Retribution in 3.1

[Nienor]

Seems like what we get in 3.1 is
1) An awful-looking T8
2) A 7% crit nerf to our main dmg-dealing spell
3) A 10% nerf to our only and already weak DoT
4) Exorcism on all mobs. (rofl)
5) Some more free talents that we cant spend them in a useful way (pve-wise)
6) 2 new glyphs non of which increases the damage of a retribution skill.
(glyph of exorcism and glyph of DS)

I'm not an expert in numbers but i know a few things. We're currently on the last dps spots in a raid. Do you guys thing that these changes will do anything to help us with that?
I mean exorcism? come on... what are they thinking ...... ;( My only hope is that these arent final (even though i dont think they'll change much till the actual release of the patch )

[Meebo]

This thread is just what these forums needed.

[Jasunizer]

Seems like what we get in 3.1 is
1) An awful-looking T8
2) A 7% crit nerf to our main dmg-dealing spell
3) A 10% nerf to our only and already weak DoT
4) Exorcism on all mobs. (rofl)
5) Some more free talents that we cant spend them in a useful way (pve-wise)
6) 2 new glyphs non of which increases the damage of a retribution skill.
(glyph of exorcism and glyph of DS)

I'm not an expert in numbers but i know a few things. We're currently on the last dps spots in a raid. Do you guys thing that these changes will do anything to help us with that?
I mean exorcism? come on... what are they thinking ...... ;( My only hope is that these arent final (even though i dont think they'll change much till the actual release of the patch )

glyph of DS doesnt increase damage but healing...

[xdwbx]

Maybe you are currently on the last dps spots in raids, but I'm not and I can assure you that there are a lot of other ret paladins out there that arent. Don't worry about it, Blizz will take care of us.

[Leinho]

We're currently on the last dps spots in a raid.

Not really, we may not be top but we're certainly not last. We're a hybrid class so the pure dps classes beat us. Which I'm fine with. We bring other things to the raid.

[Mutin]

Not really, we may not be top but we're certainly not last. We're a hybrid class so the pure dps classes beat us. Which I'm fine with. We bring other things to the raid.

Well, as it is right now the "pure dps classes" gets all the utility that retribution have. Mages, Warlocks and Hunters has/gets replenishment, rogues got tricks of the trade, Mages have int buff, warlocks spirit- and healthbuffs.
Blizzard is slowly bringing retripaladins down to TBC-level again..

[Soad0488]

Dont lose sleep over it.

It wont break us by any means, and who knows maybe we will geet a new talent for thoese 6 or so talent points we get from skill reducing.

And 3/4 of the colors for our t8 is by no means bad.

[Veliane]

Seems like what we get in 3.1 is
1) An awful-looking T8
2) A 7% crit nerf to our main dmg-dealing spell
3) A 10% nerf to our only and already weak DoT
4) Exorcism on all mobs. (rofl)
5) Some more free talents that we cant spend them in a useful way (pve-wise)
6) 2 new glyphs non of which increases the damage of a retribution skill.
(glyph of exorcism and glyph of DS)

I'm not an expert in numbers but i know a few things. We're currently on the last dps spots in a raid. Do you guys thing that these changes will do anything to help us with that?
I mean exorcism? come on... what are they thinking ...... ;( My only hope is that these arent final (even though i dont think they'll change much till the actual release of the patch )

I don't usually sit and cry about things that happen in the first phase, of a test server, about a video game.

Yet I'm surprised about the PvE only nerfs when they said they wanted to up our damage a little to match the other classes.

Who knows, it's a little too early - What I know is they left a buttload of points and places to make new talents after all they've deleted/merged, and I'm pretty sure they're aware of that.
But I did hear they're going to add something awesome to CS.

Also the set doesn't look that bad, the white and the rusty one look pretty decent actually, worst case scenario, put a tabard on and hide helmet.

[Jynn]

As long as ret paladins have replenishment their guaranteed a raid spot.

[belfpala]

I'm just confused.

1. They give us exorcism on the logic that we won't do enough damage to non-undead mobs.
2. Then they nerf two dps talents at the same time.

Hmm. Admittedly the changes to the two talents are a small nerf... probably 2-3% DPS as an estimate without bothering to do the math. And I don't know what the exorcism changes do to make up for it yet either.

See what happens, I guess.

