Anyone else considering retireing as tank?

[Elunedra]

i am on PTR i have done compesation

yeh i already suc on live in TPS / stamina
i get 5K tps of live in full dps gear then i have only 25K hp

so i realy cannot loose any more

as for back to topic:

what i liked abotu bear was our hgih stamina / armror / dodge. i haved lived in the wonderfull we had in BC whit high armor leather and such

but i am sick of getting nerfed and nerfed i am seriusly considering of gonig full dps since these nerfs have hit my hard enough already.

[arel00]

i am on PTR i have done compesation

yeh i already suc on live in TPS / stamina
i get 5K tps of live in full dps gear then i have only 25K hp

so i realy cannot loose any more

No. If you do 5k TPS with full DPS gear, it's not that you are stretching your class' limits and you can't lose anymore. It's just time that you learn how to play a bear.
I'm wearing full tank gear, 44k health raidbuffed (which is 6k more than a BiS warrior), 46% dodge raidbuffed, and I sit at around 6,5k-7k TPS constantly.

This is not TBC anymore. Stop living in dreams, get down here and learn how your class works in WotLK. There is nothing more to say. If you have to gimp your stats THAT much, in order to do THAT threat, you're doing it wrong. Period.

[k0102]

to the OP..

you are right in at least 1 thing..

they are dumbening down tanking (And the whole game)

why the hell dont even have to use CC (crowd control.. most peepz dont even know what CC, the most common term in vanilla wow) means... ffs!

if we dont need seduce, banish, shackle, trap, sap and offtank in instances (even simple 5 mans).. where is the sport in not wiping??

[Gilthoniel]

These changes suck, I cant imagine my RL picking me as a tank for ulduar.... Ill be forced to be fucking kitty till they realize we are fucked up.

Worst avoidance - Fact
And now there is nothing in change for our bad avoidance.

*NERDRAGE ON*

If druids slip behind as a result of lack of mitigation, avoidance or cooldowns, we will buff them.

WE ALREADY DO YOU GOD DAMNED CRAWLING IDIOT!!!!!!!! AND YOUR SAVAGE DEFENSE WONT FIX US BECAUSE ITS CRAP.
*nerdrage off*

Savage defense is just compensation (crappy one) for our armor loss and makes us more dependent on RNG.
IDK if they dont boost our avoidance I will have to go resto or whatever .... :-X

[arel00]

Savage Defense has been modeled by many people already. On boss fights, it is a buff on everything exept Patchwerk. It's not just my results, we all ended up at the same.

If you think we have crappy avoidance, think again about what you're gemming and enchanting. This is fucking Kara level, we're at the FIRST raid tier of the whole expansion, and at the present time, I already sit at 40.1% dodge + 7.7% miss, for a total of 47.8% avoidance, unbuffed. This is LOADS. It took deep T5 level in TBC to get there.
Kungen, you know, that Kungen, Ensidia's MT, sits at 50.4% dodge+parry+miss unbuffed. Big deal,he's at the highest possible gear available, and he won't gain as much dodge from raid buffs as we do, making us even when fully buffed. Surely he's a warrior thus he can block, but on Live we have way higher armor and health to compensate. Besides, Block is mitigation, not avoidance.
And with PTR, we will *still* have higher health, and we will get SR to compensate for the armor loss, making it our own "block" chance. Which will be not 18.7% like Kungen's block chance, but 35% chance to trigger. A chance that, unlikely block, will be higher form raid buffs.

If you think we're sub-par tank, think again. If there's a class that should whine about tanking it's warriors, and they still are held in high esteem becuase people are so blind that they think being a warrior automatically makes you a good tank.

If you tell me they're dumbing down tanking in general, I agree. But that we're sub par tanks? No. Unless of course you have to go full DPS gear to manage 5k threat, like Elunedra. In that case I'm sorry to inform you it's not the class, it's the player.

[Gilthoniel]

Ok sorry, maybe I was too upset about this nerf
Well I dont think Im bad player got 40.16 dodge unbuffed and 35k hp. I can pull pretty nice tps etc, but I just hate to be always the second choice for tanking.

[arel00]

Well, I don't know how things are in your guild, but from my experience, if a druid is relegated as 2nd choice now it's mainly due to people's own ideas, more than any game balancing.
Unless your guild MT is a paladin, then I can understand why you end up second. But I never made a secret that prot paladins are going to be THE main tank class for WotLK. However, that depends on them being so strong, more than all the other 3 classes being weak.

