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  1. #41
    Epic! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    Missing a 3 minute shadowfiend and 15% mana cost reduction on most of your spells for MANA BURN? This is a PvE build, not PvP.


    Apparently you missed the entire previous post before this.

    "Now that leaves a whole lot of stuff open for you to play with depending on what you want to achieve with your priest. Some like the option of silence while others go for Blackout or Imp SF or even Psychic Horror or even dabble in Mental Agility (disc) or Imp Mana Burn (disc) for the pvp aspect they provide."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    And once you go to Ulduar, fights aren't gonna be the lol3 minute crap we were pulling in High King Maulgar back at 70
    First, I'm not just talking about BC fights when I say 3 minutes. The majority of Naxx fights are well under 5 minutes with most being just under 3 minutes or a little more than that. The only fight now where I use my shadowfiend more than once in a fight is on 3d and Thad. On Thad I use my shadowfiend just as we engage and pop our first BL and then a second time if we have a second BL which typically we don't get but some times we do so I get to use it again. When we do 3d I do get to use my shadowfiend on the first drake and then again when we've down the others & go back to Sarth. Fights like KT that do last longer I don't use it more than the one time simply because when you actually engage the boss gives you a fight that is less than 6 minutes long (you know 6 minutes being the time for double shadowfiend based on 2 points to lower the CD). Maybe your guild takes forever to down bosses because you're bad but even pug groups I've taken my shaman alt into still don't last the 6 minutes it would be to justify having the talent.

  2. #42

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    Apparently you missed the entire previous post before this.

    "Now that leaves a whole lot of stuff open for you to play with depending on what you want to achieve with your priest. Some like the option of silence while others go for Blackout or Imp SF or even Psychic Horror or even dabble in Mental Agility (disc) or Imp Mana Burn (disc) for the pvp aspect they provide."

    First, I'm not just talking about BC fights when I say 3 minutes. The majority of Naxx fights are well under 5 minutes with most being just under 3 minutes or a little more than that. The only fight now where I use my shadowfiend more than once in a fight is on 3d and Thad. On Thad I use my shadowfiend just as we engage and pop our first BL and then a second time if we have a second BL which typically we don't get but some times we do so I get to use it again. When we do 3d I do get to use my shadowfiend on the first drake and then again when we've down the others & go back to Sarth. Fights like KT that do last longer I don't use it more than the one time simply because when you actually engage the boss gives you a fight that is less than 6 minutes long (you know 6 minutes being the time for double shadowfiend based on 2 points to lower the CD). Maybe your guild takes forever to down bosses because you're bad but even pug groups I've taken my shaman alt into still don't last the 6 minutes it would be to justify having the talent.

    You are assuming that the OP, or the person arguing with you is in a guild that does full clear runs every week. Yes, the content is easy compared to BC, and Yes, even pugs can full clear it. But that doesn't mean they can plow through it on their first night of every attempting a raid. Improved shadowfiend is a great talent simply because on those nights that things don't go well, you have something to keep you up. I don't really need the talent either, but I keep it simply because if worse comes to worse, it means I don't have to drink during trash pulls. It's not a needed talent, but it is a heck of a lot better than the alternatives.

    And reducing the cost of your spells is a great thing to do if you are just starting out. Our gear and regen is built around Crit and spirit. When someone is just entering naxx, most of their blues will be based around Hit and spellpower because that is what is available. Until they start getting that higher tier of gear, the reduced mana cost is a huge boon to their dps.

    And as for Improved shadowform:
    -MC at instructor
    -sapp aoe damage
    -Random and channeled damage in OS
    -Frostbolts on Kel
    -And whatever is brought in 3.1
    -the pvp aspect. what good is getting improved mana burn if you don't have spell pushback resistance? not to mention the removal of snares can help (though it still needs to be tweaked)

    So yes, if you run with the perfect group, and you're decked out in all Heroic Raid gear, then "of course" you don't need talents like improved shadowform, or focused mind. If you are, like the OP stated, a fresh shadowpriest, it would be wise to take them.

