Thread: new shadowform.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    My own private hell
    Posts
    4,155

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I dislike having to categorise every change as a buff or nerf... sometimes it's just a difference or a standardisation (which this actually is).

    But technically speaking its a minor nerf, if for example you have a 30% crit rate, a 30% damage modifier is more dps than something dealing double damage 30% of the time. This is due to the multiplicative effect with other damage modifiers.

    In addition having something deal double damage is subject to RNG and as such it's not going to behave in an exact manor all the time. Sure it may balance out in your favour at times but i'd prefer less rng in my dps where possible.

    I still have a feeling haste is going to benefit better from the higher lvl gear but I could be wrong. Crit and haste are ranked the same at the moment (in current possible gear) per sim craft, so I don't see how crit or haste is our new go to stat. As it stands SP is by far the best stat point for point and I don't see how this is goign to change.
    What you fail to realize is that only Mindblast and Mindflay crit for 200%, every other of our spells crits for only 150%. So unless they change shadow power, our dots will only crit for 150%, so this is a NERF indeed.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  2. #22

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    I dislike having to categorise every change as a buff or nerf... sometimes it's just a difference or a standardisation (which this actually is).

    But technically speaking its a minor nerf, if for example you have a 30% crit rate, a 30% damage modifier is more dps than something dealing double damage 30% of the time. This is due to the multiplicative effect with other damage modifiers.

    In addition having something deal double damage is subject to RNG and as such it's not going to behave in an exact manor all the time. Sure it may balance out in your favour at times but i'd prefer less rng in my dps where possible.

    I still have a feeling haste is going to benefit better from the higher lvl gear but I could be wrong. Crit and haste are ranked the same at the moment (in current possible gear) per sim craft, so I don't see how crit or haste is our new go to stat. As it stands SP is by far the best stat point for point and I don't see how this is goign to change.
    Care to explain your view on the nature of the multiplicative effect?

  3. #23

    Re: new shadowform.

    dots don't tick for 1000...

    VT is ticking for a sick figure in raids...

    only time will tell on this one.

  4. #24

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleir
    dots don't tick for 1000...

    VT is ticking for a sick figure in raids...

    only time will tell on this one.

    ........................ do u know what "assuming" means?... i choosed 1000 coz its easier to understand.. kkthxbai

  5. #25

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleir
    dots don't tick for 1000...

    VT is ticking for a sick figure in raids...

    only time will tell on this one.
    No. It's a nerf. A 15% damage reduction on DoTs.

  6. #26

    Re: new shadowform.

    From what I can tell, in it's current form, it's a nerf. However if they add our DoT's to Shadow Power, it'll be a very minor buff. Personally I think blizzard need to learn the old saying "if it aint broke, don't fix it". Nerfing our DPS, which it most likely will end up doing, is just fu*king stupid, because our DPS is already really good and all... [/sarcasm]

  7. #27

    Re: new shadowform.

    i believe the changes to shadow are done purely with pvp in mind. crits to dot's adds burst, improved dplague adds an instant, mobile attack w/o a backlash, etc.

    and of course your dispersion and shadowform changes.

    i've yet to figure out the reason behind doing away with blackout, though.

  8. #28

    Re: new shadowform.

    I have done a very poor quality spreadsheet pen test. Neither the new or old damage calculations had Damage Modifiers included and the output came to

    New: 1117.06
    Old: 1094

    This is for one TICK of VT without any modifiers included. The interesting thing is that the modifiers might help the new version more as base damage is multiplied by our critical strike chance.

    Formulae
    Crit(%): 20%
    Spell Power: 2100
    Base Damage: 170
    Base Coefficient: 0.4 (40%)

    New =(1+20*0.53/100)*(170+(2100*0.4))
    Old =170+(2100*(0.4+(20/5/100)))

  9. #29

    Re: new shadowform.

    why the fuck is sp.com down ....

  10. #30

    Re: new shadowform.

    wowarmory isnt working for me either.

    stuff like this always happens when new stuff comes out.

  11. #31

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manip
    Sorry if this sounds disrespectful but some of the numbers posted above are nonsense.

