing well, even better then FFB. can anyone confirm?

[Shatteryoface]

ATM 20/51/0 is considered the top dps spec for mages. (Fireball)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

Followed by 0/51/20 (FFB)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

Then (Arcane)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

And finally (Frostbolt)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

Latley though, like I posted in a different thread, I've been messing around with a strange spec. My spell power atm is still a little low for this spec to really shine (im at 1750 and prob need to be at atleast 2k), but I feel once I'm at/over the 2k mark I'm really going to enjoy this spec
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

ATM my frostbolt cast time is 1.75 secs so BrainFreeze procs a ton. Getting TtW for both my frostbolt and fireball plus getting ignite on my fireball crits has proven to be quite amazing. With this spec I tip just over 4k dps on boss fights which I honeslty didn't think was gonna happen. I really feel that once blizz fixes raid dps for frost mages like they have been implying they are then I truly think this spec is going to be extremely fun to play.

[keld]

Interesting ranking on specs there, especially since most calculations up to now have Arcane and Fireball neck-to-neck as the #1 spec in terms of DPS.

Also, most of the accepted Fire/Arc specs that I've seen are 18/53?


Just as some constructive observation, the spec you're 'messing around' with is quite odd. It looks like a play around with the frost raiding spec by choosing to put points into arcane, which essentially I think gimps your fireball damage even more. Frost is already the lowest DPS raid spec by a very far margin, you will need much more than that to gain on DPS - which is why the Frostfire spec exists. At 2000 SP, an equally geared FFB mage will still out-DPS you in that spec.

[xnickybx]

I back his fireball spec. You are either gonna get flamethrowing or meditation. I'd rather have the excess mana regen. And blastwave and dragons fire are a waste of talent points in raids IMHO. Unless of course you like knocking shit back for some reason.

His frost/ignite spec is another story and I definetly do more damage as arcane than I did as ffb even after the "nerf."

[Zelimagi]

With all buffs, glyphs, talents, and everything in betweeen (but NOT combustion) I have a 70% chance to crit with fireball. Needless to say, frostfire bolt can't keep up with that.

Frostfire bolt is truely, a crappy fireball painted purple. Old school fire is back, and more fun than ever.

If you go 18/53, be aware that your aggro is going to make weak tanks cry and your gear to break along with that. I missed that so much...frostfire was too carebear in PvE with it's 20% threat reduction. I like the edge fire brings, and fire definately brings the heat.

Arcane is too messy.

[Odina]

If you go 18/53, be aware that your aggro is going to make weak tanks cry and your gear to break along with that.

So true but So much fun! :P I would not sugest it to thoes that dont have the gear to support the high hit req! You could prob out dps a 18/53 as FFB if your going to gimp your crit and dmg too much to get the hit cap!

However if you got the gear its so much fun Almost forgot how much fun launching fireballs was :P

[Zelimagi]

So true but So much fun! :P I would not sugest it to thoes that dont have the gear to support the high hit req! You could prob out dps a 18/53 as FFB if your going to gimp your crit and dmg too much to get the hit cap!

However if you got the gear its so much fun Almost forgot how much fun launching fireballs was :P

Exactly! Today I tried it out in a guild naxx 10 run, and I actually died! It's been so very long sence that's happened, that I smiled when I died and told the raid "I'm a mage again!"

On top of that, I beat the hunter who was with us on some fights when we didn't have IFF or Misery to give the 3% hit buff. That's something to be said about fire dps.

[greenmasheen]

thunderclap counts for torment of the weak?

[Zelimagi]

Any slows or snares, and thunderclap slows attack speed so...yeah.

[Chiharu]

If you go 18/53, be aware that your aggro is going to make weak tanks cry and your gear to break along with that. I missed that so much...frostfire was too carebear in PvE with it's 20% threat reduction.

FFB only got 10% threat reduction. The fire and frost threat reduction did not stack.

Having said that, Fireball is a more consistent high threat level, whereas FFB was more spikey on crits, so FB is more likely to pull aggro overall, whereas FFB was a weak nuke on hits, and very strong on crits, which is why it was generally ok for aggro.