  3. #43
    Epic! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Instead of random quotes, I just copied most of your post & am replying in its spot in bold

    Improved shadowfiend is a great talent simply because on those nights that things don't go well, you have something to keep you up. Most bosses in Naxx have an enrage timer that allows for 2 shadowfiends at the most even if you're not spec'd into the lower CD. If something that lasts as as it does short every few minutes is the breaking point on downing a boss then you have then your raid has more things to worry about than if you can pop out another shadowfiend or not


    And reducing the cost of your spells is a great thing to do if you are just starting out. Our gear and regen is built around Crit and spirit. When someone is just entering naxx, most of their blues will be based around Hit and spellpower because that is what is available. Until they start getting that higher tier of gear, the reduced mana cost is a huge boon to their dps. I never said NOT to get this talent just that its optional based on your gear, raid, etc etc. With the cookie cutter build he has enough points to pick this up along with lots of other things most spriests think are absolute must haves when in reality they're not.

    And as for Improved shadowform:
    -MC at instructor MC lasts 1 minute at the most & on that fight you should be switching targets every 25-30 seconds which means even if you get hit it won't knock your channel down over 1/2 the bar so that's a completely invalid arguement
    -sapp aoe damage The AOE dmg Sapp does happens every 1 second (frost aura dmg) or randomly that you have to move out of anyway (blizzard...even a shitty GM will tell you to get the fuck out of blizzard if you're standing in it)
    -Random and channeled damage in OS OS has CHANNELED dmg? As for the random dmg that's well random and doesn't hit you more than once during a mindflay if you even get hit at all during one
    -Frostbolts on Kel Frostbolts can be resisted from a pally frost aura or shaman frost resist totem & the 45% pushback reduction from Conc Aura (55% from imp Conc Aura) not only doesn't stack with Imp SF but is more than enough for pushback from mindflay
    -And whatever is brought in 3.1 True, we don't know what 3.1 & Ulduar will bring but I highly doubt there will be massive AOE dmg that requires pushback reduction since there hasn't been anything other than Hex Lord that I can think of where it would be useful
    -the pvp aspect. what good is getting improved mana burn if you don't have spell pushback resistance? I already stated how there is the pvp aspect to the talent & reasons behind it some priests get it. As for the pve aspect, there isn't any.

    So yes, if you run with the perfect group, and you're decked out in all Heroic Raid gear, then "of course" you don't need talents like improved shadowform, or focused mind. If you are, like the OP stated, a fresh shadowpriest, it would be wise to take them. Again, I never said for him NOT to pick them up just that they were optional from the cookie cutter build & things he can concider to get or leave out. Would I suggest a spriest that is just starting out to get them? Hell yes I would...well focused mind I would but not improved shadowform.

  4. #44

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausagefan
    Shadow Affinity = find new tanks.

    There's absolutely no application for it - anywhere. Pushback actually happens to me - running with shit tanks doesn't.
    I disagree sir. Just try AoEing adds on Sarth3D with Shadow Affinity. Then try it without Shadow Affinity, using the same tanks. On a fight where Shadowpriests are pulling massive damage, and where DPS needs to be at it's highest, Shadow Affinity is very useful here.

  5. #45

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Almightyone
    I disagree sir. Just try AoEing adds on Sarth3D with Shadow Affinity. Then try it without Shadow Affinity, using the same tanks. On a fight where Shadowpriests are pulling massive damage, and where DPS needs to be at it's highest, Shadow Affinity is very useful here.
    Shadow Affinity isn't really required unless your tank isn't good enough (skill / gear). Also, Shadow Affinity won't help you if you pull aggro before tank does. Of course I say this based on my own experiences. Your mileage may vary depending on raid setup and gear. I haven't used SA since TBC and obviously if I'm having threat problems (AOE or Single Target), I'd be specced into it.
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  6. #46

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    I'm not saying I'm dying due to aggro problems, but I'm losing DPS. If a new add pops up before I AoE, the tank will have low threat. There will never be a circumstance on that fight where the tank is going to have ideal aggro on every add all the time. Sure I can fade when I pull off the tank and my aggro problem is solved. The real problem is, that I've just lost 1 GCD of DPS time. If I'm spending 1.3s Fading out of every 24, I'm losing over 5% DPS.

