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  1. #1

    Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Is there some kind of bug thats causing SPs to out DPS pure DPS classes on pure nuke 'em fights or are SPs a little OP atm?

    I am in a guild that does 25man raiding, and we are all pretty much geared to the max now and its quite clear that SPs can out DPS warlocks, hunters, rogues and mages in a pure nuke (1 boss, no adds) environment at high end gear level (well, as high end as we can get atm).

    Now, I'm not sure about any issues with classes like mages or locks that would hold them back, though I know rogues have a few issues that blizzard is sorting and have heard that hunters were nerfed too much or something. But when the "hardcore" pure DPS class players of the guild that really know their classes and learn how to push the character they play get most out of it are getting out DPSed by a hybrid class on a pure nuke fight then I see something is wrong.

    From past raiding experience with SPs I know that there are a lot of SPs that do not reach anywhere near the potential DPS they could achieve, and know there is quite a bit of skill needed to be a good SP, as our guild has had a fair share of both (not just with SPs but with most classes).

    Now I know a lot of people out there will suddenly probably stand up now I have posted this and shout "no, we should be top DPS", but thats not true and as a hybrid with an equal skilled range of people (though ofc hard to achieve) SPs should (like other hybrids) be 5% less DPS than the pure DPS classes, as intended by blizzard.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?

  2. #2

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    i cant tell you what makes them this way but i can share the same situation. In our guild we have 1 SP thats always on the top3.

  3. #3

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    so top 3 makes us op? nah imo were still underpowered and if the spriest in your guild is always top dps then he is doing his job correct , but the rest of your guilds dps is slacking. thereis a link in one of the other threads for the wowmeters that shows spriests arent top dps , were like 6th, which imo is underpowered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctadrew
    I have never used this response, but it seems perfect here...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew

  4. #4

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty
    so top 3 makes us op? nah imo were still underpowered and if the spriest in your guild is always top dps then he is doing his job correct , but the rest of your guilds dps is slacking. thereis a link in one of the other threads for the wowmeters that shows spriests arent top dps , were like 6th, which imo is underpowered.
    So because 1 or 2 damage meters dont show a spriest on top they arent overpowered?
    They definetly are op atm when they are played by good players they seem to be able to top almost any meter. This thread is legit and i agree with it. Specially mindsear being able to do nearly 20k dps on big aoe trash pulls I bet blizzard will find a suitable nerf soon but i hope them priests are enjoying their run atm

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    If your mages, warlocks, fury warriors and DKs are regularly outdamaged by shadowpriests, there is one simple conclusion to make:

    THEY CAN'T PLAY THEIR CLASSES WHILE THE SHADOWPRIESTS DO.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  6. #6

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Here's the top US Horde guild on patchwerk. - http://wowwebstats.com/z63hffkasapom?s=355878-381266

    Shadow is alot better then it used to be but it's still not anywhere close to the pure dps classes when properly geared & played.


  7. #7

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Nobody cares about trash... I can see that SPs are quite strong on trash-aoe pulls due to their mindsear, but as I said, nobody cares, cause in the current instances trash is just a joke.

    Ulduar is supposed to have tougher trash that needs to be cc'ed, etc, so again, so-called "overpowered" trash-DPS is the least of my concerns.

    Now if shadowpriests at equivalent gear levels consistently out-DPS your pure DPS classes, there is only two possibilities:

    1. Your other DPS classes suck at what they're doing; compare overall dmg done in bossfights with other (top) guilds on wws and see what DPS they're doing, then judge

    2. They are in fact overpowered (I have no clue if they are). But that alone cannot give you a solution. Again, look through the WWS stats, tell us, where most of their dmg comes from, then analyze why and how it could be fixed without breaking the class.

    But well, this is going to be pulled into a "l2p, noobs!" epeen thing where SPs blindly defend their position and pure DPS classes blindly say "nurf!". It's not possible to have a well-founded discussion here with all the "I wanna be OP"-kiddies around.