Said that, I *am* my guild's 2nd tank, while the "main tank" is a warrior. But that's a purely personal choice, since I can do a decent dps while not tanking, and he can't. We swapped positions many times, with me being maintank all the raid and he offtanking when needed. Beside Sartharion ofc... there he's relegated to whepls/elementals tanking, while me and a DK get Sartharion and the 3 drakes :P
To that extent, purely personal choices decided together, everything is normal. It's just friends playing together after all.

[Narshe]

I loved Druid tanking in BC, but since Wotlk has gone to no CC and all aoe, Druid (at least to me) has fallen behind the other tanks. It is too much of a headache for me to try and aoe to keep up with all the DPS spamming aoe abilities non stop. Swipe isnt bad dont get me wrong, but other tanks just have better aoe abilities IMHO.

So i decided to roll a DK, and man im loving it. Just 2 aoe spells is all i need to keep every single mob on me the whole time. Its so nice not worrying about mobs running past me and i can focus on my TPS instead.

So basically ya i retired my Druid as a tank, and trying something new. If someday Blizz decides to add some better abilities to Druids so they can compete ill consider going back. But it comes down to myself having fun and now i am.

[Dekool]

Don't think so. Sorry.

Possibly was playing another class. Possibly...

[ciddxx]

Oh noes you lose HP and Armor. Not only will you STILL have more HP than all other tanks you'll be getting even more as gear progresses. Not only will you STILL have tons of armor you will be getting more. The gear is so over itemized at this time that the gear down the road will just over gear tanks by an insane amount.

Druids don't excel in AE. That is a fact. Neither do warriors so well. So just like always paladins are the runner-ups followed by Frost Death Knights.

Not just you but all idiots that QQ about any incoming nerfs they aren't nerfs that won't allow you to DPS or nerfs that won't allow you to tank. They're nerfs to balance everyone because Blizzard has a new homogenized theory that we're all equal in Damage/Healing/Tanking no matter the class/spec we'll get the job done only different from others.

So you want to quit because all you care about is some nerfs directed at your class, then please go out and find a better game and report back to me its name because there are no current better games that can compete with WoW.

Tanking is fun and raiding is fun. All I care about is doing my job no matter the nerfs I'll still be able to do it. Your raid leader is also dumb if they make you tank AE groups instead of a pally. If you do your job and research your pros and cons of your class you can tell you Raid Leader or other tanks "Hey let so and so tank , he can do this giving a slight advantage"

And don't tell me Druids aren't used for tanking. I'm a paladin MT with a Warrior MT and we have a druid OT. That Druid tanks just about every fight including All Sarth3d kills. In Ulduar you will have more fights toned for you so get used to it. Druids were by far worse tanks in Pre-BC than now.

[neanoa]

You played an hybrid class for all this time, and never switched your spec?

It's hard to believe. Did you ever take some items for your heal, balance spec? Well.. maybe it's time to think about it, dual spec is coming too.

My druid has always been my main. And ofc I have switched specs if it was needed or I had desire to heal for a small period (in 5mans etc) - but since AQ i was first and foremost a feral tank - Pre-AQ I was resto in MC/BWL. And I didn't say we have are become worse than we were in vanilla - back then feral was more a hybrid (30/21) - I said since TBC I feel we are become worse.

For those non-believers btw: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-re...tulon&n=Neanoa (I started playing on US, and switched to EU after months after BWL was launched - hence the lack of Hydraxian rep). And you can already see on my spec, that I use for anything but OS3D (if I am mt), I've shifted more towards DPS'ing rather than tanking. When wotlk was first released and my guild was still learning encounters, I played full tank spec - but it just isn't needed for the little amount that I tank in 25mans these days.

And I fear that in Ulduar we won't be the best choice for tanking anything - I fear we will be the overall worst choice. I'm not a selfish person that would hold raidprogress back - if eg. warriors will overall be tanking less damage in a fight - and thus require less healing. Then by all means I would say he or she should tank while I do something else. And that's what makes me so "emo" - because as I see it that's going to happen. Bearbubble or not.

Threatgen isn't a big issue for any good tank. If all we have is slightly higher armor and slightly higher stamina, but require more healing - then I just don't see why others would use us over other tanks. I can only be as good as my character allow me to be - so saying be more skilled than the others won't help me much if the other tanks in my guilds aren't bleeding idiots

And to arel00: I am actually on PTR (Brill, EU). And once again I'm not complaining about swipe not being able to produce threat (or any of our other abilities), just stating that compared the abilities the other tanks have - it's a hassle. Try tanking with a warrior one day - it's much more fun then just making sure maul is active and pressing mangle every 5-6 sec, while in between you spam swipe so hard your fingers hurt by the end of raid. And don't forget the positional and target-requirement.

