Arena system, where's the fix?

[Balduvian]

Okay, I know there have been more topics about this, but I just want to share it with someone. So flame me if you want, and show us you're a dick

So, my Feral Druid dinged 80 2 weeks ago, a druid m8 also dinged 80 1 week ago. Now we've started arena, we know we would suck with our full green/blue ''just-lvl-80-gear'' but I've done that before. Everytime I just dinged 80 ( or 70 back in TBC ) I started playing arena immediatelly, just to get some quick points, hovering on 1400-1450 always at the start.

Now back to my point. I like how the new system works when I play my Hunter, it meassures skill fine imo. But on my Druid, I've played 25 games, lost 15, won 10. With the previous system this would mean a rating around 1420-1430. Now I've got my rating somewhere in the 1180's or so. That means we lost ~320 rating in 5 games...? lol. I know it will be better after 50-60 games, but I just don't want to be on a 1200 rating every time I start a new team to get back to the 1700's later again...

These numbers are exactly what happened to me in 5 games: won 4, lost 1 and gained +3, +4, +3, +5, -28 rating :-X

Im prolly the 1,000,000th whiner about this, but come on, it's ridiciolous....

[Deleted]

You lost the rating, you're a bad players, you deserve the rating. There has to be 1000 rated people to counter the 2000 rated ones you know, and the terribad ones are the ones going down.

[Vallos]

I'm not a fan of the new system, either. I just don't get it, which could cause some of my dislike. But it seems like you'd need to play a huge quantity of games to normalize your score with your partner's, and I just don't have the time to sit down and grind out 400 games/week.

[Balduvian]

You lost the rating, you're a bad players, you deserve the rating. There has to be 1000 rated people to counter the 2000 rated ones you know, and the terribad ones are the ones going down.

Delete your post, read mine again, give a decent comment. As I mentioned, go ahead and flame me, show us you're a dickhead.

We played in full greens/blues (down to 200 resi max), first arena experience with that setup/specc/class, we won 10, lost 15. No problem..

WITH A NORMAL system that is. We lost 320 rating in 5 games, which means we lost 64 rating per fucking game in average. I'm on 1650-1700 ratings normally, which isn't great at all. But you can't tell me I'm a bad player (LOLDK).

Just fuck off till you get some decent replies.


I'm sorry for talking like this, but you can't just hop in and show us you're a dick and be all rude and arrogant while you don't even have a reason for it. I'm sure you are a little 13 y.o boy with no friends playing WoW 24/7 but hey..np. Btw, I just acted like a dickhead myself, but people giving a reply like that deserve to be handled the same way...

[Lagspike]

I do feel that the new system is a good idea, but it doesn't work greatly. Me and my partner have played lots of games, and we find ourself coming up against lower rated teams all the time, despite winning more games. We have won 10 more than lost, yet we have less rating than we did the previous week? What is the point?

I still think the old system was better. I dislike the fact that "luck" is factored a fair bit into it. For example, your come up against a lower rated team who are the anti-combo to yours in 2v2. You lose, and you lose LOADS of points (-20 to 30). You might even come up against them again and lose again. And then you might come up across a team waaaaay higher rating than yours and win, you get loads of points. So I think that luck is a bit of an issue here, although I am by no means saying this is the biggest factor in arena to win/lose.

[Athor]

Delete your post, read mine again, give a decent comment. As I mentioned, go ahead and flame me, show us you're a dickhead.

We played in full greens/blues (down to 200 resi max), first arena experience with that setup/specc/class, we won 10, lost 15. No problem..

WITH A NORMAL system that is. We lost 320 rating in 5 games, which means we lost 64 rating per fucking game in average. I'm on 1650-1700 ratings normally, which isn't great at all. But you can't tell me I'm a bad player (LOLDK).

Just fuck off till you get some decent replies.


I'm sorry for talking like this, but you can't just hop in and show us you're a dick and be all rude and arrogant while you don't even have a reason for it. I'm sure you are a little 13 y.o boy with no friends playing WoW 24/7 but hey..np. Btw, I just acted like a dickhead myself, but people giving a reply like that deserve to be handled the same way...

If you dont get it you dont have to call people who do get it a dickhead. It took me all of the 30 secs to figure out the new system.