  8. #8

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    tbh i wouldnt trust that wws to tell you anything significant. You'll notice that they only brought 2 healers to the raid, as well as them all being imba geared and skilled - all means that the fight is very short, which means that bloodlust is up for a greater portion of the fight than would be the case on any progress, so the classes which benefit the most from bloodlust are ofc at the top (not to mention that with so few spells cast RNG plays a significant part in the dps).

  9. #9

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    No we arent OP...

    There are some fight we can be top3... Malygos for instance.

    But a properly played Warlock will outdps us everywhere..

    And in Fights like patchwork, Mages/DW DKs and Hunter are always above Shadows...

    Rogues are underpowered but Blizzard does know that..

    We are quite fine in PvE and massive underpowered in PvP..

  10. #10

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    i havent heared RET PALADINS once in this thread for doing awesome dmg

    ffs

    WHERE DID ALL THE QQ GO ABOUT ret paladins go?

  11. #11

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    öö wasnt that PvP QQ?

  12. #12

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by morriso
    Is there some kind of bug thats causing SPs to out DPS pure DPS classes on pure nuke 'em fights or are SPs a little OP atm?

    I am in a guild that does 25man raiding, and we are all pretty much geared to the max now and its quite clear that SPs can out DPS warlocks, hunters, rogues and mages in a pure nuke (1 boss, no adds) environment at high end gear level (well, as high end as we can get atm).

    Now, I'm not sure about any issues with classes like mages or locks that would hold them back, though I know rogues have a few issues that blizzard is sorting and have heard that hunters were nerfed too much or something. But when the "hardcore" pure DPS class players of the guild that really know their classes and learn how to push the character they play get most out of it are getting out DPSed by a hybrid class on a pure nuke fight then I see something is wrong.

    From past raiding experience with SPs I know that there are a lot of SPs that do not reach anywhere near the potential DPS they could achieve, and know there is quite a bit of skill needed to be a good SP, as our guild has had a fair share of both (not just with SPs but with most classes).

    Now I know a lot of people out there will suddenly probably stand up now I have posted this and shout "no, we should be top DPS", but thats not true and as a hybrid with an equal skilled range of people (though ofc hard to achieve) SPs should (like other hybrids) be 5% less DPS than the pure DPS classes, as intended by blizzard.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?
    Yea you carnt say this mate

    you carnt say that other raiders in your raid have the same skill as the shadow priest.. even though the other mages hunters rogue warlocks might be PRO we just dont know that do we?

  13. #13

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    SP can't out dps hunters, mages, Warlocks, DK's, Retri pallys, (oomkins now).

    As single target DPS they aren't far behind, but they are honestly anything but OP, although if there any multiple adds involved then things change.

    A SP at this point CAN compete in the good ole dmg meters, and they can top it as well in single target fights given that..

    The SP has the most understanding of his class then anyone else or;
    The SP is the best geared DPS in the raid;
    Other DPSers didn't try as hard for one reason or another;


    Hi

  14. #14

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Niveypew
    Here's the top US Horde guild on patchwerk. - http://wowwebstats.com/z63hffkasapom?s=355878-381266

    Shadow is alot better then it used to be but it's still not anywhere close to the pure dps classes when properly geared & played.
    keeping in mind what Toranshalur pointed out...
    Quote Originally Posted by Toranshalur
    tbh i wouldnt trust that wws to tell you anything significant. You'll notice that they only brought 2 healers to the raid, as well as them all being imba geared and skilled - all means that the fight is very short, which means that bloodlust is up for a greater portion of the fight than would be the case on any progress, so the classes which benefit the most from bloodlust are ofc at the top (not to mention that with so few spells cast RNG plays a significant part in the dps).
    ...I looked at the WWS reports for the same guys on fights that lasted more than about 1:39min...

    http://wowwebstats.com/nlumxwwlvmgv1?s=57171-87143 (just before last patch - wasnt mages nerfed after this patch? and rogues lost the HaT bug)

    http://wowwebstats.com/uplhuxrtqb45i?s=175233-208730 (an alt run of theirs a few days ago)

    But maybe most of their DPS just suck, Just cuz they are top US horde guild ofc doesnt mean they are all equal skilled Based on what a lot of people have replied I can only assume that some are saying most of this guild need to learn to play their classes.

