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  1. #21

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    The Way Blizzard is handling Badges of Heroism/Valor/Conquest/Whatevercomesnext is, in my opinion, the correct way.

    The lowest tier of gear, heroism, is found in 10 man tier 7 content, as are the heroism badges.

    Tier 7.5 and Tier 8 operate on badges of Valor, and are all the same iLevel.

    Tier 8.5 will use Conquest, and be slightly better than tier 7.5 and 8.

    So now, if you do Ulduar and the new vault raid in a 10 man group, you get valor badges, which is a step up in gear quality.

    If you've been doing both levels of progression, 10 man and 25 man, you no longer have any desire for heroism-quality loot anyway, so what's your complaint?

    They will add new valor rewards, and new conquest rewards.

    Next patch they will add new conquest, and new next-tier stuff.

    And so on and so forth.

  2. #22

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    A player will need months to gather badges for single item. dont you think its a bit long?
    It is already so freaking easy to get epics, do you really want it to become even more easier? And no I don't think its that long, it means you will have something to look forward to. Beside that when you eventually receive it you will be far more excited then when you received the item by doing one raid and looting 60 emblems in that single raid.

  3. #23
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Make the Conquest vendor after Yogg-Saron so only those that have killed him can use the vendor.


    \o/

  4. #24

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    There is another easy way to solve the whole "One conquest item costs X weeks of conquest Token farming" Make a Badge of Conquest only part of the cost.

    So say they add Conquest bracers, make them worth 10 marks of conquest and 40 marks of Valor.

    Of course, then people would whine about needing to keep doing old farm content, but meh, its either that, or 30 to 50 Mark of conquest per item, so weeks of farming per item.

  5. #25
    RWeber
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    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Triston
    In BC people who war farming post-nerf kara for badges were getting the same gear as people who were farming Illidan quality wise.
    And what's wrong with that? Badges were a brilliant idea. They served three purposes:

    1. Allowed end-game raiders to fill in holes in their gear when some items just refused to drop. (Also meant less time was needed for farm raids as opposed to progression raids.)
    2. Helped less skilled guilds over gear content so they didn't get stuck for too long.
    3. Allowed late comers to gear up enough to apply to the end-game guilds.

    It helped all kinds of players and hurt nobody. Except perhaps the egos of a few fragile individuals.

  6. #26

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by RWeber
    And what's wrong with that? Badges were a brilliant idea. They served three purposes:

    1. Allowed end-game raiders to fill in holes in their gear when some items just refused to drop. (Also meant less time was needed for farm raids as opposed to progression raids.)
    2. Helped less skilled guilds over gear content so they didn't get stuck for too long.
    3. Allowed late comers to gear up enough to apply to the end-game guilds.

    It helped all kinds of players and hurt nobody. Except perhaps the egos of a few fragile individuals.
    I'm by no means an elitist, or even hardcore, but your thoughts have some serious flaws:

    1. Great, im all for helping raiders fill holes in their gear, but lets do it with tokens that drop within that tier of raiding, not heroics and two tiers prior.
    2. If you needed to outgear an encounter, you probably didn't deserve to be there. People expect things handed to them, rather than researching, wiping, and progressing on their own.
    3. If a late comer was skilled, most end-game guilds were willing to work with them, since when the badges for T6 came out most end-game guilds were already disenchanting most of the drops anyway.

    I think the badges are a good idea, but I think it's important to make sure people are only getting the level of gear they deserve for the content they're currently working on. Blizzard is taking a proper approach now, after a very bad run at the end of T6.

  7. #27
    RWeber
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    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Lleregis
    I'm by no means an elitist, or even hardcore, but your thoughts have some serious flaws:
    Just because you say you're not an "elitist" doesn't mean that you're not one. Based on your views below I'd certainly consider you one. You also fail to show a single "flaw", just that your opinion is different. Again, badge gear had many positive effects and no negative effects, aside from perhaps bruising the ego of a few people.

    1. Great, im all for helping raiders fill holes in their gear, but lets do it with tokens that drop within that tier of raiding, not heroics and two tiers prior.
    This is what they're doing, so this aspect remains with the new badge system. Except now people can't fill in those holes on their own time outside of raids.