Basically the old system you would ahev played against 1500 rate dplayers, ie brand new teams. They could be gladiators making a new team or scrubs who are just doign 10 games for points.

Now u play against people who are matched with your hidden rating. So even tho yoru rating says 1500, your hidden rating says 1200, so your playgin against 1200 rated people, ie very bad players. Now if you manage to lose aginst very bad players you are yourself a very bad player or very unlucky. Either way you dont deserve to be at the rating you keep resetting it to.

This was to stop people from resetting teams every week and it means new teams dont have to join where there much better players nuking there way up to 2k rating and ruiingin eveyrone else from getting to high ratings. I know alot of players all thru season 1-4 who would get the best weps and gear, then keep resetting there team to pwn noobs,as they called it, in the 1500-2k rating. Now people only play people of a similar skill level, and if you lose to them, you are ment to be below there rating. which might be very low indeed

[smartAXE]

I'm sorry for talking like this, but you can't just hop in and show us you're a dick and be all rude and arrogant while you don't even have a reason for it. I'm sure you are a little 13 y.o boy with no friends playing WoW 24/7 but hey..np. Btw, I just acted like a dickhead myself, but people giving a reply like that deserve to be handled the same way...

thats right where they fixed it

oh wait..

[Shibumi]

Actually its working like it's supposed to be. No offense intended, but the current system attempts to match you with like-skilled people. The way it figures that out is through the hidden rating. In otherwords, since you just started out it will rate you against other 1500 hidden rating type people. Then if you lose that game, the team will only lose a little rating since you guys were "skilled the same". Now, it'll try to rate you against say a 1450-1475 skilled team. If you lose again, you're going to start losing massive rating in order for it compensate to what it thinks is your current skill rating. The more games you lose to lower hidden rating teams the more massive the hits are going to be on your rating.

Likewise, if you're being matched up with super high hidden ratings, you'll lose little but gain a lot.

What i'm saying is, and I really dont' mean to offend you... you lost most of your games to much lower hidden rating teams than you won.

[napaZ]

The new system is good and blows d at the same time. I like how they have the whole hidden rating and what not but I believe you should lose 20 points when you lose a game, why cant you have the hidden rating play against teams with the same hidden raiting but when you lose you lose around the same ballpark number as you would gain for winning (5-10 for winning and -5 to 10 for losing) or just go back to playing teams that are in the same rating ballpark(not hidden rating) whats wrong with good players selling themselves to help others out (if your good enough you should be able to do this just like a good guild who is able to sell gear and runs) so what if good players make new teams and face roll if this was the case they would face roll people through the 1500's then the 1600's that should go quick for them then bad players wouldn't have to worry about them after they got out of the 1600's people would just play within their same bracket (1500-1599)(1600-1699)(1700-1799)(1800-1899(1900-1999)(2k+) why cant this happen?

[bovaja]

The new rating system is kind of retarded.

It basically says this : OK , You can do arena now and drop drastically becouse your gear is shit , and get some quick points.

Or : Don't even think about doing arena's before you have all the gear you need. else you will have a severe disadvantage when you want to start up again...

it doesn't make sense...

AT LEAST allow them to "reset" the rating , but as said in s6 they will change it so everyone starts at 1000 , and 1000 would be the reset point so you cant go lower then that (what i understood)

[Balduvian]

If you dont get it you dont have to call people who do get it a dickhead. It took me all of the 30 secs to figure out the new system.

Basically the old system you would ahev played against 1500 rate dplayers, ie brand new teams. They could be gladiators making a new team or scrubs who are just doign 10 games for points.

Now u play against people who are matched with your hidden rating. So even tho yoru rating says 1500, your hidden rating says 1200, so your playgin against 1200 rated people, ie very bad players.

It's not that I don't get the system, and I don't even really hate it. I enjoy it on my Hunter, but in the first few games it's just retarded, losing 30 rating when you lose and winning 3 is just bullshit.

Also, how can my ''hidden rating'' be 1200? Read again...I said, I just started doing arena on my druid, which means also my hidden rating starts on 1500..