[Dojf]

Is Arcane really that bad in DPS? :P I'm still able to put out about 5600 - 6000 DPS on almost all fights in Naxx + Sarth2D/3D. (No WWS to confirm tho) with 2320 sp and about 540 haste. Going to try Arc/Fire next Naxx raid and see how that goes, just sad that I don't get the extra hit with talents As fas as rawr goes I will have about 62% crit (507 unbuffed critrating from gear)with Fireball raidbuffed and a casttime on 2.39.

[Troskarin]

No, arcane is still very much raidviable and LESS manaintense than arc/fire if you can manage your mana.

[Tieeem]

So, Fire is now better than arcane? Is this confirmed i've just had a good look through wws, and all top dps raid mages were arcane still.

Imo the best mage spec is, laser spec. Lazors PEW PEW!

[Xevec]

Look at all the different specs. I like now that all specs are competent in DPS, but at the same time, have their trade-offs. Look at the top DPS spec, fireball/TTW. You can have top DPS, but if you can't get to that hit cap, it kinda sucks. I'm surprised with some people that they can have a 70% chance to crit with fireball, and at the same time, get 446 hit(taken from WoWwiki). But of course, it's very possible that you ALWAYS raid with a boomkin and shadow priest, which provide 6% hit(does imp faerie fire and misery stack?)

But overall, I like now that all specs of mages can top DPS. I mean, it is very possible for a FFB mage to defeat a fire mage if the fire mage really gets unlucky with crits. I've done patchwerk where I casted 15 FFB's in a row, and no crit. This was in a 25 man, and without hot streak, my dmg was gimped.

Arcane is not bad in DPS. I can still top charts(no proof of course) with 4.1k DPS(this is sitting at 2002 spell power). The only problem is that I burn through mana WAY TOO FAST. I may go back FFB simply because it hurts my mana. But I really want to see frost PvE because I miss the water elemental.

[Gleisnir]

How much hit would you need to use that fireball spec?

[aenema]

How much hit would you need to use that fireball spec?

1 post up yuou have your answer.

446 hit needed to be capped

and there is no excuse for any mage not to get hit capped. ever.

[Gleisnir]

lol, hadnt pressed F5 in abit so the post wasnt there

[Nut]

(does imp faerie fire and misery stack?)

I wish it did but it does not.

[bizze]

1 post up yuou have your answer.

446 hit needed to be capped

and there is no excuse for any mage not to get hit capped. ever.

But, you only need about 370 hit raidbuffed(misery or ff that is).

[Malentra]

Truths

On the average case, Arcane (57/3/11 or 51/3/17) and Fireball spec (i.e. 21/50 or 18/53) have comparable dps, close enough that gear, playstyle, raid buffs, encounter, and skill will make far more difference to your dps with the two specs than the actual theoretical numbers.

Suggestions
If you like the Arcane playstyle then I suggest you stick with it, as PvE damage really wasn't hurt that bad in the nerf (2-3%), and its AoE is better than Fireball spec. You have to make sure you manage your rotations to match your mana support but you basically need to hold a ~20k mana deficit over 2 minutes and you're infinitely sustainable. For AoE remember all the blizzard buffs you get with this spec (208% Blizzard crits, 3% crit, 3% dmg, 6% haste, clearcasting/potency, PoM+AP up regularly to use with Flamestrike and Blizzard)

If you don't like the Arcane playstyle, then Fireball has comparable dps (higher in some fights, lower in others), but you'll need to make sure you have enough mana support from the raid to keep it sustainable at your haste rating and fight lengths. Running out of mana with Evoc on cooldown can kill your dps. Definitely a good choice if you need to put up the debuff. and has the typical Frostfire playstyle matched almost exactly with the following differences:
1) more mana hungry
2) higher hit cap (3% higher, so another ~79 hit rating needed than Frostfire)
3) higher crit rate, at least 6% higher with Focus Magic and Glyph of Fireball
4) less RNG dependance due to higher on-paper crit rate, higher hit damage, and lower crit multiplier
5) lower fireball damage on untanked (no TTW debuff) mobs
6) No frost or arcane tree points to boost Blizzard AoE

Frostfire is a decent choice due to its low mana dependency and relatively high average dps with strong AoE. If you dont' have solid mana support from your raid FFB is the go-to alternative to Fireball and Arcane specs.

Frost still sucks. =/