[neanoa]

So you want to quit because all you care about is some nerfs directed at your class, then please go out and find a better game and report back to me its name because there are no current better games that can compete with WoW.

Tanking is fun and raiding is fun. All I care about is doing my job no matter the nerfs I'll still be able to do it. Your raid leader is also dumb if they make you tank AE groups instead of a pally. If you do your job and research your pros and cons of your class you can tell you Raid Leader or other tanks "Hey let so and so tank , he can do this giving a slight advantage"

And don't tell me Druids aren't used for tanking. I'm a paladin MT with a Warrior MT and we have a druid OT. That Druid tanks just about every fight including All Sarth3d kills. In Ulduar you will have more fights toned for you so get used to it. Druids were by far worse tanks in Pre-BC than now.

No one talked about quitting the game, I think. Couldn't find it at least.

I agree tanking is fun, and it's both nice and scary sometimes with the weight of responsibility you get doing it.

And yes, my guild works like that. We talk about the fights and find out who would be the best choice for tanking a specific encounter. Everyone accepts that and are fine with it being that way. There has never been drama about anyone tanking instead of another. But I'm not sure how you figure Ulduar will have fights toned for us, but maybe I missed something.

PS: Try using a DK spec'ed for tanking via blood as the MT on OS3D

[RMJ]

No one talked about quitting the game, I think. Couldn't find it at least.

I agree tanking is fun, and it's both nice and scary sometimes with the weight of responsibility you get doing it.

And yes, my guild works like that. We talk about the fights and find out who would be the best choice for tanking a specific encounter. Everyone accepts that and are fine with it being that way. There has never been drama about anyone tanking instead of another. But I'm not sure how you figure Ulduar will have fights toned for us, but maybe I missed something.

PS: Try using a DK spec'ed for tanking via blood as the MT on OS3D

Doesnt blood tanking work for that or ? because the spec i like most as dps and as tanking is clearly blood

[Avadon]

PS: Try using a DK spec'ed for tanking via blood as the MT on OS3D

Try using an Unholy spec DK for your Sarth3D MT. Being able to live through 6+ worst-case scenario breaths using only the tank's own cooldowns seems tons better than a small hp boost with 50% uptime while having to rely on outside cooldowns. Yes, they get +healing taken too, but unholy taking less damage offsets that easily.

[Sqeez]

Thought i'd chime in being a warrior tank myself and a raid leader. I Generally always have me or the other prot warrior main tanking mosts things because our ferals enjoy dps'ing more than tanking.

But it seems to me that every tank class is whining about the differences in the classes. I know I have, after the tankspot post about the health issues between Druids / DK and Paladins and warriors. I think the only way they can stop this whining(i hate to say whining since most it is is grounded well, it's just people worrying about their raid spots, I know as a raid leader i constantly worry about a point where my raid would benefit more from not having me in the raid) is to go forward with homogenisation of the tank classes, and hope that the differences in play style make up for it.

Equal HP, avoidance (dodge, parry, miss) and mitigation (armor and block) is the first port of call. The threat numbers should be similar and the tanking / off-tanking dps should be similar within reason.
This just isnt viable. As many people will tell you the grass is always greener on the other side.
Myself I avoid block like the plague it's over budgeted and its usually a waste of time with me being my guilds MT. I then find myself in a situation where i'm basically a lower hp druid that does less threat and less armor with similar avoidance (perhaps slightly higher).

Fact of the matter is gearing, geming and enchanting doesnt bring flavor to the class. It's how the class is played, I don't run around naxx saying how lovely it is to block damage, I do enjoy how much concentration it requires me to pull off threat rotations. See the difference?

While I'm on a roll, I hate the new direction they seem to be forcing tanks into cooldown rotations to live. I hate the fact that I might have to have 2 completely nessacary glyphs to tank as well as other classes (vigilance and shield wall) and i hope they never see the light of day.

I'm done now. Just keep in mind that while your whining about certain issues the other tank classes don't see that as a problem and whine about your hp and armor.

[Porosity22]

I wouldn't worry about druid tanks. Currently I sit at 46k HP, 45% dodge, 6-8k AP in bear (depending on buffs). I maintain 6-9k TPS even after the mangle bug fix.