[GuuD]

You forgot about "confidence". When you start your first games system isn't sure in your current skill level, and your hidden rating changes pretty fast (can be for 100 in one game). It starts changing more slowly as soon as your win rate is closer to 50%. Huge difference in team and matchmaking rating cause this system to apply penalties to your team, to make this ratings even. Anyway: if you are matched against 1200 players, while being 1700 player, score of 20-5 or better would be enough to get back on track. If you cant maintain 80% winrate against 1200 players and 50% winrate against 1700 players, it means that you are not 1700 player. It doesnt really matter if it's your gear or skill cause you to lose games, because being "player of some ratings" includes skill and gear needed for this level of playing. Your current rating is 1200, and i do believe in current system much more than in older version.

[Balduvian]

It doesn't got anything to do with skill/gear or whatever at this point. The system seems fine for most of the time, but after 10 wins and 15 loses you shouldn't be on 1200...

[the raptura]

"What colour is the crayon?"
"The crayon is blue."
"Yeah I understand that but what colour is the crayon?"
"Blue.."
"Okay the crayon is blue, I can see that the crayon is blue, but what is blue?"

:

[Nubs]

It doesn't got anything to do with skill/gear or whatever at this point. The system seems fine for most of the time, but after 10 wins and 15 loses you shouldn't be on 1200...

It sounds like you beat teams worse than you while losing to teams way worse than you

[Wraith]

I think this hidden ating is total and utter crap.

I started DK/holy pali team start of season. We got as low as 1350 and as we got gear we got back to 1525 before my partner decided to lvl an alt. Got another DK, we stayed round the 1500 mark.

So i wanted to find a good partner to progress with so i got a rogue friend of mine. Now we are both well geared, i started a new team. We start out 1500. Loose 1st one because rogue dropped mouse off the table. Win 9 in a row. Win another 6. Now this was previously enough to get us well into the 1600's. 15-1, we ended being 1552. 5 points a win!!! Then we came up against Hunter/pali, didn't have a good strat sorted and lost 2 matches. 15-3. RATING BACK BELOW 1500!!!!!
It took 15 matches to get above 1550 and 2 to put us back below where we started. I checked the other team both were h Naxx and epic glad geared. The people we came up against getting to 1550 were what you would expect round 1500 from previous seasons.

The new system is shit. Hidden ratings....HOW DO I KNOW WHAT PARTNER TO CHOOSE? I need to find someone who has never been in a low rating team and guess. Its hard enough to find a consistant partner, but to find one with an invisible rating that noone knows is impossible.

Way to go blizz you retards. At least let us see what we are rated!!!!

[Deleted]

I think this hidden ating is total and utter crap.

I started DK/holy pali team start of season. We got as low as 1350 and as we got gear we got back to 1525 before my partner decided to lvl an alt. Got another DK, we stayed round the 1500 mark.

So i wanted to find a good partner to progress with so i got a rogue friend of mine. Now we are both well geared, i started a new team. We start out 1500. Loose 1st one because rogue dropped mouse off the table. Win 9 in a row. Win another 6. Now this was previously enough to get us well into the 1600's. 15-1, we ended being 1552. 5 points a win!!! Then we came up against Hunter/pali, didn't have a good strat sorted and lost 2 matches. 15-3. RATING BACK BELOW 1500!!!!!
It took 15 matches to get above 1550 and 2 to put us back below where we started. I checked the other team both were h Naxx and epic glad geared. The people we came up against getting to 1550 were what you would expect round 1500 from previous seasons.

The new system is shit. Hidden ratings....HOW DO I KNOW WHAT PARTNER TO CHOOSE? I need to find someone who has never been in a low rating team and guess. Its hard enough to find a consistant partner, but to find one with an invisible rating that noone knows is impossible.

Way to go blizz you retards. At least let us see what we are rated!!!!



if u cant get a high rating with this set up then you just need to pve or someing cos there the two most op classes in the game take no skill to play them just throw your ccs and imba dps at the same time ah down goes the opposition.

dk and holy pally need a nerf untill then arena is always gonna be retarded no matter what they do.

yea yea cmon start you crying about this n that dks n pallies you no im fcking right my care cup is empty

[Spooh]

I hate the new system ,and how easily abused it is.

A friend of mine started a new 2s team, with a very skilled druid who had 2300 hidden 2v2 rating.

