Unholy DPS 3.1 ideas (throwin stuff around)

[Septigo]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9614

thats what im thinking. i know its nothing new but i took 2/5 nec and 3/3 BCB cause from my experience BCB > Nec for the points cost.

PS IT BS BS SS Dump > SS SS SS Dump

Also thinking about taking Epidemic and IMP UP and trying this out

PS IT BS BS SS Dump (horn maybe) > SS PS PS SS Dump

the OPness of PS might make this pretty good. idk just thinking

Tell me what you guys think or tell me im an idiot (nicely please )

[Beachbum]

Rotation is solid and the talent build is good though I seriously doubt that 5/5 desecration is worth not getting 2 points in Imp UHP. I'm annoyed at the auras being taken away, but the movement speed in blood pres or the rune refresh reduction in UHP, good stuff in effectively all circumstances.

That said though I'm not sure Desecration is that good anyway as DPS, too many fights require movement, though a PS-spammy rotation would obviate that I suspect SS will always have priority over PS regardless of how good PS might be theoretically. SS on PTR currently is really good.

Epidemic's being worthwhile is entirely dependent on rotation length, but since the base is getting buffed to 15 seconds it's questionable.

[Malamis]

Desecration is clearly a waste imo, due to the fact that you would simply spam SS as much as possible, unless the glyph is changed. More points in epidemic might not be so bad, due to the fact that you would have a higher chance of your SS resetting the diseases. I have an idea that BB > BS after the change tho.

Also wondering if 2/2 RPM would be better than 2h spec, due to the extra death coil now and then, especially with the new UB glyph adding an extra 10 seconds, giving you more room for DC spam.

[Septigo]

yeah i understand the epidemic thing is screwin a lot of stuff up.. i did some math today and found that with imp UP and epidemic you had too much time where no runes were up.

that said Blood could be fun with a rotation like the one i posted in the 3.1 Blood Topic. this ALL depends though on PS being this OP live which i doubt but it would be kinda fun considering how little it was used before.

Edit. I mostly put Des in there for Epeen bosses but yeah i understand the general uselessness of desec. (thought i cant really flaunt Epeen on the DPS meters due to DPS being my offspec w/ no betrayer )

[Shamb]

ImUP sucks guys... we took it before simply because a 15% speed AURA was better then wasting pts in desecration.

No Desecration has been buffed and outbreak is a must... so ImUP is a total and complete waste of pts. Also I would take epidemic anytime, since with it you have more chances of refreshing your disease with SS glyph and smoother /better rotation at large.

[Bullshifter]

What Shamb said. I also wouldn't prioritize BcB over Necrosis personally- Necrosis contributes more from what I've seen, and BcB has the potential to not be as effective anymore, considering even in BP, with Bloodlust and the haste you are generally forced to wear on your gear you will end up with a weapon speed under 3 secs quite a bit.

I also don't see Desecration being any more useful in a 2H raiding build than it was before, perhaps less so, with the increased disease length giving you even more opportunities to refresh diseases with Glyph of Scourge Strike. I'm definitely not going to some PS spam spec (yeck!) unless it is just insurmountably better than SS, which isn't evident so far.

[Deleted]

Insect swarm glyph seems quite poor compared to the other options available. Assuming your other 2 slots will be spent on standard SS and ghoul,

With T7 bonuses RP generation seems to be around 80 per 10 seconds in unholy, 480 per minute.

In 1 minute:

No glyphs: 120 RP spent on maintaing UB, leaving RP for 9 DCs (360/40)
UB glyph: 80 RP spent on maintaining UB, leaving RP for 10 DCs (400/40)
DC Glyph: 120RP spent on maintaining UB, leaving RP for 11.25 DCs (360/32)

That's discounting the new pest glyph too, allowing you to refresh all diseases for a blood rune. Although currently, replacing a PS+IT+BS for an SS isn't that attractive, I think it's optimistic to think PS is staying as it is.

[Bullshifter]

Insect swarm glyph seems quite poor compared to the other options available.

Err..I'd have to agree that Insect swarm glyph is a terrible idea for a DK...

Unless it's been changed to be useful for more than one class that is.

edit- just realized that you are referring to Unholy Blight glyph, lol...and thanks for the break down, I was probably going to go with the DC glyph myself as well.