    The old Shadowform converted Crit chance into coefficient and then spread that coefficient over the entire duration of a debuff. So for example if you had a 20% chance to crit your Shadow Word: Pain ticks gain 3.33% additional SP.

    The new Shadowform takes each tick and gives it a 20% chance to increase the base SP coefficient as well as the base damage by 50%. It also functions with a number of other mechanics the old version did not (e.g. Meta Gems).

    As far as the "Buff or Nerf?" question goes it will take some time to determine that. It is far from a simple calculation because they both gain from Spell Power while only the latter gains from Base Damage, Meta Gems, and some raid buffs.

    e.g.
    Old = Modifiers * (Base + SP*(Base_Coefficient+(Crit_Chance / No_Of_Ticks)))
    New = (Crit_Chance *.5 + Meta_Gem) * (Modifiers * (Base + SP*Base_Coefficient))

    So as I said it isn't nearly as simple as it seems. As SP or Crit changes the answer to the buff Vs. Nerf question might change along side it.
    Where do u get that from....im my eyes as i read the tooltip....i thought it would be like.... 20% Crit dmg = 20% more dot dmg...with 100% Crit our Dot would tick double ....

  12. #32
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    My own private hell
    Posts
    4,155

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet
    Where do u get that from....im my eyes as i read the tooltip....i thought it would be like.... 20% Crit dmg = 20% more dot dmg...with 100% Crit our Dot would tick double ....
    Theorycrafting + testing. It is true, the +damage from crit as it is now on live only counts for the base damage the dot does. A dot that truly crits will take into account all the modifiers that are available at the time of the crit.

    Still unsure if it is a (minor) buff or nerf though.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  13. #33

    Re: new shadowform.

    All other dots crit for 100%. I dont think we are in line for a nerf so even if its not on first ptr build i think it will be 100% crit damage when it comes live.
    If so it will be a slight buff cos of meta as a few have mntioned.


    Optimistic hat off.

    DP talent looks fun.

  14. #34

    Re: new shadowform.

    It's interesting.

    To be honest, i'm not sure exactly HOW our dots crit.

    Does it crit on the first tick? All the ticks?

    Also keep in mind that with Pain and Suffering 3/3 and our Mind Flay, that's a alot of critting going on there coupled with SW: P

    Alot of people are freaking out about this whole thing, saying it's a nerf, but it remains to be seen really. With the extra damage and burst that Devouring Plague receive, we just have to wait and see. If the initial devouring plague burst is affected by crit as well, that could be pretty sweet.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  15. #35

    Re: new shadowform.

    its a chance for each tick to crit individually.

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    My own private hell
    Posts
    4,155

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Direshadow
    If the initial devouring plague burst is affected by crit as well, that could be pretty sweet.
    300-500 damage isn't burst. I probably do more damage in melee...
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  17. #37

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    300-500 damage isn't burst. I probably do more damage in melee...
    Well we'll just have to see. Since the dots critting are "per tick" then having Shadow Word Pain and Mind Flay up all the time is going to be nice.

    I just refuse to believe that everything is a strait up nerf. Dispersion is actually worth casting now in PVP.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  18. #38

    Re: new shadowform.

    Improved Devouring Plague might be interesting if all of the damage from the first tick heals you, so shadow priests have a mini-heal to help give a little survivability.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  19. #39

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by heriana
    Care to explain your view on the nature of the multiplicative effect?
    When you have one ability that increases damage by 10% and another ability doing it by 5% the belief is you get 15% extra damage... this isnt' the case.

    The buffs are multiplactive, so 1.1 (10%) * 1.05 (5%) = 1.155 or 15.5%.

    Someone also mentioned shadowpower... if they do it like affliction locks there is no actual critical strike, instead the talent creates a chance for the dot to apply double damage = to your % chance to crit. It therefore bypasses the crit mechanic but mimics it instead.

  20. #40

    Re: new shadowform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet

    ........................ do u know what "assuming" means?... i choosed 1000 coz its easier to understand.. kkthxbai
    but why would you assume a figure like 1000 when our dots like more than twice that figure.

    so less of the kkthxbai bullshit

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •