Badges getting messed up

[Daez]

Help me learn how to better /roll.  I Checked EJ and don't see skill in /roll.

I have been running every 25 man every week since December.  It seems I get outrolled on my T7.5 gloves and Chest.  I won the T7.5 head on Kel, but since I have a better one I gave it up for a guildie.  I have lost every roll on Kel's spellpower sword.  So, it can be all about luck

Unless I am such a noob and missed the skill of /roll

Its not about luck. The problem is you are either pugging and not leading the pugs or your guild has a screwed up loot system. Any guild that relies completely on random rolls to hand out loot is a guild I will never be in.

If you are in such a guild introduce them to the beauty of DKP (although it has flaws) or loot council or convince other people that when they have a best in slot they don't need tier over someone with 100% attendance that carries their own weight but is using a blue. Also convince your guild that when people do stupid stuff like die in the first void zone or go afk for the first half of the fight they don't need to roll on gear either. Convince them that when half the raid dies to iceblocks because of a lack of heals the healers don't need to roll on an item that the top dps caster needs as bis. Convince people to be a little less greedy and a little more people oriented in raids. I know that is impossible, but we can keep striving for WoW Utopia.

[Daez]

So let me get this straight. To me there is a surprising amount of people in this thread that wish to be able to run Naxx to purchase t8 level gear.

You are a tad off. There are people here that wish to run Naxx to get tokens to buy tier 9 loot and enjoyed doing so in TBC so they don't see a problem with it at all.

Hell they don't even want to run Naxx for it. They want to run heroics to get T9 gear like you could in TBC in an extremely flawed system that was only introduced about 4 months before all that gear was made completely pointless anyways because Wrath came out.

[Daez]

The thing is, heroics and Naxx 10 have the same. So people could farm heroics and get 2 T7 pieces. So they already set the precident.

Heroics are about the same difficulty as 10 man Naxx. Some heroics are even harder than 10 man Naxx. Maybe they should introduce a t8 heroic or two? Or even better, put a hard mode on heroics?

We are a free roll guild, so I may never get the items. I run every week, never miss a raid, but still can't get the gear.

Either get a new guild or convince your guild to get a loot system that doesn't suck. Either way, its not the fault of anyone but your guilds leadership. If you have been in the guild for 2 months with 100% attendance there is no way a fresh ap should even be considered for loot over you.

[mutantboy]

You do realize it was very possible to get into end game raiding guilds in TBC (which was harder content then now) before badge gear came out right? I


You have four years of game that prove you are simply wrong yet you worry about tokens not giving newbs free loot. GG!

So tell that to all the guilds that failed for lack of people who were adequately geared.

My server turned into a desert as after merging from 4 to 2 the top guilds struggled for people - and the herdcore left the server. Then as more badge gear became available new guilds started popping up all over the place.

Yes guilds can 24 man most content and gear up new people. problem is they mostly don't.

Honestly i don't really care. But the system worked - the only people who have a problem with it is elitist snobs.
But in a year under the curent system when there is 1/4 of the current raiding population I guess we will see. Blizzard do like the money the large number of us casuals pay them

[kailtas]

i think a badge system shud be only to make ppl dont go from the raid with nothing.
let's say u run trough whole naxx and dont get shit.
but hey! u got badges!

thats OK

but when the damn blizz is trying to set up t8 gear for t7.5 badges it's just wrong.

t7 badges shud be t7 gear
t7.5 badges t7.5 gear and not t8 gear.

to make those items useable blizz can just let ppl trade them in for a moderate amount of gold at the release of new raids.

[davesurfer]

Its not about luck. The problem is you are either pugging and not leading the pugs or your guild has a screwed up loot system. Any guild that relies completely on random rolls to hand out loot is a guild I will never be in.

If you are in such a guild introduce them to the beauty of DKP (although it has flaws) or loot council or convince other people that when they have a best in slot they don't need tier over someone with 100% attendance that carries their own weight but is using a blue. Also convince your guild that when people do stupid stuff like die in the first void zone or go afk for the first half of the fight they don't need to roll on gear either. Convince them that when half the raid dies to iceblocks because of a lack of heals the healers don't need to roll on an item that the top dps caster needs as bis. Convince people to be a little greedy and a little more people oriented in raids. I know that is impossible, but we can keep striving for WoW Utopia.