    2. If you needed to outgear an encounter, you probably didn't deserve to be there. People expect things handed to them, rather than researching, wiping, and progressing on their own.
    I don't really understand what you mean by "deserve" in this context. If anything, everyone "deserves" to have some content that suits their play style and skill level. Some people are less skilled and simply can't down a boss with the gear available through previous drops. What's the harm in helping them out by letting them get better gear through badges? I'm talking about content a tier or more below the end-game. The top tier should always be reserved for the people who are well organized, do their research, are skilled, and put up wiping hundreds and hundreds of times. The TBC system meant that when new content came out everyone got something new rather than being stuck.

    Besides badge gear was hardly handed to people, just getting a single piece of gear would take a lot of time. Sure, by the end of TBC I was swimming in badges, but that was because I was an end-game raider with the gear and group to clear Kara and heroics in a trivial amount of time. Someone PUGing and running in a struggling Kara guild could get a piece or two, enough to stop their progress from stagnating.

    3. If a late comer was skilled, most end-game guilds were willing to work with them, since when the badges for T6 came out most end-game guilds were already disenchanting most of the drops anyway.
    Some end-game guilds would if there were no geared up alternative recruits available. BT/Hyjal or even SSC/TK guilds were not advertising for people with starter gear. Besides, how do you prove you're skilled without having the gear to show that you've downed hard bosses? Someone with many badge pieces at least showed dedication by having grinded through many, many heroic runs rather than just expecting to be carried through content. Furthermore, having badge geared recruits meant less time farming and more time progressing.

    I think the badges are a good idea, but I think it's important to make sure people are only getting the level of gear they deserve for the content they're currently working on. Blizzard is taking a proper approach now, after a very bad run at the end of T6.
    Again with the "deserve". Gear is just means to an end, not some trophy. In this case handing people a few high ilvl pieces of gear helps them progress. The system in TBC helped many people, the new system fewer. Therefore the new system is worse.

  8. #28

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilmoo
    ok, blizzard announced there will be new badges in uld, "Marks of Conquest" (10man) and still unknown name for 25 man, the point is, that the only place you can earn these badges will be Ulduar, a place with 14 bosses that is uhm.. 13 badges for 13 bosses and Yogg-saron giving 2 badges (as it is in Naxx) current Valor and Heroic badges will become somewhat usless as long as Ulduar hits, as there is no way you can convert lower tier badges to higher ones. So if blizzard will not add additional encounters (5 man heroics, ZA style instanses) that will drop new badges, a player will need months to gather badges for single item. dont you think its a bit long? :-\
    I'm sorry, how is this any different then current Emblems of Valour?

    You are assuming that Ulduar will only be the 14 boss instance they announced.

    They have also mentioned a new Vault boss.
    There is no reason to assume that there won't be either 1 or 2 other Single Boss instances (ie like Maly or Sarth).

    So in reality, it shouldn't be any harder to accumulate Emblems of Conquest then it was to get Emblems of Valour.

    And speaking personally, I spent a grand total of 25 emblems of Valour for my mainset. Every other Eov I have spent has been for offset use.

    In other words...there is nothing to worry about here. The gear that drops in Ulduar should be better then what is available via emblems. If you get lucky, you may not even need them, just as I don't need EoV now.

    And Badges in TBC were horribad. Emblems in WoTLK are great. Having tiered badge loot was one of the smartest things Blizz ever did.


  9. #29

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    I guess i am elitist, but i dont care. This entire thread is what you get when your handing out to much free epics. Whine whine whine.

  10. #30
    Grunt
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    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Gear and dedication do not equal Skill, Rweber. The emblem system as it is is just fine. If someone doesn't like it, there are two options:

    1. Deal with it and continue to play and have fun.
    2. Move on. I'm sure Age of Conan or Warhammer will welcome you with open arms.

  11. #31

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    RWeber, I believe that the term "Elitist" is thrown about WAY to easily now. I am not elitist, but I am from the company that believes you should have to earn your progression through skill, not through outgearing an encounter.

    You claim that high end guilds from BC would look for someone dedicated to getting 500 badges through grinding heroics/kara? I say that just because someone spends 10 hours a day on WoW does not mean that they have the ability to handle intense encounters.

    As a raid leader, I would much rather go through the process of gearing someone up that is intelligent and understands direction than having a druid dedicated to battle rezzing the geared person who cant stay out of blue circles.

    My arguement about badges before was in regards to what was wrong in BC. I think they've taken a major step forward, and I am fine with the current badge system.

    If you believe everyone should have a right to see every encounter, no matter how bad your players are, then I think you'll get a lot of disagreement here. You do not need to be a hardcore player to be a skilled player... you can still be a terrible player in top end gear.

