More Math - feral DPS changes

[Bergenia]

I don't think it's everlasting rip. It's basically the same as the t7 bonus + rip glyph adding 6 seconds.

Hehe I know that Just meant that since Rip now can last for much longer there will be room for more Ferocius Bites, but I'm curious just how much that will affect dps. Since it's no way we can have all the cat talents we want I'm trying to figure out which ones to leave out.

[arel00]

I will try to do some tests when it's possible.
At the present time testing complex rotations on the PTR is out of discussion due to the Mangle bug (see above).

Hopefully a hotfix or the next PTR build will fix the bug. When that happens, I'll be testing how much we can rely on Bite.

Btw: got my hands on the Shred glyph, still looking for the Savage Roar one.
If any of you finds an Inscriber that can make the SR glyph on the EU Brill PTR realm, please mail either a) the glyph with a C.O.D. or b) the name of the Inscriber to Allania.

[khanthal]

If bite is truely mainline now I would consider this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9626

Loses mobility in swiftness and charge but gains even more bite damage.

[Surfd]

Not sure if you consider it giving out trade secrets or the like, and there by off limits, but any chance you could toss out an Armory Link to your character arl00?

I noticed that you mention that you used your gear as a baseline in the first post, but not knowing what your gear is like sort of throws one off when trying to see how oneself might stack up.

[arel00]

Eh, it's not a secret, but I did avoid any armory link so far. The reason is quite simple: there's a tendency to weight one's words based on his gear/guild/server lately, and I personally think that they should be considered by their meaning, not by who is saying them. This goes both ways, my tank gear is at BiS level and dps gear is from 25men raids, but that doesn't make me any better than a full green druid with an extraordinary insight on the game.

Beside that, the problem is you'll have to be lucky to see the correct gear form my armory link. Usually it's my tank gear showing, and even that may change depending on what I fought and how I adjusted the gear :P

To solve it, I'll simply list the gear :P

Helm of the Vast Legions - 21agi 3%crit damage Meta, 16str gem, Arcanum of Torment
Favor of the Dragon Queen - 8str 12sta gem
Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads - 16str gem, no enchant (yet)
Cloak of Mastery - 22agi enchant
Valorous Dreamwalker Rainments - 16agi gem, 8hit/8exp gem, 10stats enchant
Cuffs of Dark Shadow - Strinking enchant
Valorous Dreamwalker Handgrips - 16agi gem, 20agi enchant
Belt of the Tortured - 16str gem on the Belt Buckle
Valorous Dreamwalker Legguards - 2x16str gems, Icescale Leg Armor
Boots of the Neverending Path - Assault enchant
Ruthlessness - Assault enchant
Strong Handed Ring - Assault enchant
Mirror of Truth
Grim Toll
Journey's End - Berserk enchant
Idol of Worship

That's it at the moment.

[mielikinna]

I appreciate that the numbers you are putting out are coming from a pure dps spec.

Ideally, you have another source of the mangle debuff, an arms warrior or another feral druid, allowing you to spec as follows:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9626

I would choose Glyph of Rip, Glyph of Shred, Glyph of Savage Roar.

I consider Glyph of Berzerk suboptimal for feral dps, as I consistently end berzerk with zero energy as it is, increasing its duration lets me get off at most one more shred.

Without another mangle source, I would recommend Glyph of Mangle over Glyph of Rip - The reasoning is that Rip is a 4 second duration increase, shred is a 6 second duration increase.

The increase in the percentage of our damage coming from bleeds also devalues armor penetration, making it more likely that we won't want grim toll in our gearset, getting the hit from elsewhere on our gear and stacking AP/Crit trinkets.

[arel00]

The spec is definitely worth a try if you have another source of Mangle. As if you it yourself, I'm finding that it's not that hard to keep it up un-glyphed, it seems to make it somewhat more regular.

When Mangle gets fixed on PTR I'll try a fixed rotation like this:

Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> SR -> Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> Rip -> Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> Bite

Rinse and repeat. It's purely a speculation at the moment, but I'll see what can be done when I can finally USE Mangle and get CPs properly.

[getefix]

The spec is definitely worth a try if you have another source of Mangle. As if you it yourself, I'm finding that it's not that hard to keep it up un-glyphed, it seems to make it somewhat more regular.

When Mangle gets fixed on PTR I'll try a fixed rotation like this:

Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> SR -> Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> Rip -> Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> Bite

Rinse and repeat. It's purely a speculation at the moment, but I'll see what can be done when I can finally USE Mangle and get CPs properly.

