Shockadin Spec Viable again?

[fex]

It looks like there is always going to be mixed reviews regarding the shockadin, I've never tested it before, but I will definately talk to my GL when I hit 80 about letting me run nax with it and see how it goes.
Has anyone tried it yet, say dps on patchwerk comes to mind, has anyone got any stats for it? yes i know it's for 3.1, but as far as the spec as it stands now, it would be really good to see some numbers. It seems like it should only go up from here right?

Sorry, bud, Shockadin is definitely a PvP spec only. If you want sustained PVE dps, you'll need to go ret.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Sorry, bud, Shockadin is definitely a PvP spec only. If you want sustained PVE dps, you'll need to go ret.

Ignore the mindless drivel like this.

Try what you want, and do your best to maximize it.

If Shockadin becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a weird melee hunter spec becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a tanking mage spec becomes viable, the game will be better for it.

Variety is a good thing, stop trying to squelch it so your e-peen can get a nice stroking.

Nobody really cares about you or your electronic ego, so please, pretty please, go DIAF unless you can provide something constructive and useful for the game.

Kthxbai.

[Mutin]

Ignore the mindless drivel like this.

Try what you want, and do your best to maximize it.

If Shockadin becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a weird melee hunter spec becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a tanking mage spec becomes viable, the game will be better for it.

Variety is a good thing, stop trying to squelch it so your e-peen can get a nice stroking.

Nobody really cares about you or your electronic ego, so please, pretty please, go DIAF unless you can provide something constructive and useful for the game.

Kthxbai.

But what the guy said is the truth?

[Firecrest]

Ignore the mindless drivel like this.

Try what you want, and do your best to maximize it.

If Shockadin becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a weird melee hunter spec becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a tanking mage spec becomes viable, the game will be better for it.

Variety is a good thing, stop trying to squelch it so your e-peen can get a nice stroking.

Nobody really cares about you or your electronic ego, so please, pretty please, go DIAF unless you can provide something constructive and useful for the game.

Kthxbai.

Wow. Speaking of mindless drivel. What a load of crap.

All of the things you listed are about as likely to happen (and remain in place) as Blizzard deciding to give Pallies a ranged weapon.

Could any of those things happen on accident? Yup. Would Blizzard let it remain that way once they found out? Not a chance in hell. Blizzard doesn't think a tanking Mage, melee Hunter or stupid ass Shockadin would be good for the game. Suddenly you know more about what would be best for the game than they do?

If you're a Pally and you want to DPS, spec Ret. If you want to heal, spec Holy. If you want to come up with some pathetic combination of the two that doesn't excel at either, don't bring your jank to a raid. You may not like it but Blizzard thinks the same way. They've created these roles and have purpously made it so that stepping outside their roles results in decreased performance. If you want to play around and have fun and this kind of nonsense does it for you, by all means feel free. It's a game and it's meant to be enjoyed. But don't inflict your terrible ideas on 24 other people. Period. End of story.

[tjanson]

If you want to play around and have fun and this kind of nonsense does it for you, by all means feel free. It's a game and it's meant to be enjoyed. But don't inflict your terrible ideas on 24 other people. Period. End of story.

This. Reminds me of a guy I knew who wanted to be a smite priest. If he'd have gone holy, or shadow we'd have taken him along, but he just couldn't understand why we didn't want to drag his stupid, worthless ass through content.

PvP's a little different though, I greatly enjoyed seeing the videos of 2 shockadins ripping people apart in Arena games.

[Funstain]

Shockadin is a great spec for people who don't want to maximize their potential in any role.

[shockpally]

This. Reminds me of a guy I knew who wanted to be a smite priest. If he'd have gone holy, or shadow we'd have taken him along, but he just couldn't understand why we didn't want to drag his stupid, worthless ass through content.

PvP's a little different though, I greatly enjoyed seeing the videos of 2 shockadins ripping people apart in Arena games.

And how would you know if he couldnt have been successful? Your narrow minded view of what YOU think works is just that. YOUR oppinion. You never even gave him a chance and that is what is sad.

In BC i ran the 40/00/21 build. I always healed instances. On 2 separate occations i was in late night pugs and we had 1 healer too many. So i volunteered to switch out to dps. I threw on my lamellar and did competent viable dps. I just had to drink more often.

I currently run a 52/00/19 build and i can heal anything and quest/solo/farm without any problems. I can certainly do enough respectable damage to be a viable contributer to any instance run dpsing. It isnt like every instance has waves and waves of mobs like VH.

[Mutin]

And how would you know if he couldnt have been successful? Your narrow minded view of what YOU think works is just that. YOUR oppinion. You never even gave him a chance and that is what is sad.