[z8472]

so my thoughts would be the following, standard rotation but instead of relying on the unreliable SS glyph I'd be using I'd use the new pestilence glyph and than the UB DC and ghoul glyphs. The new pestilance glyph lets me trade one blood strike to refresh diseases small price to pay imo. I would love to believe that the pest glyph would remain a minor but that seems doubtful/OP. So in that case my glyphs would be UB DC and the pest glyph still I think this is an improvement over SS since this is guaranteed and not left to chance if anyone anyone wants to the math for this that'd be uber. My only concern with this is the fact that I'm wasting 3 points in subversion at this point, BS is already low on the list for dps and not taking it out of the roation once every 3.... I just don't see anywhere else in the frost tree to shift that would make up for losing dark conviction and bladed armour.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9614

[Renascent]

so my thoughts would be the following, standard rotation but instead of relying on the unreliable SS glyph I'd be using I'd use the new pestilence glyph and than the UB DC and ghoul glyphs.  The new pestilance glyph lets me trade one blood strike to refresh diseases small price to pay imo.  I would love to believe that the pest glyph would remain a minor but that seems doubtful/OP.  So in that case my glyphs would be UB DC and the pest glyph still I think this is an improvement over SS since this is guaranteed and not left to chance if anyone anyone wants to the math for this that'd be uber.  My only concern with this is the fact that I'm wasting 3 points in subversion at this point, BS is already low on the list for dps and not taking it out of the roation once every 3.... I just don't see anywhere else in the frost tree to shift that would make up for losing dark conviction and bladed armour.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...4&version=9614

What he said, really I'd almost go so far as to say that the SS glyph is obsolete now. Is there any kind of advantage to be gained from a 20% proc chance wasting a major glyph slot when there's now a minor glyph that does exactly the same thing, at the expense of a single blood rune? The lost dps from one blood strike is completely negligible and as a bonus, on AOE trash all your disease timers will sync up on primary and secondary targets now, making blood boil much easier to rotate in until another refresh (pestilence) is needed.

Edit: I actually drafted nearly the same spec (abandoning UP and the ghoul frenzy ability) but with 1 point in night of the dead instead of 2, the second point going into 2H spec in the blood tree. It still grants some avoidance, and with the timer reduction on Master of Ghouls already I don't really see the need for additional reduction. (There's usually 15 minutes or more between bosses anyways, for army). And 2H spec provides small gains to Necrosis, and BCB making it the better choice in my opinion. If I run into timer issues I'll reconsider, but right now I think 1 point might be sufficient (with splash healers, or just considerate ones ). Ghoul Frenzy just strikes me as a waste of an unholy rune that would be better served Scourge Striking. If it was blood, we might be able to talk.

[Deleted]

I would love to believe that the pest glyph would remain a minor but that seems doubtful/OP.

Despite using it since about level 60 I forgot there already was a pest glyph. This new pest glyph worries me, as I hope it's not meant as a replacement to the current one. I consider the current one almost mandatory. Spreading diseases is critical to the class's aoe capacity and the horribly short range of pestilence without the glyph seriously restricts that.

To have the current glyph replaced with a thing that refreshes diseases on one target isn't a nice prospect.

[Deleted]

Err..I'd have to agree that Insect swarm glyph is a terrible idea for a DK...

Unless it's been changed to be useful for more than one class that is.

Yeah I meant UB ^^ I'm trying to break the habit of calling it "locust swarm" although insect swarm is a new one.

[dotSeed]

Despite using it since about level 60 I forgot there already was a pest glyph. This new pest glyph worries me, as I hope it's not meant as a replacement to the current one. I consider the current one almost mandatory. Spreading diseases is critical to the class's aoe capacity and the horribly short range of pestilence without the glyph seriously restricts that.

To have the current glyph replaced with a thing that refreshes diseases on one target isn't a nice prospect.

Are you kidding me? So you have to run around a little more when you pull, or you have to yell at tanks to keep AOE mobs closer together. You're saving a Blood rune AND a global cooldown refreshing all your diseases on AOE groups compared to how it is at the moment.