  7. #47

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    You're right, if you have to use fade because you pulled aggro off tank then you lose DPS, but that shouldn't happen in the first place. It really depends on raid setup and gear. I can't pull aggro of our tank even if I tried, and this is with 0 talents in SA. I still find fade useful for preemptive purposes, like for bosses with flight phases or AOEing.
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  8. #48
    Epic! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexione
    You're right, if you have to use fade because you pulled aggro off tank then you lose DPS, but that shouldn't happen in the first place. It really depends on raid setup and gear. I can't pull aggro of our tank even if I tried, and this is with 0 talents in SA. I still find fade useful for preemptive purposes, like for bosses with flight phases or AOEing.
    I would really love to see the armory for many of these people giving advice on how they don't pull threat & they don't have even 1 point in SA.

  9. #49

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    I'm not sure about the gear level we're talking about, but when I'm pulling over 6k DPS on Sarth3D, I need all the threat reduction that I can get.

  10. #50

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    I would really love to see the armory for many of these people giving advice on how they don't pull threat & they don't have even 1 point in SA.
    I'm speaking out of experience. If you want to armory me, I'm on Stormscale (I know I don't have the best gear!):P I'm familiar with our tank's capabilities though, so that's probably why I feel comfortable and have no threat problems even without SA, you know what I mean? If I were to raid with a PUG tank, of course things might be different.

    In case you're wondering our MT for heroic Naxx / Maly is a bear druid, for Sarth with 2D/3D it depends on the raid makeup. Did 11-12k AOE dps (lol spider wing) this week on some aoe pulls and didn't really have a problem as long as I pre-Fade. Single target threat is a non-issue. Even back when we had the Misery glitch which lasted 2 days, with Mind Flay critting for 8-10k I was still below our mages in threat.

    I guess the bottom line is it really depends on who you raid with.
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  11. #51

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcb0hZZG0fVofzciqfzAo



    the remaining 5 points are left up to your discretion. personally, i put them into veiled shadows and silence.

  12. #52

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...erspine&n=Zast

    Is what I run with. The IF in starting rotation gets those nice crit based procs up early, so it's really not worth skipping. The points in imp ve. could be put elsewhere, but where are you honestly going to put them? SA? Sure. If you're bad at using fade, that is. Everything else is imo mandatory.

  13. #53
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    quote madness inc. need to tear some posts apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Incorrect

    Fade sets your threat to 0, you still generate threat but your threat is set to 0 for the duration of the fade effect. When the effect ends, all the threat you generated is applied to you instantly and this is a massive difference to what you described above.
    People should to use wowhead.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=586

    Effect: Apply Aura: Mod Total Threat (Fade)
    Value: -90000000

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    Most bosses in Naxx have an enrage timer that allows for 2 shadowfiends at the most even if you're not spec'd into the lower CD.
    You use the first shadowfiend the second you reach 70% mana. And it'll be up again 3 minutes later, very usefull for a fight like Kel'thuzad where several mana burns can hurt alot.

    And bosses in Naxxramas doesn't matter in the big picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    I never said NOT to get this talent just that its optional based on your gear, raid, etc etc. With the cookie cutter build he has enough points to pick this up along with lots of other things most spriests think are absolute must haves when in reality they're not.
    You talk like mana won't ever be a issue again. I recommend you put some time into reading the latest post about it by the Blizzard developers.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    True, we don't know what 3.1 & Ulduar will bring but I highly doubt there will be massive AOE dmg that requires pushback reduction since there hasn't been anything other than Hex Lord that I can think of where it would be useful
    Then I could give you the reason that there is nothing better to put your points in. Two points in it saves you 2-3 mind flays on a boss is better than getting something as useless as Mana Burn.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    Again, I never said for him NOT to pick them up just that they were optional from the cookie cutter build & things he can concider to get or leave out. Would I suggest a spriest that is just starting out to get them? Hell yes I would...well focused mind I would but not improved shadowform.
    You said alot of bullshit that doesn't make sense, stinks of being carried by your guild, which apparently got really bad tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    What the moron who was talking about Imp SF doesn't know is that in pve setting you shouldn't be sitting in fuckin AOE to begin with.
    'sup mr. casual, having fun getting boosted by your guild? Never experienced any proper pushback fight have we.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    For people like me, when I had 3 points in the talent I would never go below 90% mana unless replinishment was off me for some reason which never seems to be the case & why I removed it from my build too and still don't go below 75% mana on any boss fight or trash.
    Try do proper dps then, instead of pulling out numbers of your arse. If you use more abilities than Mind Flay, your mana won't be replenish itself only with replenishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    Shadow Affinity is an optional talent that is normally recommended for spriests so that they can go all out without having to worry at all about threat. Personally I can be top 3 on dmg meters & dps without ever coming close to the tank or ever having to fade at all (infact I've removed fade from my toolbar because I haven't used it since 3.0 came out).
    Thread reduction is not needed with proper tanks.