In BC i ran the 40/00/21 build. I always healed instances. On 2 separate occations i was in late night pugs and we had 1 healer too many. So i volunteered to switch out to dps. I threw on my lamellar and did competent viable dps. I just had to drink more often.

I currently run a 52/00/19 build and i can heal anything and quest/solo/farm without any problems. I can certainly do enough respectable damage to be a viable contributer to any instance run dpsing. It isnt like every instance has waves and waves of mobs like VH.

Yes, ofc u can contribute with dps. You just can't contribute with enough. As alot of ppl have said:
- Shockadin is a great spec for people who don't want to maximize their potential in any role. -
If you were retribution you could have done ALOT more dps.

[shockpally]

Yes, ofc u can contribute with dps. You just can't contribute with enough. As alot of ppl have said:
- Shockadin is a great spec for people who don't want to maximize their potential in any role. -
If you were retribution you could have done ALOT more dps.

You are obviously confused as to what the various shockadin builds are. All that really separates a deep holy shockadin build from the typical healing build is a few talent points. They take all of the standard healing talents.

There are other builds. If you dont need beacon such as in arean then there really is not difference in healing without it either. They wear the same gear.

Stop being an ass.

[Brakaa]

Ya, im thinkin it would work good. Admittedly shockadin is one of the specs blizzard dislikes, much like the old DK specs that didnt go past 41 pt talents in any tree. And we saw what happend to them. They all got nerfed.

Being that 2k sp is easy in 25 man gear. and our spells get more benefit from sp then ap (as holy, i know ret gets sp from ap) I think these buffs would be great. Also it gives me the means of convincing the guild that Im first in line for the Legendary mace. lol

If a shockadin is first in line for a legendary mace I would quit the guild, maybe even the game.

How much dps do you do in raids?

[Firecrest]

And how would you know if he couldnt have been successful? Your narrow minded view of what YOU think works is just that. YOUR oppinion. You never even gave him a chance and that is what is sad.

You don't have to test everything out to know it's bad. If I tell you that my shit don't stink are you seriously saying that you would believe me up until you got down there and got your nose in it yourself?

In BC i ran the 40/00/21 build. I always healed instances. On 2 separate occations i was in late night pugs and we had 1 healer too many. So i volunteered to switch out to dps. I threw on my lamellar and did competent viable dps. I just had to drink more often.

I currently run a 52/00/19 build and i can heal anything and quest/solo/farm without any problems. I can certainly do enough respectable damage to be a viable contributer to any instance run dpsing. It isnt like every instance has waves and waves of mobs like VH.

Wow, really? Two whole times your crappy dps abilities were called upon. What about all the dozens of other times when you were pumping out sub-par heals?

If you're healing with a bad build, you could do better with a good one. If you're dpsing with a bad build you could do better with a good one. I really don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. If you are supposed to be healing and you put even just one point into abilities that increase your dps, you are failing at your role.

Until you can show that two Shockadins combined can do more healing and more dps than one Holy and one Ret combined, this spec will have no place in a raid. You want the best in every raid. You owe it to the other 24 people there to be performing at your peak at all times. This build does not do that.

[fex]

Until you can show that two Shockadins combined can do more healing and more dps than one Holy and one Ret combined, this spec will have no place in a raid. You want the best in every raid. You owe it to the other 24 people there to be performing at your peak at all times. This build does not do that.

^ That.

Shock is awesome in PvP, but it simply cannot pull its weight with healing OR dps in serious raids.

PVE is about maximizing your potential in a single role (tanking, healing, or sustained DPS), and the shockadin spec is about balancing your potential across SEVERAL roles (survivability, clinch healing, and burst damage). Two completely opposite concepts.

With that said, you're the one paying to play this game: play it however you want to. Just don't be surprised if the 24 other paying customers in your raid group decide to find someone else. :]

[RestoRiven]

It isnt like every instance has waves and waves of mobs like VH.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Mutin]

It isnt like every instance has waves and waves of mobs like VH.

Hahhaha
Blizzard obviously made VH to make Shockadins none-viable for PvE xD

[Varius]

Yeah, shockadin is great for solo queing for Bgs, get a group of tards that dont cover you... just become that 15th or so dps. Its good for 5 mans, but you have to do alot of drinking and always have DP on cooldown which reduces any healing you try to do. And depending on your team makeup it can be good for 2v2 and 3v3 to bring the pain when your team is topped off and theirs is hurting.

But for raids shockadin doesnt bring enough sustainable dps to be worth using on bosses and the horrible mana efficiency means you miss some of the trash just due to drinking.