  12. #32

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    In a way, this is Blizz's version of a DKP system. Sometimes, you don't get that item to fill in that slot because the boss didn't drop it, or a guildie won the bid/roll/method of handing out the loot. The items in the badge system are placeholders (mostly, or they're what they are originally intended for from my point of view) until you do get that upgrade that you want. By making multiple tiers of badges, they seperate the level of gear from guilds that can make it from those that can't.

    It could've been worse: The badge gear would have only 1 currency and people would have access to Ulduar level gear simply by running heroics all day.

  13. #33
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by heeps
    They want to avoid crossing multiple tiers of loot with the same badge, like back in BC.
    Indeed, they are trying to not make the same mistake they did with TBC - they even tried to explain that but obviously most people won't get it, logic doesn't seem to work on a lot of WoW players.

  14. #34

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by betax
    or maybe some people have real life and cant raid 24 hours a day....maybe people who are fully geared are just no lifes....i enjoy my life...out of wow...maybe people that are hardcore raider just never been outside
    I raid 6-7 hours a week and clear all content. This arguement is stupid.

  15. #35

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Lleregis
    I raid 6-7 hours a week and clear all content. This arguement is stupid.
    100% agree. WOW is just one of the many things I do in life. It doesn't take 24/7 raiding to gear up and clear content. A brain big enough to understand "fire burn" is all you really need.

  16. #36

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by betax
    or maybe some people have real life and cant raid 24 hours a day....maybe people who are fully geared are just no lifes....i enjoy my life...out of wow...maybe people that are hardcore raider just never been outside
    This is and always has been the stupidest argument against difficult raids (EDIT: And for eaasy loot). You make a choice when you do anything, and people choose to invest time in WOW. They get rewarded for investing their time. If you choose NOT to invest your time, then you shouldn't get the same rewards, end of story. You CHOOSE to "have a life and not raid 24 hours a day." Good for you. You obviously have your time invested in other things. I do not see why you believe you should get rewarded the same as the people who invest their time in WoW. If you care about your epics that much, then invest your time in WoW, and you too will be rewarded for it... otherwise, stfu.

  17. #37

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    betax, raiding doesn't require 24 hours a day. You sir, do not realize that all 25 man content can be cleared in under 4 hrs a week; 2.5 hrs for naxx, 45 mins sarth and 45 mins maly (this is allowing for wipes/breaks).

  18. #38

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    For starters I would say it is 12 single and 2 from yog sarron because I'm betting one of the 14 bosses is actually the hardcore optional boss that you will probably not get near when you first start Uludar so it will be more like 13 bosses. Also, Uludar will be released with a new sing of OS and a new wing of VOA and both of those will probably exist mostly to farm emblems. Also, if it is like it is right now then there will be only one or two items that are actually worth buying for each class using emblems (assuming you don't buy your t8 and t8.5 pieces with them). Some classes have absolutely no emblem gear worth getting with EoV and some only have one. The only BIS for tanks is the cloak and boots (the rest isn't worth getting). That is only 65 emblems.

    Assuming 14 emblems from Uludar, 2 from VoA2.0, and 5 from OS2.0, that is 21 a week. That means to get the two decent items most classes use it would only take 4 weeks. That is assuming that there is no random drop type of mechanic in OS2.0 like there is in OS1.0. Four weeks to get the two decent pieces of gear is not that insane. Some classes have only one 1 bis item from emblems currently and some have no bis items from emblems. So those classes would have wasted emblems anyways.

    As far as EoV not being used on new items, this is something we already knew and this is the reason they let you buy EoH with EoV so that you can buy heirloom items with the EoH. For toons that are gearing up that are freshly leveled EoH and EoV will be far from pointless as well.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Ave07's Avatar
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    Re: Badges getting messed up

    10 man Ulduar is usppose to drop 7.5 level gear and in order to do 7.5 content you prob need at least 10 man naxx and heroic gear which isnt hard to get. /end

  20. #40

    Re: Badges getting messed up

    Quote Originally Posted by DaShredda
    Badges were a great idea in TBC to keep people from being completely left behind, but it seems like the concept has been lost to them now.
    They didn't lose the concept. They just made it so that you had to actually do the tier of content the gear was meant for. They didn't want Wrath to turn into what TBC turned into where you ran Kara every week for gear that was equivalent to what people were getting from the second highest tier in the game. They still take a lot of the emphasis off of the RNG for some classes, and that is a good thing. However, more bis items need added for many classes.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

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