  15. #15

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Spriests are capping around the 5K dps mark (give or take)... there are plenty of other classes (particularly classes that benefit greatly from haste ie. Bloodlust/heroism) exceeding 6K dps.

    That's not to say that spriest dps is poor... I can top dps occasionally for my guild but it's becomming apparently clear that our fury warrior, enhance shaman, mages and locks all have the capability to best me (assuming the conditions of the encounter dont hinder them).

    So no, we are not OP... I don't see spriests as the number 1 dps class in the game but that doesnt bother me either. I do feel that we benefit from haste poorly and if anything perhaps that could be looked at... you can particularly see how haste benefits other classes far more than us in short encounters (sub 3min patchwerk for example) where bloodlust/heroism had a high percentage of up time (ie. 40 sec in 160 sec means a 25% up time), you will find spriests can't keep up with many other classes.

  16. #16

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by massivenoob
    Yea you carnt say this mate

    you carnt say that other raiders in your raid have the same skill as the shadow priest.. even though the other mages hunters rogue warlocks might be PRO we just dont know that do we?
    Well tbh nothing anyone links or says is 100% as there are so many factors involved in it all... but when you raid with the same people for years trhough all raid content and all of a sudden (though I waited til we were all basically geared up to a high level to compare properly) SPs are out DPSing most pure DPS and Hybrids then you obviously question it. But logic would assume that SPs are bugged or OP rather than everyone else has suddently forgot how to play.

    thats the point of my original question, to gather more information and ask other views.

    You cant honestly say that statements like....
    Quote Originally Posted by RoseRed
    SP can't out dps hunters, mages, Warlocks, DK's, Retri pallys, (oomkins now).
    ... are correct.

    You seriously have issues out DPSing all these classes/specs in an add-free boss environment?

  17. #17

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    I personally think that we shadow priest are there on the dps which we should be right now, we're not intended to be a pure DPS class, as blizz just stated recently they wanna make repleshiment feel like a mendatory in a raid, and that is what we bring (+ some nice AoE in my opinion), together with paladins and hunters, and that's is maybe where I find it unbalanced since they actually can do more dps than we Shadow Priests right now, and both of their AoE aint bad either.
    So in the end I'd actually like to see a small DPS increase with the shadow priests, well it might come with the PvP buff blizz are saying we'll get in 3.1.

    EDIT: I'm always 2nd or 3th on overall in Naxx, but only because if Mind Sear which is atleast 50% of my overall damage, and let's be honest, targeting a mob and clicking 1 skill each 5th second requires 0 skills.

  18. #18

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Spriests are capping around the 5K dps mark (give or take)
    No - absolutely not. We had 2 SPs around 6k dps last night on Patchwerk.

    It sucks doing 5300 DPS and being #6 haha.


    Back on the real topic - I don't think SPs are OP. They are in good shape, and they can be beaten, or beat. Thats how it should work. And besides, its nice having someone to compete with on meaningless trash damage.

  19. #19

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elektrik
    No - absolutely not. We had 2 SPs around 6k dps last night on Patchwerk.

    It sucks doing 5300 DPS and being #6 haha.


    Back on the real topic - I don't think SPs are OP. They are in good shape, and they can be beaten, or beat. Thats how it should work. And besides, its nice having someone to compete with on meaningless trash damage.

    omg.... when do people understand wws? im sure that was a <2min Kill or something like this. I saw WWS where People hit nearly 10k dps.... but then u sucked with 5.3K Dps

  20. #20

    Re: Are SPs OP in PVE?

    Because I said I'm amazing and I do a ton of DPS? Wait, no I didn't.

    I'll come down to your level for you. omg.... when do people Understand simple quotes? im Sure that i was responding To someone who said spriests Cap at 5k dps.... but then u sucked At simple comprehension.

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