Well see here is the dilemma, I play for fun, and not just gear. I am new to this server and guild, and it is an active cool group of drama free people. I will take this over gear any day. While we do rely on random rolls, we have a one win per run rule until everyone got gear. I only need the 7.5 chest and Kel's sword from Naxx, but it is fun running it anyway

So yes there is some unselfishness, like I gave up the t7.5 head I won because I had Gothik's Cowl. People have also passed on items when it was a bigger upgrade. But since the gloves only drop in OS, there isn't "another" roll on next boss. Plus there are 10-12 players (mage, DK, Druid, Rogue) rolling on the same item. Problem is it isn't always the same 10-12. I am sure I will get chest one of the days, as our 25 man Naxx is mostly the same crew, so it should be mine before Ulduar, maybe. That's where emblems help. I have over 100 EoV, it would be nice to buy some gear, I have put more time in than many full T7.5 people.

[Gande]

Thank you for your judgment. Its fun to judge others isn't it? You would be another reason ...

judger

I have been running every 25 man every week since December... I have lost every roll on Kel's spellpower sword. So, it can be all about luck

luck indeed it can be....have been doing the 25s in wrath as long as you and have yet to see the lovely sword drop, while the healy mace now goes to feral druids and ret pallies >.< Here's to hoping for some possible weapon badge loots so people like me mage aren't stuck with patches' 10 man dagger.

Also convince your guild that when people do stupid stuff like die in the first void zone or go afk for the first half of the fight they don't need to roll on gear either. Convince them that when half the raid dies to iceblocks because of a lack of heals the healers don't need to roll on an item that the top dps caster needs as bis. Convince people to be a little less greedy and a little more people oriented in raids. I know that is impossible, but we can keep striving for WoW Utopia.

Whose to say anyone in his guild sucked? He's just being unlucky in a poor system, that would be quality of management not quality of player.

[Daez]

So tell that to all the guilds that failed for lack of people who were adequately geared.

My server turned into a desert as after merging from 4 to 2 the top guilds struggled for people - and the herdcore left the server. Then as more badge gear became available new guilds started popping up all over the place.

New guilds would have "popped up all over the place" anyways. Your guild failed because even after they merged with another guild the leadership still sucked. They were more than likely unwilling to help any new players gear and required geared players to ap. They most likely insulted anyone that tried to ap without the level of gear they required. They more than likely made stupid excuses as to why they couldn't be bothered to run the only ap shaman they got in the last few month through some content to get them geared. There were a lot of guilds that wanted to poach players from other guilds they had geared in. A lot of those guilds failed. A lot more guilds came along to take their place. That doesn't mean that players that were coming late didn't get into end game raiding guilds. It just means that end game constantly became T5 even after T6 was already out and as you went along you saw fewer and fewer people in T6 and even less in Sunwell.

Yes guilds can 24 man most content and gear up new people. problem is they mostly don't.

You don't need your guild to carry you through content that is already being pugged. Form your own pug. Its not difficult, its not hard, it just takes a little more effort then farming Karazhan for badges. QQ!

Honestly i don't really care. But the system worked - the only people who have a problem with it is elitist snobs.

The system did not work. It gave really bad players a way to over gear themselves and the problem is they were still really bad players. Yes it was nice to get free loot, but if you sucked you still sucked. It did give the random new player that was decent a way to get into raiding while skipping content, but that was rare. That same random person can pug Naxx and OS and VOA to get the gear they need to get to T8 even after T8 comes out.

But in a year under the curent system when there is 1/4 of the current raiding population I guess we will see. Blizzard do like the money the large number of us casuals pay them

You are still speaking about the future like some kind of psychic. If a year from now what you said becomes the reality then by all means come back and tell me I was wrong. Until then, this is the present try living in it.