Along with that, would you mind doing a burst run on a training dummy? perhaps 3 mins including 1 berserk, tigers fury when avail, faerie fire, etc? I'd like to see what we're capable of doing on a boss self buffed.

[Lathios]

The spec is definitely worth a try if you have another source of Mangle. As if you it yourself, I'm finding that it's not that hard to keep it up un-glyphed, it seems to make it somewhat more regular.

When Mangle gets fixed on PTR I'll try a fixed rotation like this:

Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> SR -> Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> Rip -> Mangle-Rake-Shred++ -> Bite

Rinse and repeat. It's purely a speculation at the moment, but I'll see what can be done when I can finally USE Mangle and get CPs properly.

I'm just curious, SR increases our Rake significantly, would there be a more optimal spot to put Rake in after the SR and be able to keep everything up?

[Elunedra]

If bite is truely mainline now I would consider this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9626

Loses mobility in swiftness and charge but gains even more bite damage.

yeh seems good but u can drop IloP since it doesnt increase our dps at all its a god buff to have but in the end of the day its all abut the dmg meter :

when u drop it u can go or charge / +15% speed or something

[mielikinna]

As I do it now,

Mangle -> SR ->Rake, Shred to 5 CP, Rip if SR has >2 seconds, SR otherwise.

This gets you to either having SR'd rip up and repeating the above rotation, or having a 5CP SR to build CP's and Rip.

And to say this is a rotation is a bit misleading, as you rake when you have to in order to refresh it, same with mangle, its not a set order. The whole idea is to get mangle and SR up before raking.

[arel00]

I'm just curious, SR increases our Rake significantly, would there be a more optimal spot to put Rake in after the SR and be able to keep everything up?

Regarding this question: yes it would be better to use Rake after SR is up. I should have specified it sorry, I was stating an ongoing rotation, not the starting point. It's always convenient to start with a Mangle immediately followed by SR, and then proceed.

I'm firguring it like this: Mangle->SR->Rake-Shred++->SR (this time at full duration)->Mangle-Rake-Shred++ etc etc
Of course insert TF and Berserk as appropriate. This is still speculation anyway, I lack the SR glyph and a fix on the Mangle bug before I can check if it's viable.

Along with that, would you mind doing a burst run on a training dummy? perhaps 3 mins including 1 berserk, tigers fury when avail, faerie fire, etc? I'd like to see what we're capable of doing on a boss self buffed.

I did. I posted it earlier in the thread, but I'll just sum it up again here for convenience.
Situation: Mangle+Rip glyphs (I didn't have the Shred one yet), a 5 minutes fight allowing Berserk twice, TF every cooldown, FF with 100% uptime.
On Live: 2800dps
On PTR: 3500dps

I'll try it again soon with the Shred glyph active, and then again if/when I can get the SR one. Take into account that the PTR dps is actually lower than it should, because of Mangle generating no CPs, or 1CP when it crits.

[Surfd]

I understand what you mean by people discounting your stuff based on armory links, however, I would like to say thanks for the gear list. It is immensely helpful to be able to compare your gear vs my gear (somewhat worse, since I have collected mostly tank focused / enchanted stuff, rather then good DPS pieces) and see if my comparative dps is standing up (I think i am currently a little low dps wise relatively speaking).

[arel00]

No problem. Also I know your situation, I've been focusing on tank gear as priority since WotLK launch, and only recently collected dps gear. Yuo'll just have to work a bit on that and then do a couple sessions to get used to the cat rotation. While very complex in words, it becomes quite easy when you become used to the skill order.

I just want to point out one thing tho: take the relative values more than the absolute ones. It's true we may say we "need" to breach, 4k, 5k, or 6k dps, but since we're talking about changes, the most important part is how much it goes up from Live to PTR. I'm sure there are druids out there that do a way higher dps than me :P

[axxey]

Do you have math handy for 4pc t7 bonus? (I see you're using) wasn't very active paying attention in my feral side when they bought it in.

[furyform]

Do you have math handy for 4pc t7 bonus? (I see you're using) wasn't very active paying attention in my feral side when they bought it in.

I still don't find much worth in that 4piece bonus vs the sheer stats we can obtain with other items. 3 seconds off a 30 second cooldown is nice, but we have to burn energy down past 40 before tigers fury is worth using and only half the time do I find myself using it exactly as it comes up. I prefer to get a finisher off and pop it right after, currently most often right after a ferocious bite or at a time where rip and savage roar are timing down within a couple seconds of eachother.