They probably only met 2000+ teams, since the druids hidden was very high, and when they won they gained 28-30 rating, and when they lost they lost around 0-2?

Yes, they even lost 0 rating in a fight, what the heck is this?

So if I get 2300 rating, and want to boost my friend, i just make a new team and play with him, lose no rating?

[Langebrød]

I hate the new system ,and how easily abused it is.

A friend of mine started a new 2s team, with a very skilled druid who had 2300 hidden 2v2 rating.

They probably only met 2000+ teams, since the druids hidden was very high, and when they won they gained 28-30 rating, and when they lost they lost around 0-2?

Yes, they even lost 0 rating in a fight, what the heck is this?

So if I get 2300 rating, and want to boost my friend, i just make a new team and play with him, lose no rating?

Something like that, yes.

[Keelie]

The problem with the new system is, it doesn't allow you to start new teams and reset your personal rating. You have a persistent rating. It's not really a problem, it's a better measure of a player's actual skill, and it allows ratings to fluctuate below 1500 more consistently, because once you're down there, you actually have to win games to get back up, not just buy a new team. I suppose the problem actually is that people think that being below 1500 is bad. And perhaps it is, but what it really seems to be, is that the 1400s are now the new 1500s. Or that people who in S1-4 would be in the 1100s would just buy new teams to stay in the 1400s, but now, they're actually where they belong.

As for "abusing" the system - the skilled Druid with the hidden 2300 rating. You forget that the teams they're gaining 25-26 points from (you cannot get 30 points anymore) don't LOSE 25-26 points to them. The teams they fight might lose 5 points. They gain so much rating so quickly so that they can get out of the 1500s bracket. Remember when people were complaining about Gladiator teams stomping them down on their way back up because they made a new team? This is what that fixes. Note it also works in reverse. If you deserve to be in the 1100s, you'll be there quickly, while if you deserve to be in the 2300s, you'll get there quickly, too.

I'm guessing that the reason you could lose so many points so quickly is that your hidden rating knows how many games you've actually lost and is making your "new" team adjust quickly to that rating. Sucks for all of you people who decided to lose 10 matches a week before you realized how the new system works and your hidden rating is somewhere in the 1100s, huh?

You're the one being an idiot who's just angry that he thinks this new system makes his rating lower. Well, ahem, it does, but the old system simply made your rating too high. You didn't deserve to be in the 1500s because you bought a new team each week. You deserved to be much lower.

Finally, about winning and losing matches...if you gain only 5 points from a match, guess what - that team was probably much crappier than you and you should've won. If you lose 20 points, then again, they were much worse than you and you should've won. But you lost. So you lost a lot of points. It doesn't matter if you're 15-3 and in the 1400s. That would only matter if all the teams you fought were at the exact same rating as you. You beat 15 teams you should've facerolled, and you did, and for that, you only got a few points. You lost to some people you shouldn't have lost to, and you lost a lot of points. Deal with it. The quantity of win vs. loss is now quantified by how good the players you're facing are. You know, the way it should be.

The reason you beat so many teams and only gain 5 points when you make a new team is that A LOT of people suck at Arena. They are now very low. And they are staying there. The problem is that new teams start at 1500. So the team doesn't gain many points or loses a lot of points depending and people just don't understand how that works. All these people stuck in the 1100-1200s used to be playing in the 1400-1500s, so when you fought them on a fresh team, you gained or lost a reasonable amount of points, 10-15. Now, they are much much lower, and you have to fight your way through a lot of 5 point victories to get out of that quagmire. Which isn't hard, if you're halfway decent, because they suck. So if you lose to them and lose 25 points, then you suck, too and the system is just adjusting your rating!

Seriously, how do people not understand this? One last time - the reason you fight so many teams and only gain 5 points is because there are a lot of people with low ratings. You should be able to beat them without losing if you deserve to be decently rated. If not, and you lose to them, you lose a lot of rating.

Now, I admit, it would be nice if the matchmaking system could find other 1500 rated teams rather than pitting you against a bunch of scrubs again and again when you first start out with an untouched personal rating, and until you make your hidden rating something decent, but, they shouldn't be hard matches, and you shouldn't lose if you deserve a decent rating.