[Deleted]

Are you kidding me? So you have to run around a little more when you pull, or you have to yell at tanks to keep AOE mobs closer together. You're saving a Blood rune AND a global cooldown refreshing all your diseases on AOE groups compared to how it is at the moment.

If the current pest glyph makes so little impact, I bet you don't use it. Right?

Think you missed the bit about plague strike doing significantly more damage now, so much so that plague strike spam is viable.

I dont think PS is staying at the damage it does now, but if it does, wasting a blood rune (pest does no damage) to replace a PS and an IT with a SS isn't much of a damage increase single target and not a damage increase at all for AoE, which is sort of the point of pest.

[Phokas]

BCB is awful. My recount tells me that it doesn't even do 2-2.5% of my damage where as a 5/5 Necrosis does closer to 5%-6%. Necrosis for better point return IMO.

[Batsmuggler]

Using pestilence to refresh diseases will leave you with 1 blood rune leaving you with a weak rotation surely? With an overpowered PS even without the glyph surely it would be better to use SS glyph and 2 BS so you get an extra SS? And if the glyph fails just renew diseases at little dps loss. Much like now.

[Nythiz]

People are severely overestimating the OPness of the new PS.

The glyph that adds 60% damage, only applies to the bonus damage not the actual strike.
I really doubt that 2x PS will be better than 1x SS in the end.

[biggydeen]

People are severely overestimating the OPness of the new PS.

The glyph that adds 60% damage, only applies to the bonus damage not the actual strike.
I really doubt that 2x PS will be better than 1x SS in the end.

Well have you seen the post about PS data in 3.1 ?
( cant find it atm )
PS crits nearly for 10k on a test dummy.

On the otherhand how do you know its only 60% to the periodic dmg/bonus dmg ?
ITs not weapon dmg as many people claim but how can it crit for nearly 10k while now it hardly crits for 2k ?

Anway can speculate, we just have to wait till the official patch is here. they might still nerf things.

Keeping the above in mind, why would anyone take the SS glyph ?
PS hits really hard atm and icw IT you cannot take this out of your rotation to reapply deseases.

The initial dmg from PS and IT combined is more then 1 SS, thus making the SS glyph obsolete.
(although i havnt seen numbers from ss yet)

[Bullshifter]

This is from Fugazor over at EJ (though I do realize this is just one person, but I tend to feel it more accurate than the general "OMG PS is doing 10k damage leetzors!!1!" stuff- I think those are abnormal numbers"

Quick numbers from Silvermoon heroic dummy on PTR with 17/0/54 and Sigil of Awarness:
(skill - avg. hit / avg. crit)
SS - 3300 / 7850
PS - 1350 / 3300
IT - 950 / 2100

It seems that PS glyph works only on additional damage not weapon damage. Tooltip says "72 to 73% plus 395" with 3/3 Outbreak and PS glyph and above numbers seems to confirm that. Question is: intended or bugged?

It does appear that currently the PS glyph is only modifying the "additional" damage, not the entire damage, in which case it's still in our best interest to keep pretty much our current rotations. I can't imagine that it's Blizz's intent to replace Deep Unholy's "special" strike with PS spam. And even though it's a pretty loose rotation in the first place, I like the SS spam that will allow me lots of extra cooldowns for those sexeh 32 RP Death Coils. Getting into single rune usage ablities more heavily might eat into that. lol...

[z8472]

The big reason for my original post was taking advantage of the two new glyphs that being the UB and DC ones. And I don't really care about how much PS is getting buffed it's almost irrelevant to the fact that you can use one blood rune (that still turns into a death rune afterwards) to guarantee your diseases stay up rather than having to refresh them or rely on SS. BUT saying that they've up'd the duration on are dots. With epidemic were now looking at 21s between disease refreshes, which begs the question is this enough time to get more glyphed SS strikes in that the pestilence glyph isn't worth it. This of course only matters if the new pestilence glyph is a major if it's still a minor glyph there is no way I'm going to be using glyph of SS when I can use a minor glyph instead we've just got to many PvE dps glyphs to choose from.

Also ghoul frenzy is now instant cast. I for one still don't see myself putting a point into a skill for my ghoul that's gonna break my rotations specially since in the new build I might be dropping glyph of the ghoul. Thoughts?