    And if you don't utilize the removal of movement imparting effects though shadowform, you're god damn stupid. But then again, you clearly never experienced a dungeon boss where that was a issue, getting boosted by your guild though the introduction dungeons.

    Try Kil'jaeden in Sunwell Plateau, even at level 80, you might learn something.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    Veiled Shadows has nothing put in it because the only reason you get it is for the lowered CD on your shadowfiend. The majority of boss fights don't last more than 3 minutes so that's why its concidered a wasted talent since the fade portion is useless.
    The bossfights that matters last long, and your spec would be completely useless in Ulduar.

    You're a useless loltroll who got absolutely no clue about raiding. You might do high numbers while getting carried by your guild in the current content, but it won't do you no good in Ulduar or Icecrown.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    I would really love to see the armory for many of these people giving advice on how they don't pull threat & they don't have even 1 point in SA.
    Be my guest, http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...hwing&n=Nezoia

    The point is merely there since I dislike Inner Focus. Now your turn, show me your armoury so I can laugh at your achievement tab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almightyone
    I'm not sure about the gear level we're talking about, but when I'm pulling over 6k DPS on Sarth3D, I need all the threat reduction that I can get.
    That would be AoE threat on the whelps, and not on the dragons. Try pre-emptive fade when you're about to AoE, it really really helps alot. There's no chance in hell the whelps will attack you for roughly 10 seconds, enough time to get the adds.

  14. #54
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    And the two PROPER cookie cutter builds, well accepted by the community.

    14/0/57 - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbzhZZG0fVRfzfiqfzAo
    Classical shadow with improved Vampiric Embrace.

    13/0/58 - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbzhZZGMfVRfzciqfzAo
    Classical shadow with 2/3 Shadow Affinity, rather than Improved VE.

    There is 3 free points so to say, without all the NESSARY talents, the build would be the following:

    13/0/55 - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcb0hZZG0fVRfzciqfzAo
    3 free points to put where you like, the other talents is NESSARY for serious progress raiding.

  15. #55

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    14/0/57 - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbzhZZGMfVRfzciqfzAo
    Classical shadow with 2/3 Shadow Affinity, rather than Improved VE.
    Fix'd

  16. #56
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Yes, I noticed the link was wrong and updated it

  17. #57

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77
    I would really love to see the armory for many of these people giving advice on how they don't pull threat & they don't have even 1 point in SA.
    I'm using exact same build as Nezoia, and I have never, EVER pulled aggro in current content. Seems to me like your guild's full of scrub tanks.

  18. #58

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Move the wasted point in Show Affinity to Inner Focus (which granted isn't the best talent as compared to other clear casting talents but is still better than Shadow Affinity). As far as glyphs, I don't see why you would use the MF glyph if you are already specced for increase shadow range. I would use glyph of death instead.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  19. #59

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldlayne
    Don't use Imp Shadowform for pve please.
    Improved shadow form is actually a very useful pve talent. You are assuming you will never take damage on any fight and that is simply not the case. A good deal of our damage is channeled so we feel aoe damage a lot more than any other class. ISF helps us to avoid those losses in damage.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  20. #60

    Re: Shadow priest PVE build

    Quote Originally Posted by fl4shi
    I use this spec just cause i love to have silence
    and i never use VE since i think its a GCD wasted. (if it wasn't chained with Shadowform i wouldn't skill it)
    Go roll a warlock. Seriously. You have to be the most scrub spriest ever. That ve is what makes us different than warlocks. Warlocks do more damage than we do, but we heal with all damage done. You are an idiot if you think that VE is just a waste of a gcd. L2play your class. Unless of course you were joking and are really trying to just make us call you stupid.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

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