[Daez]

but when the damn blizz is trying to set up t8 gear for t7.5 badges it's just wrong.

t7 badges shud be t7 gear
t7.5 badges t7.5 gear and not t8 gear.

You are ASSUMING this is the way it will work when it hasn't been stated that it will work this way. Yes the items that drop from 10 man Uludar will probably be obtainable along with Emblems of Valor but that does not mean that they will be added to the EoV merchant. Blizzard has never said one way or the other if T8 pieces (or even Uludar equivalent 10 man gear) will actually be purchasable with EoV.

[Daez]

I have over 100 EoV, it would be nice to buy some gear, I have put more time in than many full T7.5 people.

There is a problem there. Also, your guild is not drama free or you wouldn't be here bitching about their loot policy now would you? It might be drama free in game because your gm probably kicks anyone that dares to speak the truth about his inadequacy to effectively establish a decent loot policy in the guild. However, any guild that thinks that its scrub new recruits are on the same level as it veterans when it comes to equipment is just asking for problems. Is it fun to gear up the lucky SOB scrub recruit while your veterans are still starving for gear only to have that scrub join a "better" guild after they are done farming your guild for drops? I wouldn't think so.

[Kzasch]

"This is my cookie. You can't have my cookie, it's mine mine mine mine mine. It's MY cookie. Mommy, Tommy said that I should share my cookie but I dont want to buhuhu"

[Nerdrage]

"This is my cookie. You can't have my cookie, it's mine mine mine mine mine. It's MY cookie. Mommy, Tommy said that I should share my cookie but I dont want to buhuhu"

Inversely

Mommy why does Tommy have a cookie but I don't? I want cookie too. I don't care that Tommy worked all week and used his allowance on that cookie while I sat on a forum making scrub casual comments demanding free loots. I want free cookies. Fix it mommy.

And again. Cake Mania. Look into it. All the instant gratification you seek.

[Nerdrage]

I pay the same amount as hardcore raiders so there's no reason I shouldn't have the same gear.

http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/cakemania.jsp


I ran Naxx for a month and I don't yet have every best in slot. Please fix Blizzard.

http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/cakemania.jsp


Gearing up takes too long and attunements are a bad idea because what if I want to run instances on my alt.

http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/cakemania.jsp


I should be able to buy t8 and t9 with heroic emblems. I have a life and I don't have time to always run the most current dungeon to get the most current gear.

http://www.shockwave.com/gamelanding/cakemania.jsp

[Deleted]

hahaha nerdrage

[Palamedic]

ok, blizzard announced there will be new badges in uld, "Marks of Conquest" (10man) and still unknown name for 25 man, the point is, that the only place you can earn these badges will be Ulduar, a place with 14 bosses that is uhm.. 13 badges for 13 bosses and Yogg-saron giving 2 badges (as it is in Naxx) current Valor and Heroic badges will become somewhat usless as long as Ulduar hits, as there is no way you can convert lower tier badges to higher ones. So if blizzard will not add additional encounters (5 man heroics, ZA style instanses) that will drop new badges, a player will need months to gather badges for single item. dont you think its a bit long? :-\

You got mixed up. Marks of Conquest will be dropped in 25 man Ulduar, while 10 man Ulduar will drop Emblems of Valor.

25 Ulduar= T8
10 Ulduar= T7.5

[RWeber]

RWeber, I believe that the term "Elitist" is thrown about WAY to easily now. I am not elitist, but I am from the company that believes you should have to earn your progression through skill, not through outgearing an encounter.

I too happen to believe top end raid progression should be done through skill and dedication. However, I'm from the company that believes that not everyone is like me and other people should have their fun too. If they need to outgear an earlier tier of raiding in order to complete it, I have no problem with it as long as the top level raid is hard (which it isn't in WotLK).

You claim that high end guilds from BC would look for someone dedicated to getting 500 badges through grinding heroics/kara? I say that just because someone spends 10 hours a day on WoW does not mean that they have the ability to handle intense encounters.

As a raid leader, I would much rather go through the process of gearing someone up that is intelligent and understands direction than having a druid dedicated to battle rezzing the geared person who cant stay out of blue circles.

You never know how an applicant will turn up until your try them out. However, if someone is willing to put in the effort to farm hundreds of badges to apply to your guild, you can reasonably expect them to put in similar level of effort into raiding. You have no way of knowing whether any applicant new to raiding will be able to handle intense encounters, or whether they're intelligent and understand directions just by reading their applications.

My arguement about badges before was in regards to what was wrong in BC. I think they've taken a major step forward, and I am fine with the current badge system.

Yes, your argument was that you don't think people with less skills or time deserve to see raiding or deserve to wear any pieces with high ilevels. You never pointed out one single negative effect of badge gear beyond you getting annoyed about what other people are doing or wearing. I pointed out three positive effects of the old badge system, two of which are completely negated by the new system, and one of which is still applicable but less so.

If you believe everyone should have a right to see every encounter, no matter how bad your players are, then I think you'll get a lot of disagreement here. You do not need to be a hardcore player to be a skilled player... you can still be a terrible player in top end gear.

I made the complete opposite argument: Hard content should be hard, while earlier content should be made progressively easier so that people with less skills and less time can have their fun too. In other words, there should be something for everyone, not that everyone should see everything. Funnily enough this is the exact same argument made against Blizzard's move to make all raid encounters in WotLK mind numbingly boring.

[davesurfer]

There is a problem there. Also, your guild is not drama free or you wouldn't be here bitching about their loot policy now would you?

Dude chill out. I wasn't bitching about their policy. Was I? Read again. I was saying I like the tier emblem concept and ability to buy some tier gear with emblems that drop in the appropriate level raid. I was actually defending the loot system that people said they would quit the guild over.

Man people take this game too seriously. As long as we are doing a full clear of Naxx 10 and 25 everyweek, I have fun. The point of the game is fun, right?

[thoukaia]

irrelevant: does anyone know if there are new badge rewards coming with 3.1? any link possible?

[Deleted]

Help me learn how to better /roll. I Checked EJ and don't see skill in /roll.

I have been running every 25 man every week since December. It seems I get outrolled on my T7.5 gloves and Chest. I won the T7.5 head on Kel, but since I have a better one I gave it up for a guildie. I have lost every roll on Kel's spellpower sword. So, it can be all about luck

Unless I am such a noob and missed the skill of /roll

Are you finished QQing? Thanks.

If you'd read the whole topic you'd see that the crap you quoted was in reference to someone getting into a good guild, and correct me if I'm wrong but most good guilds don't recruit on the power of /roll.

[Dumptruk]

I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing the desire to play with 9 other people simply for the sake of epic loot. (Aka pug raids), with skill.

Blizzard has to appeal to all types of gamers. The guy that doesn't know the difference between strength and attack power. The casual player, who can only sometimes squeeze in one heroic a day, between work and family. The hardcore raider, who's investing the majority of their young adulthood, sitting around in their pajamas playing WoW from sun up to sun down, while everyone else their age is getting a post-high school education. I think once you start alienating any of those core demographics, they lose a good portion of players.

Let's say hypothetically you have two players side by side:

You have player number one. His daily regimen consists of going to college part time to keep his parents off his back, so that he can play WoW fulltime every day of the week in a guild that's currently put their 25 man naxx on hold so they can practice in Ulduar. He was also the one that complained Wrath was too easy because his guild spent the last 3 months before WoTLK release, farming the new Naxx instance.

The second player is someone that's been playing Wrath since it came out. He has all the gear he could ever want from heroics, as well as two alts geared to a similar fashion. He's played WoW since day 1, and used to be hardcore like guy #1, but doesn't have the time anymore.

So what's worse? Losing players that quit because making comparable 10-25 man gear purchasable with emblems is somehow insulting, or losing players that have no more to do without greatly altering their lifestyles? I'd guess the later. In the end blizzard wants to make the game as appealing as it can for as many people as possible. Assuming there more people in the later group (which I'd bet there are), I'd think Blizzard agrees.