I'd love to go try some things out on the PTR, but I'm crashing out of it within 20 seconds of logging on every time. :-[

[Veliane]

As long as ret paladins have replenishment their guaranteed a raid spot.

Hate to break it but eveyone and their dog will or can do that now.

Not to be pessimistic, only to show you blizzard really meant 'bring the player'; unfortunately it's looking a tad shady for some classes like paladins who relied a bit on it but like i said.
First phase, Test Server, Game.

[belfpala]

Hate to break it but eveyone and their dog will or can do that now.

Not to be pessimistic, only to show you blizzard really meant 'bring the player'; unfortunately it's looking a tad shady for some classes like paladins who relied a bit on it but like i said.
First phase, Test Server, Game.

The point of a test server is to, you know, test stuff. And then hopefully comment on it in a useful way.

Has anyone done the math on the two talent nerfs, and whether exorcism autocrit (or usefulness on a non-undead) balances that?

[Jynn]

Hate to break it but eveyone and their dog will or can do that now.

Not to be pessimistic, only to show you blizzard really meant 'bring the player'; unfortunately it's looking a tad shady for some classes like paladins who relied a bit on it but like i said.
First phase, Test Server, Game.

I suppose it all depends on the uptimes that said classes can provide, also doesn't speccing for replenishment as a warlock mean diving into the destro tree which is currently a big bag of fail for pve/p at the mo...
I do agree tho it seems that class "unique-ness" is going out the window these days

[Leinho]

Well, as it is right now the "pure dps classes" gets all the utility that retribution have. Mages, Warlocks and Hunters has/gets replenishment, rogues got tricks of the trade, Mages have int buff, warlocks spirit- and healthbuffs.
Blizzard is slowly bringing retripaladins down to TBC-level again..

We still have Replenishment, Swift Retribution (3% haste buff) and Sanctified Retribution (3% dmg buff). Divine Storm gives a small heal to the other melee, and if you have a CD available, you can throw out an instant Flash of Light. Plenty of nice things remain.

And even though all paladins get Kings as base spell, I expect us to still bring it to the raid so Prot pallies can use Sanctuary and Holy pallies can use Wisdom.

Other classes may provide similar buffs, but not all of those buffs are brought by 1 class.

[Leinho]

I do agree tho it seems that class "unique-ness" is going out the window these days

That is indeed true, classes are becoming more equal every patch.

Then again, in TBC guilds were bringing Shamans in greens to T6 content, just to have another heroism in the raid. That sucked and pushed out many good geared players in favor of a crappy geared player bringing a unique buff. By bringing the classes more together and making buffs raid wide, this is hopefully not the case anymore.

[belfpala]

Other classes may provide similar buffs, but not all of those buffs are brought by 1 class.

This is true.

Additionally, you still want 4 paladins in a 25 man (for Sanc, Kings, Might, and Wisdom full buffs).

That's more than the share any other class gets by their design.

Still wondering if anyone has done the math on whether the two DPS talent nerfs are balanced or surpassed by the exorcism change.

[Kimlil]

This is gay

I've got my great retri gear [dual spec]

and now they just nerfed retri palas.... :-\

[belfpala]

and now they just nerfed retri palas.... :-\

We don't know that until someone does the math on the changes to the two talents vs. the change to exorcism.

The sky is not falling. Yet.

[Veliane]

The point of a test server is to, you know, test stuff. And then hopefully comment on it in a useful way.

Has anyone done the math on the two talent nerfs, and whether exorcism autocrit (or usefulness on a non-undead) balances that?

Not saying people don't have the right to test and comment, just that some make it out to be like it's the end of the world and not saying anything worthy, then spreading memes like Class X is composed of whiners.. You understand?

About the dps nerf, depends on the gear goes from 3 to 6%, don't have any math to back it right now but I remember seeing it somewhere, but if true, Wtb 5 stacks Vengeance.

Btw Leinho is right - One thing I forgot while talking about loosing unique-ness on replenishment, our aura seems to be the strongest out there by far (3% damage, 3% haste and 300 ticks) and doesn't have to conflict other buffs.

[Jynn]

Im sure once the servers are back up a few people can come back with some raw figures and we can go from there
If our dps is going to drop by 3-6% as Stevet is suggesting then would'nt the perfect solution be to increase vengeance stacks from 3 to 5 then our tooltip wont be failing, blizzard would be killing 2 birds with 1 stone.