[Varaben]

Ignore the mindless drivel like this.

Try what you want, and do your best to maximize it.

If Shockadin becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a weird melee hunter spec becomes viable DPS, the game will be better for it.

If a tanking mage spec becomes viable, the game will be better for it.

Variety is a good thing, stop trying to squelch it so your e-peen can get a nice stroking.

Nobody really cares about you or your electronic ego, so please, pretty please, go DIAF unless you can provide something constructive and useful for the game.

Kthxbai.

Theres way too many IFs in there that will never come true. IF we had a neverending bubble we could be a lot better off in pvp. You might as well say that because all those things you posted are equally as likely.

edit: also to the OP. You make it sound like shockadin was viable at some point in the past. It was ok in pvp in VERY specific comps. For PvE dps if you really wanted to do it you would have to spec something like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9614

Theres no healing talents really, but honestly, as long as you have illumination you are gonna be fine for healing. Depending on how much +hit you could get and how much mana problems you would have it might be better to swap out the 4% chance to hit and drop holy guidance to 3/5 to get JotW. If you have unlimited mana (which you probably will) then this spec is more dps.

[tjanson]

And how would you know if he couldnt have been successful? Your narrow minded view of what YOU think works is just that. YOUR oppinion. You never even gave him a chance and that is what is sad.

In BC i ran the 40/00/21 build. I always healed instances. On 2 separate occations i was in late night pugs and we had 1 healer too many. So i volunteered to switch out to dps. I threw on my lamellar and did competent viable dps. I just had to drink more often.

I currently run a 52/00/19 build and i can heal anything and quest/solo/farm without any problems. I can certainly do enough respectable damage to be a viable contributer to any instance run dpsing. It isnt like every instance has waves and waves of mobs like VH.

I'm not sure why I'm trying to convince you of this, because I'm pretty sure you're too emotionally invested in this to be impartial. That said, I think we're talking about two different things.

I have no doubt that a competent player could put together a shockadin spec for farming or questing, and still be able to heal any heroic, ten man, or even do an okay job in a 25 man raid. However, the same player with a true healing spec, with appropriate gear, will do far better, which means you're not maximizing your potential in that role. That means that other people are picking up your slack, and in any good raiding guild, that means you get replaced.

As far as dps goes, I can state with no doubts that you'll never, EVER beat a good player with a real dps spec. The reasons for this are many, but I'll mention the biggest ones: You have no +hit talents, aside from deep holy, and that's only for Judgements. You have no threat reduction talents. No real aoe. You bring no buffs or debuffs that a true Ret or Holy wouldn't bring. And you can't compete with either of them in their given roles.

By all means, keep trying to make this fail spec work. But trying to force other people to accept it and carry you through content is selfish. Good luck with that.

[Varaben]

The wording on enlightened judgements makes it sound like its 4% chance to hit with all spells. It says range on judgement by 20 yards and chance to hit by 4%. It makes sense if its only judgements, but it could be everything. Not that it makes the spec viable, but :P.

[fex]

The wording on enlightened judgements makes it sound like its 4% chance to hit with all spells. It says range on judgement by 20 yards and chance to hit by 4%. It makes sense if its only judgements, but it could be everything. Not that it makes the spec viable, but :P.

This is correct.

Repentance-specced PvP hybrids often gem to 5% hit to make up for this lost hit bonus (missing a Stun/Repent can be a game-ender in 2k+ arena), further gimping their healing.

[shockpally]

You don't have to test everything out to know it's bad. If I tell you that my shit don't stink are you seriously saying that you would believe me up until you got down there and got your nose in it yourself?

Wow, really? Two whole times your crappy dps abilities were called upon. What about all the dozens of other times when you were pumping out sub-par heals?

If you're healing with a bad build, you could do better with a good one. If you're dpsing with a bad build you could do better with a good one. I really don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. If you are supposed to be healing and you put even just one point into abilities that increase your dps, you are failing at your role.

Until you can show that two Shockadins combined can do more healing and more dps than one Holy and one Ret combined, this spec will have no place in a raid. You want the best in every raid. You owe it to the other 24 people there to be performing at your peak at all times. This build does not do that.

So why is 37/00/34 doing So well in arena? Because somebody tried it and was successful enough to generate interest in it.

With a 40/00/21 build i healed up into ZA. Due to playtime restrictions i would have been successful anywhere else also. With A 52/00/19 build i heal just as well as any cookie cutter raid healing spec and do better damage.

As far as raiding goes of course you want to have a holy and ret on boss fights. From level 70-80 and pre raiding a deep holy Beacon shockadin build is superior to any cookie cutter spec.