Yea, they are all fair. You can now sit and wait.Originally Posted by Priestgirl09
Originally Posted by Pansa
I dont know if you read my reply to the question that was asked instead of quoting me, but My yes answer was to whether or not lightweave is created by tailors, so you are saying another profession can make this.
If you are saying haste is better than lightweave, you are incorrect. Many direct damage classes benefit from lightweave versus haste. The actual number is 46dps increase from lightweave according to elitestjerks.com who do alot more testing than wowhead.com. If you go to the lock forums on wowhead.com they have discussed this also.
I'm lolling at those who say Haste>Lightweave.
Oh, and people are failing to forget that lightweave scales. If your on Thaddius in the charge, it scales. Malygos power, scales. So on those fights, it goes far far up in DPS.
Which also leads me to think it scales with gear.
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Scaling with gear is possible in addition a locks pet will proc it also.Originally Posted by Lavindathar
Finally we have someone with a brain hereOriginally Posted by Lavindathar
I just looked up the stats on maxdps.com and wowhead.com (I cba to add the links... do it yourself if you want)
Haste - around 14 dps as a constant
Lightweave - a 75 - 100 dps increase dependent on lock of a 45 sec proc, 60% chance to proc. So you gamble on something which I found to proc more often than not (note I looked at FFB mages, desto locks for this as a "direct damage" caster who would likely be a tailor)
For my desto lock... I can get around 550-600 haste on any gear, so getting another 23 seemed boring. Lightweave will - as Lavindathar points out - scale on more damage whereas haste is easily obtained.
Can't say I play a healer but darkweave offers 300 mana as a proc - again seeing as gear is infestated with haste these are an *alternative*
But for Gods sake just suck it up, accept the tailor enchants are good and stop whining. If you want haste fine, if you want to reroll to JC then by all means whine that you can't see anything as guess what everyone did the same. I like my proc off my cloak, I like cheap leg enchants, I like my carpet and I like getting 2-3 stacks of cloth from doing a daily heroic.
End of the day - there are way too many people backing up arguments with anecdotal data with no truth to it, whining. Suck it up, reroll or live with it.
you can "lol" the whole day longOriginally Posted by Lavindathar
as lightweaves dmg only gets increased, because the encounters have all-dmg-increase-buffs
try to hit thaddius or malygos with your staff in melee, while having one of those buffs..
i see you crying something like "omg. casters weapon-dmg scales with the gear. see how it works on thaddius and malygos!!!"
therefor pls give us a favor and dont talk about things you dont understand?
haste enchant someday will go ahead lightweave, because it scales.
and yes. ppl should "whine" as you call it lovely, because else you could remove this profession and many other outbalanced things completely from the game.
maybe we should state our point of view.
my one is pve.
if you chose pvp, lightweave should be a lot better.
Yes, tailoring cloak embroidery is lackluster. As a healer I've gotten rid of darkglow in favor of haste, as mana regen has never remotely been an issue (this may change in 3.1). Lightweave is actually pretty good, but not as impressive as the benefit offered by other professions. I'd expect some mild improvements / new patterns in 3.1, but nothing to make everyone go screaming OMG I have to pick up tailoring.
Not everything is balanced between professions, but deal with it. Currently JC offers the best profession benefit in the game, but that is in large degree due to the fact that epic gems, which will allow those w/o JC to close that gap, have not yet been introduced.
One perk I wouldn't mind seeing with the carpets (and engineering flying mounts as well) is an instant-mount similar to that enjoyed by druids by flight form.
agreed in fact i think instant mounting would be a simple way to make the rug more attractive. Alot of people would be annoyed with a 10% speed boost but i think instant mounting really doesn't much affect things. Regardless of the lightweave/haste argument even assuming lightweave is better its still not a similarly powerful benefit than some other professions enjoy right now.
Mixelphlick 80 Gnome mage
Beetstick 80 Gnome deathknight
PVE..sorry but lightweave is better for direct damage casters versus 23 haste. Many threads, trials, theorycrafters, wws parses support this. Look at it this way does haste help Rain of fire..sure doesn't as many raid bosses have multiple adds that need to be taken down quickly does 23haste help with AOE...nope..but lightweave does and since the damage of adds comes from boss fight it is relevant dps done.Originally Posted by bug
The previous gentleman is correct with scaling with certain aspects of gear...and that would be at least crit percentage. I could not tell you about haste aspect of gear effecting lightweave.
Another plus for lightweave is haste still requires you to cast an extra spell thus consuming mana versus lightweave just adding damage to the spell or melee attack.
I do agree that other professions do enjoy a better benefit than tailoring.Originally Posted by Mixelphlick
Saying lightweave is better than haste or not better shows ignorance when you say it in a very broad scope. It depends on your class and SPECIFIC spec as to which is better. Gear level also plays a huge role here as well. Haste SCALES, the more SP you have the greater the benefit of haste.
If your FFB does on average 6K, haste will have a greater impact than someone whose average FFB is 4k....see. Lightweave DOES NOT scale with gear only quirky boss effects. Haste also can improve some AoE, contrary to what someone else has posted.
dude....Originally Posted by zuxia
1.Originally Posted by celinamunaOriginally Posted by zuxiaOriginally Posted by celinamunalast question "is this the only cloakenchant made by tailors."Originally Posted by zuxia
answer : yes and it is only useable by tailors
this answer is wrong as there are 2 aditional enchants.
realy zux, i hope this was limited to the other thread but DUDE.
additionaly how about some links. after trying to find something related was the dps numbers which varried by quite alot, one guy specificly saying he had a rather high critrate,
and some dudes arguing wether with gearscaling it might get worse fast.
Professions died with the release of the expac, all they are now is a choice of how difficult a grind you want to get your moderate stat increase. Tailoring gives without a doubt the lowest benefit of any profession in terms of stats(along with eng/alchemy) and as a potential money maker. Any bitching about these 3 garbage professions is completely justified.
Would be nice if you could chant your cloak and embroider it at the same time. Then tailoring wouldn't be so bad.
.Originally Posted by Pansa
That you for pointing out that I miss read the question, I appreciate it. O and as far as the other thread...YOU WERE FLAT OUT WRONG, especially since you never could backup what you said with concrete sources, so i suggest you leave it alone.
You ask me of links, I can find them, however make sure you back up your standpoint with the same from here out, since this is the 2nd time you have asked me to prove it. The links I will be providing is relevant to Locks mind you.
There is two of them real quick...you can find more by google search, forum search, or reading elitestjerks.com
I can only think of one spell where it would help an AOE, but the AOE is result of release of the dot and that is warlock seed, I should have stated haste does not benefit channeled aoe spells or instant aoe spells for better clarification.Originally Posted by Thegratefulhead
so the second link has NO information whatsoever, and the first one is heavily discussed, with questionable math.Originally Posted by zuxia
things that seems to be wrongly concidered there ,influence of critrating, gcd reduction aso,
and even there the "dps" at which haste surpasses ranges between 2900 and 4000.
thats quite a margin, let alone the concept of "rotationchange"
thats why i wanted sources, i couldnt find realy good ones, and the certainty with which you stated your opinion needed to be chalanged. and if that kind of sourcework is any indicator....
Originally Posted by zuxiahttp://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patch...patch2p10.htmlSpell Haste: The amount of spell haste rating needed per percentage of haste has been increased substantially. However, spell haste will now affect channeled spells, increasing the rate of their effects and decreasing their total duration. The same amount of damage/healing per casting will occur, but will take less time.
additionaly instant aoes benefit from the gcd reduction.
pls, if you have almost NO idea how things work, why would you want to tell people how they do? yes all those things emhance dps for additional manacosts but they get increased dps nontheless.
so in essence, different specs and classes benefit differently, and since they additionaly benefit differently from haste in generall its quite difficult to evaluate the real value in generell,
it MIGHT surpase haste especialy at lower gear levels, but the benefit is neglectable compared to the loss of not choosing almost any other profession.
And since this is a topic about the usefullness of tailoring, this is the relevant information.
that its actualy arguable that at rising gearlevels haste will surpass lightweave, and even if that state isnt reached yet, that this difference in no way changes the actual usefullnes of tailoring.
and than theres
claiming that it doesnt proc of dots.. no idea if its true.
It does not proc off dots. I understand how haste works ty very much. The second thread was put there if you wanted to look at another class opinion also. I did a quick check for information and posted accordingly.Originally Posted by Pansa
If you want more information, I suggest you go look at elistestjerks.com.
Have I discussed anything but direct damage spell casters..nope. SO maybe you should stick to that instead of throwing everything in, which you are know to do, which does make alot of your "ideas" invalid and I have shown time and time again with you that you add things that are not there or I have not disputed. Just to prove a point I quote myself "PVE..sorry but lightweave is better for direct damage casters versus 23 haste."
Couple posts back.
Edit: some spelling
Edit: As someone else has already stated go to maxdps.com in addition to elistjerks.com
Also go look at the various classes and specs if you want to argue the point. From a clothie/Lock class..I say class because that is where, regardless of spec (until 3.1), lightweave is better for the class versus haste.
If you want to go argue with the versed theorycrafters on the warlock forums about their math, be my guest.
Edit: There are 3 different links now concerning lightweave if you want more I recommend you go over to elitistjerks.com and read all of the posts. In addition if you want to continue to debate post your sources besides a single thread discussion and if you want to question math of the theorycrafters either post your own math to dispute their claim or argue with them about their math because I will not argue with you about the math.
I think the main point is that every other producing profession has a clear benefit. There is no guesswork with JC, you know exactly the benefit. It's not based on class, gear, etc. and it is a big enough benefit that you can see a difference. Tailoring has no flat DPS benefit that you can always count on. If they would simply add in a thread that adds Spellpower there would be no discussion and a reduction in DPS caster tears.
to: preposition; used as a function word to indicate position, connection, extent, relation ~ too: adverb; also, very, excessively, so