What people fail to realise is that first of all, this is just the PTR. Nothing is finalized. Second, if you only read the nerfs and ignore the buffs then you have a pretty good reason to reroll.

Savage defense is huge, I usually sit at around 40% crit? You have 3 abilities that can crit, 4 coming 3.1 (Primal Gore = Lacerate). This buff will likely have a 80-100% up time. So while our HP pool and armor is lowered, it is definetly compensated by this new ability.

And to people who have spots in a raid because of having large hp pools and high armor you're just unlucky that your RL doesn't know what he's talking about. Bring the player, not the class.

[carterbhm]

We are stupid OP vs the current easy content.
If you're wearing full tank gear in 25man naxx you're doing it wrong. Wear near full dps gear, still have over 30k armor and HP, high dodge.
Laugh and pity other tanks as you tear the place apart. No other tank remains crit immune wearing whatever they like, leaving us with our glyph of maul stupid overpowered.

Thats the issue the current content is easy according to blizzard. And it is not just Druids who are able to wear lots of DPS gear while tanking 25 man nax. Our guild runs with a DK, Warrior and Druid, and our DK uses mostly dps gear tanking except for patchwork. And our ret pally has been known to pop on some prot gear and tank when one of our tanks can't make it and is able to do well (specced ret). Any of our main tanks are able to tank this current contact with no issues, so where are the other classes nerfs. You have to remember as you get better gear content is supposed to get easier.

And what other tanking class is restricted to wearing gear which is optomized for rogues. With blizzard saying oh we will just change druids so the sorta work with this gear.

[arel00]

And to arel00: I am actually on PTR (Brill, EU). And once again I'm not complaining about swipe not being able to produce threat (or any of our other abilities), just stating that compared the abilities the other tanks have - it's a hassle. Try tanking with a warrior one day - it's much more fun then just making sure maul is active and pressing mangle every 5-6 sec, while in between you spam swipe so hard your fingers hurt by the end of raid. And don't forget the positional and target-requirement.

I do tank on a warrior too. I've been tanking on a paladin also in the past, and I'm levelling a DK and tanking as often as I can. In short, I love tanking and I played the 4 classes.

I agree. Warrior is more fun to tank with, druid's not even close. For that matter, paladin's not even close either, and prot paladins are the strongest tanks now. DK tanking is fun, but still can't beat warrior. I'm not talking about purely fun. As I said, if we talk about dumbing the tank skills, I agree. What I said it's that we're not falling behind in terms of efficiency. Never said anything about fun. They are two different things.

[Boringz]

I'm just afraid with this armor and hp buff that if u have a bad crit spree ur gnna drop dead becoz u dont mitigate anything and u dont have the hp anymore to survive that.. if a target has a shield which makes him immune u cant crit and u will pop dead shortly coz ur base mitigation is nerfed, this system is probably great if ur fighting a boss that has no special stuff.. but we all know there are bosses that have an immune phase and still dmg u, take sartharion for example, 2nd drake's disciple up, boss immune till disciple dead.. with this savage defense system a druid will never maintank sartharion 3d again.. unless they leave our health pool to normal

and this savage defense might be a tiny bit better for the healer, but its not better for the tank, with the hp buff a well geared feral druid loses about 3k hp, a savage defense crit will absorb about 1.5k-2k assumin u have 6k raid buffed. but seeing the fact that u lose about 4k armor aswell from the armor nerf I dont think a 35-45% chance shield will make up for the 3k hp and 4k armor lose, I think it wud have been a better idea to boost our dodge or make another mitigation talent thats just passive and not a proc.

And tbh, they want to bring our health pools all together, but I don't agree on that either.. every tanking class has something special, a warrior is a balanced tank with nice avoidance, a paladin is the best aoe tank, a dk is the best anti magic tank, a druid used to be the highest health tank.. so in my opinion if u take the health away a druid tank is back to offtank rank,

so yes, i prolly will retire as tank after this nerf.

[Ishmur]

Well, I think that Savage Defense should look more like this:

Savage Defense (level 40)
Each time you deal a melee critical strike, you gain Savage Defense, reducing the damage taken from the next physical attack that strikes you by 30% of your attack power while in Cat Form or by 15% of your armor while in Dire Bear Form. Savage Defenses cannot occur more than once every 5 seconds.

Assuming you have 28k armor, it would give you a 4.2k shield. I buffed the kitty part a little to compensate the cooldown. What do you think about this.

(BTW. can anyone explain me if the kitty's mangle on next attack is a buff or nerf?)